More complicated than I imagined...

[LL44]

because of the steak and the peanut butter (not at the same time).

You made me laugh at this one.

This post was very sad, but very good for you too. Sometimes, meltdowns are good. You can get it out, then be stronger after the storm. I totally understand the Mallowmars, totally. There were so many little and big things H used to do for me, now so many are gone. I am like you, I do them for myself, but its hard, so hard. Triggers.....sigh.......

Suddenly the phrase "she means the world to me" seems so empty. It's not the world, it's everything in it. I couldn't come close to listing them but I'm sure everyone is familiar with the list - the smile, the laughter, the dreaming, the gifts, the shoulder to lean on, the "i'm proud of what you've accomplished", the thank you's and the "when are you coming up from work?".

Yes, everything. The whole package. I admit, I didn't see or appreciate many of these things. I always assumed they would be there, and I didn't need to work for our marriage. I felt we had the 'secret' connection. When marriages were falling down around us, I (and he also states) thought we were the solid pillars. I am guilty of 'backburning' H and our marriage, but never, EVER with the intention of hurting him or ending our R.

I hope your party was fun and that you had a nice weekend.

[Michael Mc C]

That's a VERY good point. I have taken great care in what I actually send via email. I don't think I have ever sent the first draft.

I've discussed the present situation with a lot of friends and although I know they mean well, I am still partial to taking the high road and trying to be patient, loving and understanding.

That approach really gets me pulling my hair out sometimes - but I'd rather be bald and married...

[Michael Mc C]

Thanks lwb, the party Saturday night was a much needed break and I had a great time. The food wasn't the best and the music was a bit annoying - definitely out of touch with what's "hip" these days - I thought I was dressed pretty well but apparently tee shirts and half-tucked in dress shirts are the cool thing these days!!) I've resigned myself to the fact that I'm just not hip, but my kids think I'm cool (sure they do... )

But it was good to get out with friends and just have a fun time. Wife spent the night playing the game but OM was not involved. Actually felt bad for her that she chose the game over going out (and over me ) but these are the decisions that she makes.

I received another email from OM last night telling me that he has been focusing on his kid and getting a life of his own (I sent him a text message on 9/22 letting him know about this site - I figured it couldn't hurt!)

He hasn't had THE discussion with my W yet but insists it's coming. He has no interest in talking to her on the phone so I guess he'll end it the same way it started - in game.

Apparently my wife's 2 year plan wasn't discussed between them until just before she dropped the bomb on me in early September. That's not to say it wasn't in the works before they had "the spark" but at least I know THEY hadn't discussed it back when things seemed to be going really well with us.

I know I shouldn't obsess over this since there's nothing I can do about what has already happened.

I've been thinking about our anniversaries which are all coming up in November - 6th will be 14 years married, 7th will be 20 years since we met, 21st will be 20 years since first kiss.

Not stressing about these but curious how they will go. I don't expect ANYthing to even be mentioned on the 6th although I know it will be on her mind all day. As for the other 2 dates, I am certain she doesn't even realize what they are. If things were fine between us, I'd make a big deal out of them - 20 years just seems too incredible to let them slip by without attaching some significance to them.

I will gladly ignore these 20 year marks if it gives me a chance at being able to celebrate the 21 year marks next year!

[Michael Mc C]

I have learned that the OM has removed my wife from his "friends" list in the game. While this isn't exactly ending the relationship, I believe it has sent her a signal. She has been VERY irritable this evening towards me and, sadly enough, towards the kids. Nothing nasty, just short-tempered.

So the 4 of us kept ourselves busy and let her get back to her on-line game. I still cringe when I say that - it's just a game. I guess I need to admit that she got sucked into the game so many months ago because something about our marriage left her susceptible to it. What gets me is how she put all of her focus on the game instead of us (or at least the kids). Anyway, I'm not here to rehash that one.

It is clear to me that my wife has not read DR as she is exhibiting the normal, desperate signs that come so natural to some of us that have been left behind (I've already hidden my copy of the book!)

Initially she pushed and pleaded with him to explain why he had become so distant. Her new tactic is to act forlorn and sullen whenever he is "around". She leaves him comments (in game still) about how she's feeling - nothing relationship related, but just how she's feeling in general (sad, cranky, confused, etc.) His response was "need to get yourself one of those "sh*t happens t-shirts". While I don't agree that this is the way to end a NORMAL relationship, this does appear to be the OM's way of doing it. Crazy as it sounds, I don't want to see her get hurt - which is something I tried telling her very early on in our sitch. However, beggars can't be choosers...

I'm not exactly thrilled at the moment, believe it or not, because I know 1) life around here is going to be edgy for a while and 2) I know that the reason it's edgy is because she misses her fantasy man. Taking the advice of em (thanks again), I'm going to need to be the adult here. As long as I continue with my plan, I should have a chance at making this work. This is the perfect time for me to really focus on GAL'ing.

I know that if/when that relationship ends, by no means is it a sign that things are going to turn around for US. She has brewed up a barrel of resentment over these past few months and she's been swiggin' from that thing an awful lot lately! I see the OM as just one of many obstacles in our road ahead.

