Divorced but CANNOT "move on": Urgent Help Needed!

[Dead Man Walking]

This was a terrible weekend. XW was invited to a charity Halloween Party in Birmingham (~100 miles away) Friday night by my brother's XW. When my X told me she was going, I should have had "no comment". But no, I had to spout off that I'm sure she was happy to have a new excuse to hook-up with OM while she's there.

She had a strange response to my accusation: she informed me that she had decided to back-off emotionally from their R, because she discovered his MySpace.com profile, which contained no mention of her. She was mad because he listed his status as "open for romance", rather than "in a relationship"--which infuriated my XW. She showed me her cellphone, where she had changed his name to "Butthead" in her contacts list. She even forwarded me an email she had written to OM last week.

Her message and his response were very revealing. She accused him of using her, while continuing to "shop around" behind her back. His reply was a rather lame attempt to justify his actions. He told her she had nothing to worry about because every woman he has met online falls far short of her charms and beauty. He specifically mentioned that he was uncomfortable with my XW's apparent eagerness to get married, since they had only been dating a couple months.

Well, I resisted (barely) the urge to point out to my XW that I had recognized this evil creep immediately. It was my emotional attempt to open her eyes to his wily ways that had resulted in a restraining order. I knew he would only use her, but she had just forwarded my warnings for her on to him.

The reason the weekend was a disappointment is because I had expected my XW to recognize the futility of her R with OM; maybe she would even see me in a new light after getting burned. But, either she is desperately in love with the guy regardless of his black heart; or, she is even more naive than I realized. She left Friday evening (ostensibly to attend the party, then spend the night with her ex-SIL), and didn't return until late Sunday night. She refused to answer her cellphone the entire weekend. (I didn't call, but our D17 tried repeatedly.) She refused to answer any of D17's questions about where she had been or why she wouldn't call home.

Of course, she won't acknowledge her tryst. But even D17 knows what's going on--without my input. Is this situation strange to anybody else but me? She has to know that she'll inevitably be hurt by this loser. So why is she in such denial? I suspect her pride prevents her from acknowledging that I had been right about him from the beginning.

In anticipation of the advice that I will probably get to ignore my XW's dating habits, detach, and work on GAL... You're absolutely right. I am able to observe this impending trainwreck from a distance, almost as if in slow motion. I take no pleasure in seeing my XW suffer like I did when she booted me out. The failure of this R--if it falls apart the way I expect--does nothing to make me any better a mate for her than I was when she walked-out two years ago.

On the other hand, shouldn't I see this as a positive development that my XW should recognize that I wasn't so bad after all? I mean, even without my self-improvement efforts, I have to look good in comparison to OM, right?

[azhira]

I had to spout off that I'm sure she was happy to have a new excuse to hook-up with OM while she's there.

Why? What made it so uncontrollable for you? Not being critical...just curious.

(BTW, sometimes I literally bit the inside of my mouth to keep from saying something stupid. If you don't know what to say, just say nothing!)

Well, I resisted (barely) the urge to point out to my XW that I had recognized this evil creep immediately.

Good! She already feels hurt...your job is to continue to validate her feelings. Rubbing it would have just made you a sore winner.

She refused to answer her cellphone the entire weekend. (I didn't call, but our D17 tried repeatedly.) She refused to answer any of D17's questions about where she had been or why she wouldn't call home.

Your XW may have thought D17 was fishing for info for you. (Was she?)

So why is she in such denial? I suspect her pride prevents her from acknowledging that I had been right about him from the beginning.

It has to run its course. You just stay out of it, and this other guy will inevitably hang himself.

In anticipation of the advice that I will probably get to ignore my XW's dating habits, detach, and work on GAL... You're absolutely right.

See?

On the other hand, shouldn't I see this as a positive development that my XW should recognize that I wasn't so bad after all? I mean, even without my self-improvement efforts, I have to look good in comparison to OM, right?

Apples and oranges. Don't worry about measuring up or not. Worry about being a good father, and your own life right now.

You know this...you even said I'd say it...but sometimes we have to hear things dozens of times before it'll sink in.

[Dead Man Walking]

Hey Azhira,

In the past several days since I last posted here, life has been topsy-turvy on my end. I almost miss the boredom and anticipation of those two weeks I spent in forced isolation.

