still trying, now separating

[still trying]

Ok well I think I have decided my course. The question is can I stick to it and not get discouraged again...

After my post we went out to dinner and had a great time. It kind of cemented in my mind what does actually work with W. We were talking and laughing and having fun, at one point I was rubbing her thigh and she told me that I had to stop otherwise we'd end up in bed together. That to me is a major sign that something I'm doing is working.

What was different? Confidence. I've been thinking about what I've always done in the M and what I've been doing lately. Obviously, since she wants a S whatever I've been doing hasn't been working. What I've been doing is not pursuing, giving her space, trying to pretend I'm not affected by what she's doing, acting as if, etc. Basic DB stuff. It's gotten me nowhere.

DB says no pursuing. But it also says to do 180's and do something different. I have NEVER pursued W. When we met, she pursued me. Heavily. I was hesitant, she knew what she wanted and went after it. During our entire M, I've kind of laid back and let her take the lead. She has always been the initiator and the decision maker. Even lately during our crisis, she's called the shots.

I think I need to pursue her. Not in the obvious superficial way, but in the confident not giving up I know what I want and I'm going to get it fashion. Through this entire process I've been operating on preparing myself for the possibility that we won't make it. And I think that's holding me back. If I'm going to do this, I need to do it 100%. In other words, be confident that I can get her back, stop taking no for an answer.

Pursuing her is a challenge. After she told me how unhappy she'd been, I tried pursuing by buying her gifts and making superficial shows of my love for her. That failed. Why? It was a needy reactive pursuit. What I need to do is pursue her with love, not neediness. Make it clear that I don't need her, but I want her and I'm going to get her.

This is what I learned tonight. She can't resist me. When I'm confident and happy and fun and naughty, she is drawn to me. I mean, she actually told me tonight I had to stop or we'd end up in bed. Big sign. Might as well have a flashing neon sign above her head saying 'what you are doing is working'. I've never had confidence in our R, I've always let her have it her way. But it seems the confident, persistent yet gentle love is the thing that gets to her. Not demanding, not needy, just quiet gentle persistent love. What woman can resist that. Like the ladies said in this thread, women love a man who doesn't give up, as long as he does it the right way.

So what does this translate to? No more "it's probably over but I'm going to give it a half hearted effort". It is not over, I'm going to give it 100% and if my heart gets stomped on in the end at least I'll know I held nothing back. When she rejects me, I'm going to keep smiling and keep on keeping on knowing that she'll be back. When she does things that hurt me I'll view it as her challenge to keep on loving her. Gentle persistent love, that's my motto.

And now the challenging part, that many may disagree with. I'm going for the separation. No resisting there. It may bite me in the ass in the end but I'm going to sacrifice the battle to win the war. Why? This isn't the end. She needs time and space to get over her resentment. I will give it to her. I think this will work to my advantage in several ways. First, it will clearly demonstrate that I'm not needy. Second, by doing this and still being confident and happy she will see that I am truly a different person. Finally, in order for us to have a future together she must choose me. In order for her to make that choice, I have to let her go. Otherwise she is just sticking around due to circumstances and not her choice. As my therapist said, it's not so much a matter of opening the cage door as it is taking the cage away.

I'm looking at this as catching the dogs when they get loose. If you chase them, they run harder. If you sit at home and wait for them to come home, you never see them again. The winning strategy is to pace them, hang back a bit but keep on following, waiting for them to tire and come to you.

[still trying]

I should add that I'm all psyched up and perhaps a bit too out there, but I think I am onto something... Feedback?

I guess the trickiest part of this is maintaining the confidence and walking the fine line. There is a big difference between chasing and pursuing with gentle determined love. It's a fine line to straddle and I need to become a master at not crossing the line. I think the trick is going to be making sure that no matter what she does, I continue to give her love and hope and not give up. This is part of why I think she needs the separation, to see that I will continue to love her and not be hurt and withdrawn by her actions.