Final note (or book) regarding this evening: Not sure if I mentioned this before but I bought the game software for myself and started my own account. The only purpose for this was because early in our sitch, she mentioned that it would help rebuild a connection between us. In hindsight, I think she may have been trying to simply get me off her back or worse, hook up with someone on-line!!

I was on the game tonight and spoke with one of her closest on-line friends. The friend told me that she was concerned about W's behavior as she seems to become attached to the characters (or "toons") very easily and allows those feelings to transfer to the real people behind the toons. This is what happened with the OM. There have been 2 other men (yep, 2) that she has formed a special connection with. I am not terribly concerned about that fact because she has begun pushing 1 away and the other has no interest in a relationship (I have that from a very reliable source). I am concerned, of course, that this very well could be a continuing issue.

The friend also stated that this looks like gaming addiction and has offered to help in any way she can. Prior to speaking to me, she was not aware of our true living arrangements nor the fact that the EA/OA started months before we separated.

She made a comment to my wife on Saturday night (sushi night) "recommending" that she go out for a fling. My wife said that it sounded like a good idea! The friend did try to back-pedal and let her know that it would in fact be a very BAD idea - for many reasons. The friend apologized to me for it tonight (I had no clue the conversation evern occurred). She wasn't aware of our true sitch and she certainly didn't think my wife would consider it as an option.

If nothing else, I feel a little better knowing that I have an ally of sorts in the game with my wife. I won't ask her to do or say anything on my behalf. All I can hope is that she will choose her words with a little more care now that she knows what has been going on. Aside from the "fling" comment, she was also instrumental in encouraging my wife to try and work things out with OM. Again, she apologized for this. I cannot hold a grudge against her at all for this because she was simply basing the friendly encouragement on the information she had been given.

There are concerns, of course, that my wife may find out about the discussion. While this was in no way underhanded, I'm sure you can imagine the kind of reaction I would get.

[theoden]

MCC,

I've just read all your posts. You've gotten great advice from all the good folks here.

Let me say that I think your situation is actually not so far gone as you may FEEL it is. Remember, what's real and what you are feeling may be totally unrelated.

Some general thoughts.

1. Time is on your side. If she has a 2 year plan, then you've got plenty of time. So relax. Exactly where is she going? Sounds like she's stuck. Maybe give yourself a week off and stopr worrying.

2. She's unemployed. She needs to get a job and initiate a move out of the house, therefore, inertia is on your side. Just don't act like a jack ass and she'll stick around.

3. Don't ask her to move out yet. It's always preferable for you to live together for her to see your changes and get curious on your whereabouts.

4. Don't ask her to sleep in a different bed. Let her move to the basement if she wants to.

5. Give her tons of space. That's emotional space, not physical space. That is, don't pursue her. Don't hover. Don't feel like you have to make yourself scarce in your own home if you don't want to. It's your home. Don't let her crazymaking determine your actions.

6. Have fun, get a life. More importanly, find youself. Is there some part of yourself you've lost touch with? Are you passionate about your life in general? Have you found your call to adventure? If you are like me, there probably came a point in your ligfe where you lost your nerve and became boring. Time to man up. Become the warrior you were meant to be. Get your self-esteem up.

7. Going dark is not the best term. Perhaps try "Moving on" for size. That means your life is moving forward with passion and adventure with or without her. You are acting not reacting. At this point, it's OK to include her in the fun if she asks. Put most of your emotional energy into your own life, not your marriage. Save yourself, and maybe your marriage will be saved.

8. Experiment and monitor results. Try drive-by compliments, "Wow, nice ass honey." Offer a back-rub. Drop a rose on her pillow. Throw her off guard. Some of these things may seem like chasing, but they are more to have a little fun and see what happens. You guys don't seem like you are in the desperate stage that requires LRT. If they backfire, then backpeddle and try something else. Hey -- she's not going anywhere for 2 FREAKING YEARS, so you can try anything you want. ;-)

9. Your wife really needs to get a life. She seems to live on that stupid game. YOu can't pull her off the game, but good golly, it seems like an addiction. Oh...by the way, DON't block the game, that would be so desperate and pathetic, that you are practially driving her away.

10. Frank_D on the boards once told me that most people's responses to affairs is: #1) Get out of my house, bitch. or #2) Please, please, please don't leave me, I NEED you so much. Niether of these work. DB-ing is about: working on yourself, having fun, being creative, giving her space and see what happens.

Good luck...

Theoden

[Michael Mc C]

Wow, thanks Theo. That is it in a nutshell!

So, we had a discussion this morning... This morning, during my daily conference call, seh was hovering. I knew that something was up. After the call, I asked her if she had something on her mind and she admitted there was a lot on her mind.

She has been looking for a job in order to support her move out of the house. She said the job search isn't going well and she's not sure what to do next.

I recommended we re-purpose one of the rooms downstairs so she could have her own "place" - this is something we discussed in the past. She replied "So you can support me while I finish my degree? Somehow that would seem like taking advantage of you."