Hard to believe now that I was worried that my XW might never talk to me again. One thing we have done a lot of this week is talk--including several face-to-face conversations at her house. What's different than before is our topics: child-rearing, OM, dating, intimacy. But I had higher priority issues that I wanted to address with her.

As a result of prayer, Bible study, meditation, and a reminder from Michelle, I quickly came to the realization that I needed to forgive and be forgiven. I regularly ask God to forgive my sins, but this was different. This time, I needed to be forgiven by my XW for the long litany of failures and offenses which contributed to our marital disharmony. Until I received her forgiveness, I feared I would never achieve real inner peace. My guilt for the damage I caused to our relationship would torture me relentlessly.

On the other hand, I couldn't seem to rid my heart of the intense bitterness and resentment I felt toward my XW for abandoning me, crushing our kids' joy, and mistreating me through the legal system. I knew that I needed to forgive her in order to defuse the emotional charge I had built up. It mattered not that she never asked me for it; or that she still refuses to accept her "share" of responsibility for our failures. Even if that never happens, I needed to let my XW know that by forgiving her, I hope to release her from any lingering guilt she might have been carrying around.

For some time now, I have tried to force myself to change some of my long-held personal opinions or concepts about my XW. I had this notion that I should try to purge from my mind any obsolete or inaccurate data (false memories, gossip, rumors, misconceptions, etc.) which may have tainted my perceptions of who my XW really is now. My intention is to see my wife with a "new set of eyes", the way another man might--and the way I did early in our courtship, when I was still forming opinions about her strengths & weaknesses, talents & handicaps.

I don't know if this idea is ill-conceived, beneficial or even possible. It may be nothing more than "psycho-babble". But, there seems to be a difference in the tone, length, and subject of our conversations since I have tried to put this idea into practice. Months ago, there were several "flash point" topics that would inevitably escalate into emotional arguments. The outcome was so predictable that we both understood that some things were just off-limits.

This week, we have managed to discuss some issues that have needed to be addressed for a long time. We didn't reach resolution on most of them, but at least this time the discussions were concluded peaceably. (That outcome is probably more important to me than my XW. I crave any interaction with her--even if it's just verbal.)

OK, I should probably interrupt my narrative at this point to ask for clarification about the merit of my actions. I want to tell you all about our "juicy" conversations--I think you'll find some of them interesting and relevant--but I'm reticent to proceed in this post. (I sense I'm about to enter a minefield, but that might just be my paranoia.)

Several weeks ago, MRHIGHSPEED offered the following advice:

The thing is, by focusing everything on its potential to win her back from teh dead IS obsessive...So, there needs to be no contact aside from what's absolutely necessary. NONE!!! There needs to be some introspection, sould searching, and personal goals on your part.

I don't want to become "obsessive". (Been there; done that.) I am attempting to purge my mind of obsolete beliefs which had limited my capacity to accept my XW--or anyone else--at face value. So, I'm torn between my commitment to DB principles that say I should not be talking to my XW at all, and my intuition (or ego)--which tempts me to engage her in conversation, as long as the result appears to be positive (meaning I'm gaining valuable information from her about a lot of topics which we have avoided till now, or that XW shows signs of a willingness to continue talking on "good terms").

So, am I tempting fate and ignoring expert DB advice by continuing to talk to my XW when the opportunity presents itself? If I'm hurting my future chances with XW in any capacity by engaging in "innocent" flirting or banter, I'll go dark immediately. Please advise...

[azhira]

Hey DMW...saw your post, just didn't have time to respond last night.

The no R talk rule is to help both partners have some space to cool off, and get their heads on straight. If the talks feel healthy and are helping both of you, then there's no reason not to continue.

If she's responding to the mild flirting, no reason to stop. The point of restraint is to reduce the pressure.

The biggest rule is "do more of what works".

BTW, are you going to do the KLA group?

[Just_Me]

I'm still trying to figure out how all these talks happen. And, when you're together whether you do anything other than talk about your past relationship. Do you do anything to foster a new, better relationship?

If these talks aren't producing negative results, then I guess you got away with it. But, after a certain point, if all you have to talk about is your failing and your forgiveness (and seeking forgiveness), it just gets old. For a change of pace, how about for the next 10 interactions, you don't say anything about your past relationship and you don't mention other love interests of hers. If she doesn't seem to object to contact with you, then by all mean, continue, but start being a great guy to be around. All this R talk just sounds like a drag.

