impossible situation #2

[Dom R]

maybe it would have worked if you had approached it as, "I'd like to sit down and talk to you. when would be a good time?"

yeah.. that's the nice, reasonable way to handle it.
however, it's difficult to approach in a reasonable fashion, when the response to reasonableness is most often,
"I'm too busy today"
"I'm too stressed"
"bad week for me"
... and so on and so on.
Pre-arranged times to talk, very rarely actually come to pass, it seems like. especially if it's an issue that she doesnt want to discuss.
If she can tell I'm really pissed or angry at something, she might talk to me in a reasonable timeframe. But if it's anything to do with our relationship, whether that be big-M talk, or at a somewhat more casual level... she usually repeatedly evades, until she wears me down enough to not ask again.

if I ask her to do something, "let me check my calendar" (never hear from her again)

If I ask her to talk, then half the time, it's "we can talk on my break tomorrow; i should have lots of time then", but somehow, if we do actually talk, it usually ends up being only 5 minutes.

or, "we can talk tomorrow night"... [more excuses, etc. when the time actually rolls around]


I guess if something works 10% of the time, as opposed to 0% of the time, I should go with the 10% one.
its just really frustrating, when I feel like we have to talk about something soon.

thats what led me to use that tactic this time. and made things horribly worse.


Really, I think that most of our major problems, have come from me trying to "push" talks, or something, due to what I felt to be external time pressure....

I guess I should learn that it always leads to disaster, if I let "the deadline" run my thinking.

tough to have any kind of adult, rational relationship with her that way, though...


--------------------

But... I still really need more tips on how to defuse her anger now

[SallyM]

sorry, had to cut off quickly there...realized the time and needed to put the kids to bed.

yeah, it would be nice to diffuse the anger and figure out what is best for her not to stew and stuff, but honestly, that is something she has to do, you can't do it for her. it sucks, but there is is. you can't change her..nothing you do will change her. you can influence her subtly by changing your own behavior, you can try not to let it get to you, or pretend that it doesn't (read mark's posts over on infidelity, i swear the man is a master at it).

wish I had more words of wisdom for you. its hard when things are not logical. it would be nice if there was a roadmap that would let us know the right paths to take and such.

good luck!

[SallyM]

yeah, I can see how that is frustrating. I don't know what most of the talks are about. maybe its time to set some bounderies...if its about bills, e-mail her (or talk to her, I find e-mail better for some reason) and say you need to sit down by x date to talk about bills. give her a choice of dates, see what works for her, but also let her know if said talk doesn't happen by x date, you'll understand that this is something she prefers you to handle as you see fit. if she bails or avoids, well, do what works for you. then act as if till it kills you.

maybe? I don't know. I guess that is one good thing, H and I have many, many issues, but we co-parent well and deal with business things well (for the most part).

eta, just re-read your last post. why the M/R talks? if she is avoiding them, well, that tells you something right there. make your own choices in the matter. I'm not saying its easy to do. I'm trying to think of an instance where H and I have a M/R talk, and I because of our situation, we don't right now. I know its normal in separations. do you guys have a MC? maybe keep it to sessions with the MC? or if you guys don't, maybe suggest one? or if that isn't an option, and she still doesn't want to talk R/M and you still do, well, wow, I don't know what to say.

not much help here, am I?

[Dom R]

i appreciate the attempts :-)
nope, wife is strongly ANTI-counsellor, or anything like that (see other "impossible" thread :-/

Many moons ago, she did one token by-herself session with an MC. never did any of his suggestions, or talk to him again.

I havent tried M/R talks for quite a while, btw. hence probably why the improvement in our recent stuff.
I was hoping that, if I tried to have a talk about improving "communication" between us, it wouldnt flag the anti-R defenses.
Nope.

Was bad timing, too. She was still kinda pissy about the underlying issue. If she wasnt.. she MIGHT have been more receptive to what I was saying. Sadly, though, it was because of the underlying issue, that I felt I had to push to "talk now".

gah. well, that was a(nother) bad choice on my part, i guess.

