still trying, now separating

[still trying]

I know, it's just hard and I have days I wonder if I have what it takes to stick it out. And while I have no idea if a separation will be good for us or not I do feel somewhat relieved to take a break and not have to worry so much about the bad days. I'm keeping hope alive by remembering that she does still love me and that if I can in fact stick it out and show her what I can be, there is a good chance we'll have another shot. And at least she does still have her doubts and wants to hope it can work out.

I figure the separation will go one of two ways. We'll either take some time to ourselves and then start talking and sharing and going on dates again, or she'll just continue to shut me out and we'll drift apart. I have to figure out how to keep the door open and keep the connection alive without pursuing or seeming needy.

[soul_mate]

I have to figure out how to keep the door open and keep the connection alive without pursuing or seeming needy.

This is key and is also a very difficult thing to figure out. Don't take her words to heart keep trying because you know deep down she is a wonderful person.

[mkultra]

Hi, I think if you do feel that the Sep is inevitable that you do not budge if you are really the one who ride out the storm to save the M in the long run. Do not leave the house and avoid any separation. Yes, it is most likely a path to divorce. Of course it can be a path to your own self discovery etc, but the odds may be stacked against you if you sep. It is not impossible to save your marriage but it could mean two different things to you both. For me, I initiated the sep then regretted it. But looking back now, I see that my H actually did push me into it because of some emotional and verbal abuse,, so i had no choice but to separate. I believe in DR so it is a great resource. Separation may look tempting and I am much happier that he is gone from the house but it will most likely just be an ending to my marriage. A more happy ending would have been the both of us going to Retro and being more open, and of course no affair!!! But I think the Sep to me , meant he would get his act together, get a job, quit drinking, get therapy. To him, it meant , now he can go whore around.

[soul_mate]

Mkultra do you think he would have went to Retro? If your spouse is willing to do something like go to Retro then I agree this is much better than separating. The problem is you need a willing partner that wants to work on the M. I know for me if my W ever get to a point where she may want to work on the M that I will be the first to suggest going to Retro.

[Dom R]

No, you misunderstand me. I do believe that one person can make a difference. However, the difference you can do is to make changes and hope that they will choose to come back to you. You cannot fix the M alone, it requires their willing participation.

nope, thats not what DB says :-)

DB isn't about fixing the M, it's about getting your R to a place where they are willing to work with you on fixing the M.

i'd say it's about fixing your behaviour, to effect changes in your marriage, to the point where they are willing to stay in it.
IDEALLY, they will be motivated to also try stuff. but that is not what DB is about. i think you're getting confused with marriagebuilders books or something

Again though, I don't have a choice here. We're going to separate. I have no say in that.

yes, you do. She has said that she wants to separate, based on HER conditions.
You DO NOT KNOW if she will still separate, if she has to do all the work herself and actually move out 100% full time.

But wait, there's more...

It sounds like you need help managing a REAL relationship. getting back to a fake long-distance one, wont solve your "real relationship" problems. you gotta learn something new, to do that.

Actually I think what's been missing from our R was the very thing we had during that long distance phase. We talked for hours every day, shared our independent lives with each other, supported each other, etc.

Anyone can have that frufru stuff, if they dont have a real life relationship.
The work part, of "marriage takes work", comes from working on keep sharing that stuff, while you also have conflict over the day-to-day- living together problems.

It really sucks because here I am, for the first time really ready to be what she needs. I want to talk to her for hours, not because I'm needy but because this has woken me up and made me see what an amazing woman she is. And now of course we have had times where we've had those really good talks and all I get out of it is that it's because she said the M is done that we're just friends now and it proves we're better as friends than spouses.

I dont think that that is ALL she needs. to just "talk for hours". I'd bet dollars to donuts she needs more than just that. But even if that is it; if you separate, and you "talk for hours", you have just proven her point: that you are better off separated, than living together.


So, the really important questions:
Why is "now" different from the last few months, of what you describe as "ineffectual"?

What would you do differently now, if she stayed?
Please dont avoid the question by saying, "she's not going to stay...." Just say why and how you think you are really changed now, rather than just desparate?

[Dom R]

For me, I initiated the sep then regretted it. But looking back now, I see that my H actually did push me into it because of some emotional and verbal abuse,, so i had no choice but to separate.

Mkultra:
you had a choice. Multiple choices, really.
What you said there, is revisionist history, similar to what most leavers do, to justify walking out on the marriage. you are looking to deny your responsability for your own actions.

[still trying]

What would you do differently now, if she stayed?

The honest answer? If she did nothing differently I'd probably just avoid her as much as I could and continue to resent her until I finally decided I've had enough and left. What should I do differently if she stayed? I haven't the slightest idea.

Yeah, she loves me and still cares about me and still on some level hopes we can work things out. There is only so long I can sit here trying being rejected at every turn. No I'm not giving up but I need a break. I'm getting closer and closer to a point of indifference where I don't really care either way as long as I get some resolution.

Plus, sorry, I know my W and it isn't a question of whether she'd go or not. She's going to go. It's either going to be amicable, or a battle. It isn't a question. You can say that she might not go if she had to do 100% of the effort. Sorry, she will.

[Dom R]

If she did nothing differently I'd probably just avoid her as much as I could and continue to resent her until I finally decided I've had enough and left.

your words and motivations seem all over the map.

From this latest post of yours:
Sounds like you're done working. In which case... why are you trying so hard to help her separate, then?
Is it really so that YOU can move on, and find someone else?