As far as this other guy goes, I can't judge whether you are a better catch. He maybe offers things that you don't. And I don't know what you have done to SHOW your xw that you are a catch. He might not be right, but she still might not see you as an alternative. Do the interactions you have leave you both with a positive impression? Or is it just exhausting to rehash the past?

If I told you that pursuing your wife will only end in heartache or that she isn't right for you, would you accept that? And then I said, "I can't believe he doesn't see that". It doesn't work, does it? People do what they feel is in their own best interest, sometimes when it isn't. She has to follow the path she is on herself. I still get a controlling feel from you...like you offer unsolicited advice. Hopefully that's just me reading into things.

So, my advice: Quit focusing so much on her and on the past relationship. Your job is to be a man that she'd be crazy not to pick, despite the presence of OM. Your life should make you happy, without her. Have a complete and happy life of your own...that's what is attractive.

[Dead Man Walking]

Just_Me, you were one I expected to reiterate your (and others') earlier advice to "lay low".

I'm still trying to figure out how all these talks happen. And, when you're together whether you do anything other than talk about your past relationship. Do you do anything to foster a new, better relationship?

As to how these talks occur, my cell phone call tally tells the story: I receive more than twice as many calls as I initiate to my XW. For sure, I'll get at least three calls from her per day--and I might miss two more, that I usually don't return. [The exception to this trend is every other weekend, when she does her long-distance "sleep-over" thing with OM. Nothing but silence from both ends then.]

The majority of her calls to me are of the "trivial" variety. She frequently asks for my help for everything from picking up our kids from school or ball practice, to sharing gossip about our XSIL (my brother's XW), or asking me for money for unexpected expenses on behalf of one of our children. Occasionally, she asks for my help on her behalf--usually to schedule a doctor appointment or get a Rx refilled for her. Still other times, she asks me to come discipline our S12, or help him or D17 with some last-minute assignment they have put off for school.

As to past relationship: we don't usually discuss it much. I make a rule never to bring it up, and she doesn't seem particularly interested in reliving old times. [That has bothered me lately; she has dozens of photo albums that she used to be diligent about keeping up to date. Now, she doesn't seem the least bit interested in reliving past fond memories. When I helped her move this summer, I found our wedding photos and a video. To my surprise and disappointment, she moved them to her new storage building without so much as a peek. She has always relished those look-backs, up until about 3 years ago. But I don't know what she feels when she reminisces now. She is good about ordering the kids' school and sports photos--but nothing with me included.]

...After a certain point, if all you have to talk about is your failing and your forgiveness (and seeking forgiveness), it just gets old.

It was only after I got Michelle's newsletter (which included an old article she had written about Forgiveness) that I decided to take a shot on writing XW a letter. I tend to 'beat myself up' relentlessly about my failures as a husband--especially since so many of my mistakes are obvious now, in helpless hindsight. I also have a hard time getting past being dumped on by my XW, the most recent incident costing me $3500 and a bogus "spousal abuse" charge. So, I asked her to sign a proposal which absolved each other from all our "dirty laundry". [XW loves to read 1 Corinthians 13, but she can't seem to master the end of verse 5: "...(Love) keeps no record of wrongs."]

As far as this other guy goes, I can't judge whether you are a better catch. He maybe offers things that you don't. And I don't know what you have done to SHOW your xw that you are a catch. He might not be right, but she still might not see you as an alternative.

Just_Me, there is absolutely no way for me to come to an objective answer to your question. I'll acknowledge that he could be who my XW is looking for. Yet I have to rely upon his words & deeds, and the reaction of my XW to discovering that he had, at the very least, been intentionally misleading her.

I have evidence that OM violated the Rules of Professional Conduct of the Alabama Bar Association by giving my XW detailed legal advice with the sole intention of removing me (his romantic rival) from her life. One of the best divorce attorneys in Huntsville concurs, and has encouraged me to proceed with a complaint against him.

I'll let your comment pass without offense, when you state that you "can't judge whether (I am) a better catch." Consider: aside from his questionable professional ethics, he has demonstrated dishonesty and disrespect to my XW. I don't know how he did it, but within 3 weeks of responding to a personal ad (which stipulated a "Christian gentlemen, clean lifestyle, respects single women and their children"), he had my XW spending a long weekend out of town with him.

