Hardly faking it anymore: Puddle's third thread

[Nomopo]

Hi Puddle. Getting caught up on your thread, ok?

When he returned, he told me the time's not working for him, he needs all the evenings this week. Can't phone for apartments with the kids around. I thought for a split second and said, "Okay."

Wish now I'd said, "That sounds rough. Let me think about it" or "That sounds rough. Would you like to get a sitter for one of your nights?"

Truth is he was so tightly wound and so clearly unhappy/angry/whatever that I was a bit intimidated and didn't want to start a fight. Talked to friend; friend says 1) I'm letting him walk on me, 2) This is setting a precedent, and 3) He (friend) thinks this is going to get ugly. Scary stuff.

H will have to understand that once you guys work out a solution on custody (for a D or maybe now for a S), he will have his responsibilities that he will have to handle. He can ask for your help (and if I were you I'd want him to because they are your kids), but if you can't, he has to deal. No pissing and crying. Welcome to the reality of S/D.

Then in the second message clarified that since COW doesn't fit into the category of someone he's dating or interested in, but is rather a very dear friend who's not going anywhere soon, that it's moot; said he's glad we agree on keeping the kids away from romantic entanglements. Added a snarky, "Lucky for you..." there's no way they could hang out until after the talk anyway.

So there you go: H claims no romantic interest in COW. I'll have to take his word for it. We'll see what C says.

He's clearly stated his position. I'd accept it and move on. If it turns out he's lied about COW, he have to live/deal with it. Focus on you.

He's beautiful, sweet, and fun to talk to.

Beautiful, huh? Description please.

By the way, the "cool conversation" was about whether or not it's okay to sleep with someone who's married, as he'd had a big come-on from a married woman (and had declined).

What positions did you take? Has your's changed?

Friend said it's good to be clear on your reasons, and go for it.

It's good to thik clearly no matter what.

Friend also said I don't have to consider it a date for it to be a date.

Not sure I understand that. I recommend honesty and disclosure with this guy.

This is a scary change for me, and part of me wants to point out the impact so far---no remodel, may have to sell the house, may have to put the kids in school to work, etc---and tell him this change in attitude makes me anxious.

Bad idea? Just keep my mouth shut and deal with it through mediation? Help.

A preliminary thought on this: you can have all the conversations you want with H on this topic, and you can extract promises/commitments that hopefully he will live up to, but until you two reduce something to writing like a mediation agreement or a divorce decree (with Court approval), it won't matter and he can always change his mind. So, my point is, the peace of mind you are hoping to get from any convos is only as good as your H's willingness to honor anything coming out of those convos.

Given the content of your conversation, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that he's definately interested in you. If he was interested in you while you were married . . .

...then he might still be interested? Is that where you're going? And yeah, reflecting on that conversation is what finally caused a light bulb to go off in my thick head.

I think he is almost certainly interested. Has he been married? Does he have kids? If not, get ready for your new trickiness to dating. How old is he? How mature? Not that you shouldn't be worried, but this guy may not have considered what a R with you would really look like (not that your're going there yet), so if and when it gets to that point be ready to watch (or help) him stumble through it.

Get your separation agreement in place first....Then, if you want to go for a beer/coffee with the guy, go ahead.

So you're saying it'd be a date, even if he's the only one who might be looking for something? (That was my friend's position: only one person has to be interested for it to be a date.)

Oh, now I see her/his point. I don't think it's a date if you're open and honest with him. If he hears the right words, but still is interested, well he's a big boy and can choose to enter that situation.

Regardless, though H is clearly open to dating (and told me early on he'd know I'm okay when I start dating), you still think I need a legal doc in place before I have coffee with the guy?

FWIW, I don't.

especially since COW's psycho ex announced to everyone that COW and H were having an affair before H ever dropped the bomb, but then again he also said COW and *I* were having an affair).

Even though the part about you was flawed, still very interesting.

I haven't been back since H dropped the bomb. I've assumed that everyone knows far more about my sitch than I'd care to share, and to be honest, my pride won't let me go.

Lately I've been thinking that for the sake of humility---Homer's "why not me?"---I might go back. I think I've overestimated who knows (or cares), and I feel like I've lost something---to my pride, and to H and COW---that was MINE.

And lastly, I could have a beer with this guy there without it being a date.

Thoughts?

Screw all of them. They will think what they want. You can't control what they think, hear, know or care. You can only control you. Handle this however YOU WANT to. Focus on you!

What I'm thinking is some good convo and a bit of an ego boost.

I like it.

I've a call in to my acquaintance the family court judge.

Excellent! Ask him if there is any risk to you dating. Is there fault-based D there?

H and I obviously haven't been talking very much, but losing his job isn't something I was aware I might need to be concerned about. I just feel like he's falling apart. He just got a huge promotion, they love him, but his new "I'll just say what I think and if they don't like it they can f**k themselves" might end up hurting me in a way I hadn't anticipated.

Is he MLC? Have you considered that?

