oh, also... she doesnt tend to bring things up at random. she tends to stew. So its not so much a matter of me walking away when she brings things up.
It's more a matter of,
- I bring up something nice. either something i'd like to offer her as a gift, or a suggestion on something fun to do., or...
- she replies with, "[decline], I'm still harboring a lot of anger at you, from [yesterday/last week/last month]". So, "no". with implications to me of, "and I'll never do anything ELSE that you would like either.. i have no desire to forgive or forget this incident"
How would you suggest I respond in that situation?
Last edited by Dom R; 10/23/0701:24 AM.
My current status: june 2006. Wife ran out and filed D. Finalized Jan 11, 2010, after 12.5 years M. 3 wonderful sons caught in the middle
You can't win when the other person won't play fair. She has decided to treat you with contempt, and she will continue to do that until she sees that it nets her nothing.
In my past I could be ugly to my husband, somewhat like your wife, but not to such an extreme. He reacted by treating me with contempt too. That did not make the situation better. It made it worse. Then he withdrew completely and started an affair with another woman. At that point I realized that my lifestyle had been jeopardized by my behavior. (I do not believe that all wives are as reasonable as I and would understand their own culpability, but I did.) It was at that point that we started to change things. You know that Retrouvaille worked for us. I know it doesn't work for everyone. Anyway, you know the rest of my story. It was when I really stood to lose him that I woke up and fought for my husband. Short of that I don't believe you can change your wife's behavior.
Agreed. You cant win. For now, forget about bringing up something nice, getting her gifts, or talking of fun things to do. They all will be percieved as controling. Like my WAW, she sounds like she suppressed anger for a lot of years and now is enjoying the power of letting you have it.
Give her some space. If she is ever going to open back up to you, it will have to be on her terms, on her timetable, and by her initiation.
Be strong
Me-46;W-42 Together 23 yrs Married 16 S11 S8 S6 02/10/03 Her 1st affair 10/01/06 Sep Bomb 01/01/07 Sep Begins 03/09/07 Her 2nd affair
As a member of this club, you are NEVER going to make her happy, until(And if) she is ever ready to do that. It's like whack-a-mole. As soon as you think you've addressed an issue, another oblique or unrelated one will crop up. There is not rhyhme or reason to it. I believe it's all a smokescreen for hurt, disappointment, frustration with herself and the situation. No on leaves 3 kids and has 2 EAs if they're rational.
You therefore, can have NO EXPECTATIONS of rational responses. Be the best person you can be, the most supportive you can be, setting clear boundaries, which is tough with an irrational person.
You will be in your best frame of mind if you can get to the point where you can accept that it may be over, and try and move on. Anything else will be gravy. When I gave her contempt and anger back, it didn't stop the anger, it made it more irrational and vitriolic.
I don't know. She might also be stubborn enough to lose him in order to keep her pride intact. That sounds like playing with fire to me.
Dom, so far the best advice I heard is the strong, respectful approach. If she starts bashing you, politely walk away. I think the combination of self-assurance and respect will be a litle surprising for her.
Dom, I'm of the frame of mind that if someone *insists* on holding a grudge and keeping you in a certain box (ie, "Dom is controlling") then it doesn't really matter what you do.
People have a great way of rationalizing their behaviors. The ego strives to be in control and not let the heart be in control. Someone that has decided you are a certain way will go to all extremes to 'prove it'.
Heck, the other night, my H (while drunk) went off on a rant about how he LOVES Lennon and I DONT like Lennon. (Not entirely true-Lennon is fine.) It was obvious he was trying to put this 'arrow' into the quiver of "why we shouldn't be together". Stupid.
I did read somewhere that even when someone is being irrational (in our eyes) they are not being irrational in their eyes. The trick is to find out what the real issue is. To try to see it from their perspective and then approach it with understanding so they no longer have to "defend" their position.
Easier said than done and maybe all you can do is set appropriate boundaries and not let her use that sort of emotional/no-win bludgeoning.
Me-43 H-46 M 12 yrs 7/09 T 15 2 grown kids bomb 7/05/07 H moved out 8/04/07 11/22/09 told him I quit;let's get ball rolling Mid Dec- he isn't sure he wants D End 2/2010-Starting to consider piecing
Yes, I discovered my thread had locked! Thanks for visiting. Now on to yours...lol.
Quote:
Hmm... sounds appealing to ME, at least.. but i'm not sure how I can do that, without seeming rude to HER.
She has, in the past, blocked positive guestures from me, for some number of days/weeks after some fight, with, "I'm still mad at you over ..."
If she keeps bringing it up any time I try to be nice...
Number one......stop being nice whenever she brings it up....you apologized.....that's enough. She is using you! Number two....if you appear to be rude to her....she can get over it. What you have done so far hasn't worked anyway. What do you have to loose? She is using you Dom. How do I know....by what you said about the positive gesters. She is using it all to her advantage. I saw girls in high school act this way with their boyfriends, but it is sad to think grown women use this technique. It is a technique, Dom. You need to wake up to that fact. I can't believe she has gotten away with it all this time. She must be very good or very cleaver about it.