I became involved at that point, not as a result of my anger or jealousy, but because our kids were left alone for almost 5 days. Their Mom lied to them, me, and her father about her whereabouts. I was asked to help my XSIL track down my XW by providing her clues from my XW's phone's caller ID.

Anyway, despite being "swept off her feet", my XW has cooled her passions for OM recently. She found his "MySpace.com" site, which conveniently ignored all mention of my XW--and specified that OM was looking for a serious relationship. (This was all created by OM after he took advantage of a lady who trusted him implicitly.)

I'll repeat here the reasons why I believe--and strongly suspect that my XW will concur (at least in part) that I come in ahead of OM. That's not to say, of course, that my "charms" are sufficient on their own to attract her back to me. I just see myself winning this particular two-man race, is all.

No one she will ever meet will have my unique qualifications:
1. Has known my XW as best friend, lover, partner and provider for twenty years;
2. Was happily married to XW for at least 15 years;
3. Is the biological father to XW's children;
4. Is absolutely committed to bringing about the best life possible for XW and our kids;
5. Is determined to fulfill the God-given role as spiritual leader for my family;
6. Is intimately aware of extremely private circumstances in XW's childhood which effect her emotionally on a daily basis;
7. Has sworn before God to love XW unconditionally "as long as we both shall live".

People do what they feel is in their own best interest, sometimes when it isn't. She has to follow the path she is on herself. I still get a controlling feel from you...like you offer unsolicited advice. Hopefully that's just me reading into things.

In all honesty, you are at least partially right here. For example, my XW's laptop is set-up in our S12's bedroom. She'll stay up late doing her single-woman things, but our son sometimes can't sleep because of the glare and typing. So, last night he sat up to look over her shoulder as she worked. He told XW that he knew she had been lying to him about where she disappeared to on the weekends. (Apparently, he read a message from OM, planning for XW to meet him in a local hotel here in the next couple months.)

That conversation quickly escalated into a screaming match about her privacy vs. his "need to know". I had already advised S12 against bringing up Mom's dating in his remarks to her. But, he doesn't buy her argument that she can date anyone she wants, anywhere she wants--including marrying him without so much as introducing the guy to our children. She told our son that it was "no business of his", even if she decided upon an inter-racial marriage.

I have a lot of trouble with her reasoning, because she endured an unhappy, traumatic childhood--due primarily to her father making an extremely poor choice in his second marriage. XW's stepmother continues to emotionally abuse XW and her brother to this day. XW's older step-brother sexually assaulted her in the sickest ways imaginable for more than 6 years, while she cowered in petrified silence. My XFIL chose to deal with the whole perverted mess by becoming a work-a-holic, and by choosing to remain in denial about his own kid's scarred psyches (and bodies) to this day!

So, I'm taking a long shot in the dark here; but, I have gone through hell with & for my XW to protect her from a rotten "blended family". I might have failed in that regard--but I'm the one my XW calls on to this very day when she needs anything. Fat chance her lawyer/lover will last long in that "Family Circus"...

Have a complete and happy life of your own...that's what is attractive.

I'm not aware that I'm pursuing her; as I pointed out, she almost always calls me--including frequent requests for my presence at her house. (Last night, she invited me to watch a movie with her; just a "friendly" visit.) But maybe you're right. By my willingness to come running whenever she calls, that's almost like pursuit. The thing giving me the most grief right now is to somehow create a happy life--solo. After almost two decades playing the roles of lover, husband, and father, it is still tough getting used to sleeping alone in an efficiency apartment. (Damn, I hate to sleep alone!)

I'll keep working on being a "happy batchelor"--or at least become more convincing "faking it".

[azhira]

even if she decided upon an inter-racial marriage

Okay, I'm sorry, I may be picking a fight here, but I find this offensive. Why would the idea that a relationship might be interracial have to do with anything? (Full disclosure: my xh and I are from different races, different cultures, different countries. My son is multiracial.)

I'll repeat here the reasons why I believe--and strongly suspect that my XW will concur (at least in part) that I come in ahead of OM.

Stop the comparisons. It'll only make your head hurt. You're trying to approach something in a manner that just won't work.

I don't know how he did it, but within 3 weeks of responding to a personal ad ... he had my XW spending a long weekend out of town with him.