I realized something. H was all about "being adult" about all this, didn't want the kids to sense my ambivalence about the S, etc etc, but his behavior toward me has been horrendous in a silent way. Again, something I wish I could point out in a nonemotional way, like, "Hey, do you have the impression the kids have noticed that you haven't spoken to me in weeks? Do you think that might have a negative impact on them?"

You could try it. To me, normal DB rules don't apply as strongly when the kids' interests are at issue. Would be better to raise it with the CP you're going to talk to, I think.

Hee hee. I don't know. Back in the day I was a pretty free-wheelin' gal.

Please provide some specific examples.

Funny that both Heim & Nomo have both dated & both think you're not ready, & I, who usually says no, says yes. Interesting!

Ooh, that is interesting. Let me know when you figure it out! Anything to say about that, Heim and Nomo? Purely a matter of you guys having had more time?

See above. Yes, though, time is an issue. You're newbie still, technically at least.

I have the impression that H is utterly self-absorbed right now

Gee, you think????

Nomo, re dating: gotcha. [. . . ] I was thinking today, what do you do if your friend admits to becoming more attached than she intended to?

Oh, she's pretty smitten (so she says). Though I don't think more than she "intended." But what do i do? Nothing different. What am I missing? We've been honest about our respective sitches, and even discussed these types of points specifically more than once. So, like I've said, we're both eyes wide open about the complications and the risks.

would you want H to be dating now?

But he is. He's letting go, focusing on what he wants, moving forward. Puddle can do the same (focus on her, what she wants, let go of the M, etc.), whenever she's ready.

Just had a friendly talk with H, during which we agreed that we don't want the D to be nasty, we want to work together, neither wants to see the other screwed, etc---generally very positive stuff.

Good stuff. Sorry you are/were sad. To be expected. ((((Puddle))))

H told me his father shared his experience about his own D (from H's mom, one very, very mentally ill woman) and expressed concern that H not screw himself in the same way.

Just hearing that FIL would possibly compare me with H's mom made me cry.

Don't take this personally. It's really not about you. Just FIL, drawing on his own experience, to try to help his extremely confused son.

H reassured me that his job's not in danger, that he's committed to homeschooling the kids as long as it's working for the three of us, that there's no rush to sell the house, etc.

Excellent.

I didn't realize he was on depression meds too. this just seems more of a problem with his own love of himself, and security in himself... and part mlc too.. I wouldn't be shocked to find that a year or two from now...if in fact the whole D thing does go thru that he discovers that leaving you didn't make him happy after all and that he made the biggest mistake of his life.

I agree! Well said, ST.

I'm more nervous about the question, "So why haven't you been around?" than losing control and doing something I regret.

Try - "I've been busy."

Today he sent me an email saying many kind things, including that that was the most honest conversation we've had in a long time and it "means a lot" that I was willing to be vulnerable. Hey, one long-ago, half-forgotten goal met!

Well that's good. There are some positives in your sitch to build a healthy R going forward, if not to save your M. So, it could be worse.

I'm feeling a lot better today. Other things H said in his email: he's committed to a fair and peaceful split; he's committed to supporting us so I won't have to work (?); he's committed to being honest; and he trusts me.

Good.

He also apologized again for being so grumpy, said it wasn't directed at me but I must have felt it; said he's working hard at getting his head out of his a$$ (says he'll need forceps, it's lodged in there so well).

Maybe I could be of some assitance.

OK, so I can see you tonight having a drink, what I wouldnt give to be a fly on the wall

I'd rather be the guy across the table.

I've been mulling over whether to come clean to this guy about why I haven't been around the hangout, just in case he says, "Hey, I had drinks with Puddle!" and H and possibly COW are sitting there. Now I'm thinking maybe H is the person to tell; I'd hate for him to hear that from someone else.

I wouldn't tell H. None of his business about the particulars, right? He wants to date, and wants you to date. That's all he needs to know, IMO. But I would tell this guy, if you have any interest in him or if he expresses any in you, that you and H are separating/divorcing (whatever is true). You could also tell him it's not public really, to your knowledge, and you'd appreciate it if he didn't spread it around yet. Just my thoughts.

I just got a timely email from COW, saying we're not a hot gossip item, she hasn't said anything (though a few people know), everyone's asking about me, she'd like to see me and hopes it wouldn't be awkward for me. She's still sad about the whole thing.

I'd just been thinking about her, thinking poor kid! The last thing that girl needs is another bunch of screwed-up friends.

I wrote back, said thanks for the discretion and the reassurances, that I wouldn't mind seeing her, glad H has a friend. Told her I'm thinking about making an appearance.

This feels way too much like high school. Thoughts?

Doesn't sound too bad. As always, FOCUS ON YOU AND WHAT YOU WANT. REALLY. WHAT DO YOU WANT VIS A VIS COW???? TONIGHT??? THE OTHER GUY???

Puddle, this focusing on you is the KEY. I don't sense you have that going on yet as much as you will. The faster you get there, the better.

Good luck, and keep up the good work,
Nomo