I then recommended that maybe she take some time and move to her mother's - even if it's only for a few weeks. Take some time to clear her mind and really think about what she needs and wants. She said that she had thought about that too. Maybe move in there for the next couple of years, get a part time job and work on finishing her degree.

She then looked at me and said "I'm not in love with you. I am staying for the kids and that's just not right. I don't want to live in a loveless marriage."

I agreed but also brought up the fact that love and marriage are like a machine - you need to keep fueling them. I know she is not at all confident that she could ever find love for me again but I'm still hopeful. I can't push it though. At this point all I can do is hope that she sees something "here" sometime in the future.

She got a taste of that heart-thumping, romance gushing experience of a new relationship and, unfortunately, our marriage paled in comparison. I guess due to neglect, our relationship seems very mundane and boring.

I recommended that she go out and try to reconnect with some of the friends she has let fall by the wayside (not in those words). To become involved in activities outside the home. I also recommended individual counselling in order to help her sort out her feelings and try to find herself. I'm not sure she will go for that but I honestly believe it's something worth trying. Sometimes I think she has a fear of self-discovery.

She just ran out to drop off my son's permission slip. When she comes back, not sure if we're going to continue this discussion or not.

No chance of working out our issues in this discussion but hopefully this will at least be a step towards her realizing (remembering?) some of the good that has come from our marriage - understanding and support.

[Michael Mc C]

No, she wasn't ready to end the discussion. She called me into the kitchen and told me she ended the relationship with the OM last night. She also said that she's not sure that she can stick with that decision.

Complete silence for the next couple of minutes. She then said "I am absolutely miserable." I told her that she doesn't need to keep telling me this as she has made it abundantly clear in the past. As much as I'm not allowed to remind her that I love her, I wish she wouldn't keep throwing that one in my face.

I told her that she didn't appear to be absolutely miserable before the beginning of the summer. She said that's because she wasn't in love with someone else before the beginning of the summer.

!!!

My only comment to that was "And that's the point I've been trying to make all along." She said "I know, you're right."

A while back I found a link online regarding the catalyst of an online affair and my wife's scenario has been a text book example (if you consider this link a "text book"):

http://www.2-in-2-1.co.uk/marriageclinic/infidelity/onlineaffair/

She followed the link and told me that she could understand how I might feel that this was what happened but it didn't apply in her case. In the end, I guess it does apply. It is as if someone had been taking notes while her relationship with OM blossomed.

I asked her why she decided to end the relationship with OM. She said she had to because it was too difficult to not speak with him - she said she would not pursue any relationships while she was living in the house. I told her that I will not be held responsible for her feelings of misery and that if she needs to continue contacting him, she should.

I know that he is trying to back off anyway. At this point, however, if he doesn't back off and he allows this relationship to grow, there's nothing I can do about it. She's not happy in my relationship so what can I do? I have to let her go.

She told me that she doesn't know what the right decision is anymore. I had a conference call to get to so my final comment to her before going down to my office was that she shouldn't try to go through this alone. She should talk to someone, a friend or friends. Not so they can provide the answer but so she can hopefully start to make sense of things - whatever "sense" is.

She said there is no one that she wants to talk to.

A few weeks ago, when she first attempted to end the relationship, I tried to help her through the pain and emotions she was enduring. I flat out told her that any advice I give her may be biased and therefore she might want to get a second opinion. This time, I am listening and being supportive but aside from the few suggestions I've already made, not sure what more I can do.

To see her in pain right now is killing me. I wanted to give her a hug but she's just not interested. Also not sure what after affects it would have on me. She feels that it is because of me that she is in so much pain. She resents me for her inability to be with the OM.

I'm fairly certain she will be moving out soon - possibly today.

[theoden]

MCC,

I don't suggest she move out unless she really wants to. It seems like you are pushing her out. I admire your fearlessness. It will serve you well. Since she's ended the R with OM, give her time to grieve it. It's a real loss.

While she's in a tizzy about her life, you be the rock she really needs.

It's OK for her to tell you how miserable she is. Listen, validate, don't judge. She is miserable because: 1. She doesn't know who she is, 2. She's probably a little depressed, 3. She's addicted to this online game, 4. She just "lost" someone she thinks she loves, 5. She's comparing a fantasy online relationship to reality.

Give her time to sort our her feelings. You be the one to go on a personal journey of transformation. You already seem quite centered and strong. You happiness and clarity will stand in a contradistinction to her misery. She'll eventually realize she's better off with you.

But...she's got a lot of grpwing up to do. She's got to change.

--Theoden

[Michael Mc C]

You're right, I shouldn't push her to move. I know she would prefer moving out at this point but with only her mother's house as an option, she's decided to stay here. If we could swing it financially, she'd be out already.

It's all very frustrating. I guess I'm glad she's still here but seeing her go through this withdrawal of the OM is killing me. Trying to lead my own life still but knowing that she's not even close to thinking about being with me is a big challenge to my PMA.

[Larrynarry]

mcc... I got to tell you man... You are a ROCK!!!

You are handling this stuff so calmly!!

I know it's hard, but I believe you are in a good place. She has to go through the stages of this OA ending and it will take some time. Be there for her and try to keep her in the house.

You weather this storm, and the sun may come out.