PS: I was surprised by your statement that M/R talks were "normal" in a separation situation.
maybe you mean a "controlled separation" or similar.

our "separation", is; "there's a divorce that she filed, that is still pending. We're living separately"

[SallyM]

when I said they were normal, I was thinking in terms of my friend who is a therapist and what she has told me. she told me when it was becoming clear that h and i were headed for separation, that it can be a good thing for some couples. she recommends it for some of her clients...it can actually speed reconciliation along in some cases. they have interaction only when she is present for a bit, then slowly rebuild to times when she isn't with them. so yeah, a lot of separations take place with counseling in place.

my situation isn't like that, of course. our mc stopped seeing us as a couple when it became clear that H wasn't going to stop seeing ow. so when we separated, no mc in place. which my friend was concerned about, much harder for things to work out w/o that neutral 3rd party involvment.

big difference, too, when divorce is filed. different kind of separation. sucky. I'm sorry.

[Dr.mom]

Totally off the wall here, ignore if this is too batty. But what about validating her "madness", her anger, about whatever subject you are talking about?

Does anyone recall a recent bestseller about infant/child rearing, something like "the Happiest Baby on the Block". I remember hearing an interview with the author on public radio one night.

He was all into treating toddlers like "Cavemen", with rudimentary language and communication skills. One thing that always stuck in my mind was how he told parents to VALIDATE the child's temper tantrum. That the child just wants to be heard.

For example, if it is raining and the child want to go out to play. You say "No", because you are an adult, and you see it is raining and not an appropriate time to play in the sandbox. Well, the toddler can't reason that far. So instead of wasting breath, trying to explain, or reason, to the child WHY they can't go outside, you just get angry right along with them. Stomp your feet, whine, pout and yell right along with them, about how YOU are so mad and upset that YOU can't go outside either! Darn RAIN! Mean Mommy! ME want to go outside TOO! ME ! ME! Want to PLAY!!!!!

Supposedly it validates the child's feelings and the temper tantrum stops.

Disclaimer: I have no children, so I have no idea how this works. However, I am starting to learn that if I think and act like the immature 6-year old my husband is, we seem to have a meeting of minds.

What if you express your anger at the subject matter as well? Would that totally blow her right out of the water?

(PS. I know how hard this is, walking on eggshells, being afraid to say the wrong thing . . .)

[Dom R]

I can understand validating anger, at a third party, like "rain".
Not sure how I can validate anger, when the apparent target is me.

I did try to validate her views on the underlying issue we had conflict on. I guess that's how come she talked about it as long as she did, before going to "Tell me about the school thing!" mode.
In some ways, it was an amazing improvement over past attempts at talking about an issue. I think that in the past, she would have blown up a lot sooner, but she was tired, too.

Hope she's feeling better today.
Probably wont get to talk to her until tomorrow. that could be a good thing i suppose.

[mkultra]

Pony, that is genious. It is like dealing with the terrible twos or miserable threes. I wonder if we could call that Spouse Whispering? Pssst!

[sandi2]

Hi DomR,

Well, this is a switch.....me talking on your thread (lol). You haven't been to visit me on my thread lately, so I thought I would look you up.

In response to what I'm reading here, I would say that both you and your W are very strong willed people! Also, Dom, I know from my own personal experience with you posting to me (and don't take this the wrong way) that you do get pretty "pushing" at times. Like the time I was sick for.....like one day... and you were about to come unglued b/c you had not heard back from me as soon as you thought I should respond. Also, it was like I had no excuses not to do what you suggested on any particular post. You know I say all this with love, right? (lol) Well, seriously though, you may have those traits that crash against your W's. Sometimes we don't always tell the other S....or else they don't listen when we do try to tell them.....that they have some personality quirk that we don't like about them. It could be that she just shuts down whenever you try to talk about anything b/c she has a hangup about you "talking"....period. Maybe she thinks you get to over-bearing....or too "preachy"....or whatever, but it is something there that is doing a number on her and I think you need to stop. It is not working is it? If it were me.....(lol) you would tell me to stop talking b/c it is not working.