[soul_mate]

I think you are onto something and you really do sound confident. Its all about what works and what does not you have found something that works so keep it up. Whenever she beats you down in the future come back and read this post to regain this positive attitude.

[LL44]

And now the challenging part, that many may disagree with. I'm going for the separation. No resisting there. It may bite me in the ass in the end but I'm going to sacrifice the battle to win the war. Why? This isn't the end. She needs time and space to get over her resentment. I will give it to her. I think this will work to my advantage in several ways. First, it will clearly demonstrate that I'm not needy. Second, by doing this and still being confident and happy she will see that I am truly a different person. Finally, in order for us to have a future together she must choose me. In order for her to make that choice, I have to let her go. Otherwise she is just sticking around due to circumstances and not her choice. As my therapist said, it's not so much a matter of opening the cage door as it is taking the cage away.

If you have some extra courage, I really would love it if you could mail me some. This is what I have wanted to do forever, but I am terrified.

Best of luck. I love where your head and mind are, it sounds like you are fitting yourself into her puzzle. This is fantastic.

[LooseThread]

still_trying, I think you are onto something here. I wish my h would think like you are in your last couple of posts instead of being hurt and clingy (after he was the one who pulled the pin).

[Just Beau]

Hey Stilltrying.Read your thread from front to back,and I'm friggin stoked for you!

Two pages in,I was really wondering about you.You seemed a bit too manipulative and angry for things to work.

But man,your progress is awesome.

My wife left me just over a month ago,and we went totally dark on each other.I so wanted to get in her business,but respected her space.Now,with 180s and GALs,I have shown her that I am a strong man who will do anything for my family,and she has responded by telling me she loves me and wants to get counseling.

We are still seperated,and quite distant,honestly,but hope is all I ever wanted,and I have that.

I'd kill for contact with my W like you have,so try to fully appreciate that.

You rock man.Keep at it.

[still trying]

Yeah, part of this post is to remind me in the future, mental pep talk

But ya know it hit me after last night. At one point she was leaning close talking to me and I looked her right in the eyes and said 'You know how terribly hard it is not to kiss you right now?'. It wasn't a needy pouting sad statement, it was a bold confident statement made with a wry smile and a spark in my eye. No, no kiss there, but you could see in her eyes that she wanted to, you could see she was pleased. That's the kind of thing I have to do. Of course it's a fine line between that and pressuring, I guess the difference is the confidence and neediness. Wanting to kiss her because you need to be close is going to pressure her and push her away. Saying I want to kiss her while being confident and happy and making it clear that I'm stating my wants but she's going to have to come to me is a whole different ball game.

I was thinking about all of this and what's worked and confidence is the biggie I've been missing. It's only about a month since I really got a grip on my neediness and learned to appreciate and want her without needing her. I was thinking about what I did a month ago when we ended up having sex and it was the same sort of thing. We'd spent the night talking about her plans for school and I found myself fascinated with this strong woman taking charge of her life. We did some photos for a charity calendar (cleavage pics for a breast cancer awareness fundraiser) and the whole time I was snapping pics I held the camera off to the side and looked deep into her eyes with a confident smile. We went to bed and we talked, with me looking into her eyes and really listening. And what happened? She came to me, I give her a quick kiss and she asked for more and one thing led to another. Of course the mistake I made was not letting it go, wanting more. I need to maintain my confidence even though she'll pull away after nights like that. Leave her wanting more and wait patiently for her to come to me.

It's going to be a fine line but I think I can walk it. Being confident and not needing anything, making it clear what I want and not being hurt when I don't get it is the key. No pressure, just me letting her know what I want and making her come to me. The big thing I've been missing lately is the confidence that I can get her back. I don't know, it just seems to me that when I'm sitting around preparing myself for the possibility that it won't work out, it's impossible for me to put my best effort forth.

[still trying]

Well, uneventful day. One nice thing was that W called me while leaving work (had to work late) and chatted idly for a bit as she was packing things up. Normally she'd just send me a text saying leaving work now. Not reading much into it.