That is her choice. It's not for you to pass judgment on.

When I helped her move this summer, I found our wedding photos and a video. To my surprise and disappointment, she moved them to her new storage building without so much as a peek.

This is normal. Maybe they're too painful, maybe she doesn't want to deal with them right now. I've packed mine away, as I just can't deal with it at the moment.

Stop with the idea that you, and only you, are right for your XW. This view will get you no where.

The light interactions are good. Let her still be the one calling you. Keep playing the role of father to your children--that's the most important thing.

[Just_Me]

One comment about what you wrote: You are being a pushover. So, she calls you even when she wants something for herself? Like pick up a prescription, call for a Drs appt? Come by and discipline the kids? I'm sorry, but these aren't activities of divorced people. In my opinion, there aren't healthy boundaries here. She knows how you feel about her and uses it when it makes life easier for her. When she is with the kids, it is her time for discipline. Don't you have child support and such figured out? You must, since you are divorced. Don't be so quick to open your wallet every time she calls. She has enough money to go out of town and for hotels. Child support should be enough to cover your portion of the responsibility for every day things. If there is medical, major dental, and such, that's a different matter. If you don't pay C.S., which is hard to believe, then I guess you should work out an amount...not be the wellspring from which money flows.

As for the pros and cons of picking you....you should forget this list. You already had those things going for you before and she divorced you. To consider you again will take more.

[Dead Man Walking]

...I find this offensive. Why would the idea that a relationship might be interracial have to do with anything? (Full disclosure: my xh and I are from different races, different cultures, different countries. My son is multiracial.)

Azhira,

The words I quoted were my XW's, spoken in anger to our son, and later to me. I can certainly understand your finding them offensive, and I regret now sharing those words here. Understand, the four of us were raised in the conservative "Bible belt" of the Deep South--with fundamentalist Christian tenets. I know as fact that neither my XW, me, or either of our children are in the least bit racist. (S12's two best friends are a different race.)

XW was apparently making a point that she alone would decide who, whether or when she would remarry--and feels no obligation to attempt to "sell" her choice to the kids or anyone else. My irritation with this attitude has more to do with her callous disregard for the impact of her decisions upon two vulnerable and innocent children. This is especially hard for me to swallow, given the destructive effects upon her & her siblings--due to her own father's horrendous choice of a second wife.

Stop with the idea that you, and only you, are right for your XW. This view will get you no where.

Well, I'm trying to understand where you and Just_Me are coming from with this. You both are telling me that there's no evidence that I'm any better for my XW than her current #1 OM. While I'll concede that there's always more than one "right man" for every woman, the facts as I know them do not support your supposition that--after 3 weeks of searching--she just happened to luckily stumble upon "Mr. Right" after 20 years out of the dating scene.

Call me defensive or combative or "non-detached". The facts about her present OM do not speak well of him. He has demonstrated a lack of concern about adhering to professional ethics; he has lied to my XW about his intentions since he met her; he passed himself off as a "Christian gentleman...who lives an appropriate lifestyle"--although he has pressed her for sex from their first date. Even tonight, she is sleeping in his bed, while his "MySpace.com" profile fails to mention that he is ostensibly "in a relationship", yet makes it clear that he is "looking for romance".

[Incidentally, Mr. OM continues to be quite evasive when asked about the events leading him to divorce Mrs. OM #1.]

Just_Me's challenge to me will be difficult, but it's worth the effort: I will give it my best shot to refrain from any talk about either our relationship or about her new love interests. [I'll wager that if either topic comes up, it will be XW who broaches the subjects.]

Thanks again to you both for the "tough love" approach; I hope to get to the point where I'll recognize the point of your messages before acting upon the urge to defend my actions.

[DaveJ]

dmw, I understand how you feel. Obviously you are extremely frustrated given the way OM has behaved and how your XW does not "see" that. Unfortunately you have no control over any of that. The more you attempt to make her see the further you will probably push her away. People will not see what they don't want to see. The only thing you can do is be friendly, supportive, and continue to validate her feelings. Yes that can be unnatural at times and you may feel the complete opposite. But you have to let her make the mistakes and see things on her own. Hopefully eventually she'll realize what a scumbag OM is. And at the same time she sees that you've been there the whole time and how much better you are. If not, well, you know you are worthwhile and you deserve somebody that appreciates you. It would be her loss.