Ok, I see her as a woman who throws a fit to get her way. Maybe she doesn't exactly throw a "fit" but instead, she is saying by her actions....."You had better do everything just the way I want...or else I will make your life miserable by showing you just how mad I can be at you!" Apparently, she is the type of female who can hold onto a grude a long time.....that is worse than blowing up and getting over it. That is a form of blackmail. Plus, she knows you DomR! She knows that you believe in practicing good manners and that yes...you are going to be "polite" to her. So, do a 180 and walk away when she is not using polite manners and showing her rudeness. Why should you stay there and be beaten up by this woman? You don't have to mean about it....just inform her that you are not going to discuss it anymore or that you have said all you intend to say on that subject and tell you you are leaving now. Then stay cool and calm....and just walk away and leave her in her stew.
I know for a fact that my H would walk away from me and I can tell you that I don't play those games with him. Yes, in the past it would make me furious for him to leave when I wanted to fight! But, guess what.......I learned to control my temper (and I also learned I couldn't control him), and I have learned not to keep bringing up things from the past that should be forgotten. When somebody says that they are sorry for .....whatever.....if the other person is not mature enough to do the right thing....then they do not deserve to be treated with politness. Some females (and I'm not saying that your W is one of these, but if the shoe fits.....)find ways of punishing their H over and over again. For some, it is a means of controll.
Anyway, I strongly believe that if you tried this that you may find (eventually)the solution to the problem. It may make her extremely furious the first time (as soon as she gets over the shock)but if you will stick to your guns.....she has no choice but to stop playing her little game. She cannot be a winner if you refuse to play the game. That is what you are doing by walking away.......you are refusing to play her game. Don't look at it as being rude. (And, don'tuse that as an excuse,either,) To me, it is the manly thing to do instead of staying there and letting her do her "job" on you. I can tell you from a woman's POV that as long as you allow her to get away with doing that....she will not respect you! Did you hear that? No woman will respect a man that she can do that to. That is something she probably did when she was a little girl.........she kept certain people dancing to her music by telling them she had not let them off the hook yet b/c she was still mad at them over....whatever. God! It makes me mad to think about her doing that! Does she do that with the children also? I bet they never get through paying penitence! That is what she is wanting you to do, you know, pay and keep paying penitence until she says it's enough (and of course, it never is enough). I wouldn't be surprised if that is not why you two are S now.....it is your punishment. (You bad boy, you!)If she thought you were always trying to be the "controller" in the R.....perhaps that was her way of taking back the control. Hummmmmmmmmm...........
So, she is the real talker in the family, huh? Well, blow me down! So, do you have a hard time getting a word in edge-wise? I am trying to get a picture in my head. Perhaps I saw you as a talker due to the posts you had sent me. But, I was on target when I said you were a fixer. At least I got something right (lol). So, in doing all this talking, does she want to dominate the conversation and just talk about what she choses? If so, then she choses NOT to talk about the R.....right? Hummmmmm....... Again....control. It seems to me that it all keeps coming back to who has the most power between the two of you. I guess I could go back and read again the early stitch, but can you briefly tell me why you two never D and have settled for a S? Is she pushing for a D? Has there ever been OM?
Ok, I'll stop with the questions for a little while...lol. Hope you will evaluate what I've said and then let me know if I hit any targets. Remember how differently men and women think and act when you start to size this up. I will be anxious to hear from you. BTW, when is you next family day?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I bring up something nice. either something i'd like to offer her as a gift, or a suggestion on something fun to do., or...
- she replies with, "[decline], I'm still harboring a lot of anger at you, from [yesterday/last week/last month]". So, "no". with implications to me of, "and I'll never do anything ELSE that you would like either.. i have no desire to forgive or forget this incident"
Well, again I think it is her control over you. She knows you will buckle down and she can hurt you that way. I think that even if you are seen as kind of pushy in our posts......you are a nice guy! Maybe too nice for your own good. Gee whiz, I never thought I would say that. But, sad to say, some men are too good for their own good and some women do not know how to appreciate a good man. Like I said before, what yo have done has not worked, so try a 180.
After you tell me briefly the stitch behind the S, then I may change my mind, but I wonder if you changed you attentive ways if she might get her eyes opened. If she is sure that you do not want a D and you bend of backward to "please" her and hopefully keep her happy .....and for gosh sakes hope she doesn't get mad about anything....then, sweetie, she has got it made in the shade.
Listen, I have known females that used this form of blackmail on their parents, friends, children, and most of all their H. It is awful the way people cater to them b/c they don't want to endure their wrath. Some men do the same thing.....just with a little different approach or technique. I hate it! Sometimes, these type of people end up without anyone b/c they burn everybody out. People finally get enough and give up on them since nothing will please them except having their own way about everything in life. Of course, that is impossible.......so some things can't be controlled. Have you ever seen her that way with others and other situations in life....or is it just with you? That would be interesting to know.
What about the LRT? Have you thought about that, or....are you afraid to risk it? I have a feeling that you are holding on to the M so tightly that you are afraid to risk her wrath and afaid she will file for D. Am I right?
(((DomR))) I hate this for you.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Well, sweetie, I hope if you have children, you won't consider that pattern by which to raise them. If you do, you are in for a very bad time of it. I have worked with children for many years and I can tell you that that is not the way to go. They aren't trying to be "heard" ....they are trying to have their way about everything. And the second verse to that song goes like this....the more of their way they get--the more they will demand. Now, you can take this advice from what you probably consider an old woman that doesn't know much, or you can follow that other advice and raise a tyrant. But, I sure hope you won't listen to the foolish writings of some theories. ((hug)).
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