Tomorrow we leave for key west for 5 days. I expect we'll have a great time. Since she's going to be in party mode and we'll be drinking quite a bit, I expect to be able to lay on my charm and confidence routine, no pressure just flirting and innuendo and confidence. Gotta watch myself, I tend to get carried away when I've had a bit much to drink. I also need to be on my A game here as this is the last bit of time we'll really spend together before the separation and I want to leave on a high note. I still have a hard time not feeling hurt when she snips at me over little insignificant things. I get over it quickly, remind myself that it's not about what she's upset about and that I need to greet the little attacks with love, but they always catch me off guard for a few seconds.

I suppose there is the extremely unlikely possibility that we'll fall madly in love on this trip and she'll come begging me to take her back. I'll count on that when I see the pigs flying next to the plane

[Dom R]

early morning quickie.. hope you see this before your trip

What was different? Confidence.

Yes! exactly! That's part of the "Positive Mental Attitude" mantra around here.

it helps YOU deal with things.. and it makes you more appealing for HER to be around you

I think I need to pursue her. ...

Sounds like it. I'd summarize a good attitude as, "show interest, without expectation or demands".

So what does this translate to? No more "it's probably over but I'm going to give it a half hearted effort". It is not over, I'm going to give it 100% and if my heart gets stomped on in the end at least I'll know I held nothing back.

To use a much abused word: Awesome


now, the only word of caution I have:

And now the challenging part, that many may disagree with. I'm going for the separation. No resisting there.

"no resisting", is not the same thing as going along with it.

Do you agree with what I posted earlier, about "not helping someone move", is not the same as "resisting them moving"?

If you let her do things at her own pace, she may or may not move out.
You have already seen signs, from her, that she isnt 100% sure about moving out any more. She "thinks" it is neccessary, but it does not sound like she is 100% certain any more.

On the other hand, if you seem to be in favour of the separation, and are actively helping her move out... she WILL move out.

(this isnt always true... there are some, very challenging, difficult wives, who will do/not do something, just to be the OPPOSITE of what you want to happen. Doesnt sound like your wife is one of those, however)


I understand your theories on separation. But for you, it's all theory. Once you two are separated, it gets much, much more difficult to show positive changes in you. Take it from people who have been/are actually separated.

You can give her "time and space", while still being in the same house.
While I am not in this category myself, there are enough people on this board who HAVE done this, successfully. If you dont understand how to do it... why not find out ideas on how to do this, rather than just assume, "well, I cant see how to do it, so it must be impossible" ?

[LooseThread]

See, this is where I get all confused W tell me she still loves me and cares about me and wants to believe that things could be different, but that she's just thrown her heart out there so many times only to have me stomp on it and she doesn't know if she can get over it. She basically feels like if we continue to live together we're just going to resent each other more and more and then it will really be over. In her own words she wants the separation as a 180, she said that what we're doing isn't working and we have to try something different.

So, it does give me some hope, that she really wants this as a means to try and get to a place where she could work on our M. When I asked her if she'd be willing to do MC while we are separated she said that she just found a C of her own and would like to work on herself before we do that. I do consider this some progress as we have gone from 1.5 months ago with her saying she was done, to now where she seems to have some hope we can work things out.

It puts me in an odd place though as most of the other folks here are in situations where their W's say that they don't love them anymore or they want a D. Here I am with my W saying she loves me and does want to believe it can work out but doesn't know if I can ever change. So I can't figure out how much of the usual advice applies. It would seem really simple, all I have to do is show her that I can change and things can be different. But as I've told her, I can't do that if she's not willing to let me. In other words, how can I show her she's important to me and I really do care about her if she barely wants to talk to me or be around me? When this all started I pursued her and that pushed her away. Then I stopped pursuing and that just had us drifting apart. I need to work on the middle ground of not being needy and showing her that I will love her and talk to her and support her no matter what she does. Perhaps in time that will sink in.

Hiya...your w sounds a lot like my h, except that now I'm not sure if i even want him and our separation (from my point of view) is required because nothing else has worked so far.