First of all, you probably wonder how you can work things out if you can't talk. You and I are "talkers"......so it is hard not to TALK!......talk and talk and talk. Do you think there is a chance that you have done too much of that? I don't know.....I'm just throwing around possibilities. I think you are a "fixer" also and I would guess that you try to offer her a lot of "suggestions" to fix whatever problem there may be in her life. She knows when you want to talk about the R that you are going to tell her what you think needs to be done. Being strong-willed....she probably doesn't want to hear that. I don't think she really has to be stong willed to not want to hear it. I think that is the way my kids always saw me and that is why they sort of "shut down" whenever I would start to tell them what I thought. (lol)

How long have you and your W been S? How often do you see her? Are you always ready to talk about the R, family or business.....or whatever? What do you do when you get together? (I am just full of questions, aren't I?)

As you know, my H has never been a talker and it drives me crazy, however, I have learned that we can be together and not talk. It is possible. Maybe you should just try it out for size and see what happens. As I said, trying to talk with her now is certainly not working.

As far as what to do about her being mad.........I think she probably is one that holds grudges and there is not one thing you can do about that. My advice would be to apologize when you know you are wrong.....and then live and let live. Go on and be relaxed, cool and fun. If she chooses to get mad....she would anyway, so you might as well be the best you can be and just let her stew in her on soup. If she trys to keep bringing it up after you apologized....tell her you aren't going to re-hash that again. Refuse to talk about it...walk away if you have to. but don't allow her to push your buttons and get into a verbal fight. By doing that, you are letting her know that her little emotional blackmail won't work on you.....thereby not getting her way. That goes back to the two strong wills in the M. She is just using a different technique.


Well, it's been nice TALKING to you. (lol) Take care and come visit me.

Sandi

[Dom R]

Hey Sandi! I was wondering how you were doing.. was actually waitng for YOU to post on a new (non-locked?!) thread :-)

Thanks for your reply. I'm not exactly a talker. but I sure am a fixer. and if i think that fixing something needs to be done by talking...then I talk until it's fixed! or at least, I want to

She knows when you want to talk about the R that you are going to tell her what you think needs to be done. Being strong-willed....she probably doesn't want to hear that.

yup, reckon you're right on there...along with the whole "over-bearing" thing.

The irony is.. she is a talker. Just not about our relationship. I have been trying to have zero R talk in the last few months. and it's been going pretty good.

we've been separated since june 2006
I barely get to see her at all now. We kindasorta "have" to see each other once every two weeks for kid exchange, but not more than that.
Last few months, though, she's actually invited me on the "off" weekend, to do various things with our children. it's been really nice.

I really hope this doesnt set us back 3 months. it would be a real shame.

I'm trying to decide if I should drop her a little online "hi" message or not tonight. When things are neutral between us, sometimes it can be taken positively.

As far as what to do about her being mad.........I think she probably is one that holds grudges and there is not one thing you can do about that. My advice would be to apologize when you know you are wrong.....and then live and let live. Go on and be relaxed, cool and fun.

i guess I'll have to.

If she trys to keep bringing it up after you apologized....tell her you aren't going to re-hash that again. Refuse to talk about it...walk away if you have to. but don't allow her to push your buttons and get into a verbal fight.

Hmm... sounds appealing to ME, at least.. but i'm not sure how I can do that, without seeming rude to HER.

She has, in the past, blocked positive guestures from me, for some number of days/weeks after some fight, with,
"I'm still mad at you over ..."

If she keeps bringing it up any time I try to be nice...

i guess you're saying that I should just politely stop trying to be nice, and walk away?