If not: then let your actions match your words... and simply ignore her. If she wants to move out, then she'll move out, and you'll still get that "time to yourself", that you claim you want.

You can say that she might not go if she had to do 100% of the effort. Sorry, she will.

That may be true. There's also a question of how long she would stay separate, if she has to do that, vs if she has the relatively comfy situation.

the more comfy you help her to make it, the longer she will stay away.


Bottom line: I dont think she knows what she wants, and I dont think YOU know what you want, either. You cant seem to decide, if you want to keep trying to work on your marriage, or quit. You cant decide if you want her to stay around, or to get out of your life so you can have more free time to play around.

I think you should go sit somewhere and figure that out.
Then come back and post what you have decided

[still trying]

Basically, my position is this... I'm not ready to give up, but I am ready to go on hold, stop trying and spend some time on me until she figures out what she wants.

We just talked a little bit tonight, she asked if I had checked out the apartment and I said that I hadn't yet and asked her if she was sure this is what she wanted. She said she thought it's what needed to happen. Didn't say she wanted it. Grrr....

We talked about it some more and I asked her what she hoped to get out of this separation, if she was viewing it as a way to get away from me or a way to make divorce easier or a way to save our marriage or what. She basically said she doesn't know what's going to happen, but that she felt a lot better the other night when we agreed on this, and now she feels confused again like I'm not on the same page. I told her that I already said it's not what I wanted but I wasn't going to fight her on it, I just wanted to make sure this is what she really wants.

So she said what she really wants is to get over the resentment she has for me, that sitting around every night looking at me she just resents me more and more because for years I didn't give a [censored] and now here I am ready to be what she needs and it makes her resentful of all the years I didn't care. I asked if she thought the separation would be a time for her to get over the resentment and she said yes.

So what do I know... On the plus side she seems to actually realize now that I am capable of being what she needs and she just feels she has to get over the resentment after years of neglect. I'm pretty sure refusing a separation will build more resentment. Granted they say not to trust what she says, but based on our last few discussions she actually seems to be coming around to believing that I can in fact be the person she needs. That's hopeful, right?

So my position on the separation? Not what I want. However, I know that the more I sit around here, the more resentful she gets (I can see it in the way she treats me) and the more resentful I get not having any of my needs met. I see it only spiraling downhill, and I think completely ignoring her is just going to piss her off even more.

So I'm back where I started. I'm ready to get a life, enjoy myself, focus on me. I'm not going to date or go out and try and meet someone else, and I'm not going to give up. I'm going to continue to show her I can be what she needs, from a distance, and give her some time to get over her resentment. Maybe we'll split up, maybe we won't. I just feel like there's not much else I can do right now. She has to give up her anger, she has to forgive me. That's her thing, I can't help with that. I can't think of anything I can possibly do to help her with that. If I just ignore her, it reminds her of the fact that I can't be what she needs. If I try to engage her and be there for her, it reminds her of the years I wasn't there and pisses her off that all of the sudden now I'm that person. No win either way...

[Dom R]

Sounds like a great talk you had!

ST; i think that you (and your wife!) really need to do more reading on this kind of situation.
And/or get a *good* (check for recommendations first!) marital counsellor.

From what I've read, it's pretty common for the spouse to have heavy resentment, when the careless spouse finally seems like they want to actually DO something, after years of not doing much.

I just feel like there's not much else I can do right now.

There are quite a few things you can do!!
But you have to choose to make the effort, to go find out about them.

So she said what she really wants is to get over the resentment she has for me, that sitting around every night looking at me she just resents me more and more because for years I didn't give a [censored] and now here I am ready to be what she needs and it makes her resentful of all the years I didn't care.

It sounds like she may be cooling off a little, from the "you need to separate" phase.
She may calm down a little further, all by herself.

It sounds like what the two of you need most of all right now, is a good MC. and the LAST thing you need, is a separation.

If I try to engage her and be there for her, it reminds her of the years I wasn't there and pisses her off that all of the sudden now I'm that person. No win either way...

My advice to you, is not not try to "prove" something to her. becase you'll overdo it. Some marriage books advise in this situation, to just treat her in the positive way you would, if you would live together.

If you are right about her liking to talk, then a modified approach to this might be:

be around the house. Do basic nice things. Have pleasant conversations with her, when she initiates or seems interested in talking...and then only for as long as she seems willing to.

ST, may i suggest that you actually go read one of the marriage builders books on this stuff, because it sounds exactly what you need right now.
DB books are more about "tactical", immediate stuff.. but sounds like you need a bit more focus on a longer term attitude/behaviour pattern.

What I'm describing is called by those folks as "Plan A".
You basically decide to be nice to her, consistently, when you are around her, but dont crowd her. give her space when she wants it too.

If things arent at crisis point between you two (and it does NOT actually sound like they are), then just sticking to this for a month, may let things cool off.

But the thing is, you actually have to be sure that you are really commited to treat her right like this. For the rest of your life.

I'm really saddened by reading the way you describe your lack of commitment to your marriage. your lack of commitment to work at it.
you are sounding like the stereotype of men, that some women bandy about; a guy who just tries for a bit... and then slacks off one way or another. ie: "if she comes back, mission accomplished. stop". "If she doesnt... well, it's not worth the effort to keep trying".

If that's really your attitude.... then forget about what you feel about the whole thing.. your wife is actually better without YOU!

It doesnt sound to me like you are "that person" that she is looking for yet. You might become him, someday. But I'm fairly sure that she wants someone who is willing to keep working on your marriage, for at LEAST as long as she has put up with your apathy. How many years has that been, hmmm?