impossible wife?

[Dom R]

I have just been reminded tonight, of what a lousy relationship I am trying to get myself back into.

These types of behaviours resurfaced over an argument we are having about how to handle the children on an issue:

• She complains and accuses me that "it always has to be [my] way"... but rants that I'm not doing "whats best for the children", whenever I dont do exactly what she wants for the children
• She accuses me of "always needing to be right"... yet I frequently admit whenver I'm wrong... at that the same time, she just about never admits when SHE is wrong.
  I broached the possibility of this to her for the first time, that she is unwilling to ever admit she is ever wrong. Asked if she was willing to even consider the possibility that she might have done something wrong in this area.
  her: "Well, I didnt do anything wrong"
  me: "are you willing to even consider the possibility that you might have done SOMETHING wrong?"
  her: "I didnt do anything wrong!"
• whenever the possibility of her admitting she has done something wrong seems inevitable.. she instead chooses some detail about something, and focuses all her energy on being angry at me about it, so that I'm "in the wrong", rather than her ever admitting she has done something wrong.
• I "dont listen to her". But when she gets worked up about something, she states her opinions, then flies into a fit when I dont do things exactly the way she has planned out, and doesnt listen to my side, when she has said what she has to say.
  "I dont want to discuss this any more. click".
• If i make a mistake in some area, and I honestly apologise.. repeatedly even... she never forgives. She eventually "forgets" about it.. but just about never directly acknowleges an apology by forgiveness.

Apparently, we can get along Just Fine... (we have been getting along fairly well for the last few weeks).. just so long as I do everything she says, and let her do whatever she wants, whenever she wants. Oh, and give her more money whenever she wants more, rather than her just spending less.
[for "child support". except she's spent thousands on other things, and then complains she doesnt have any money.]

ARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGG!!!!


Okay, this was a major "rant" level post, which doesnt usually deserve a response.

But in all seriousness... how I am supposed to deal with a woman, who really, literally, without exaggeration has the trait of, "she's never wrong" ?
And then flies into a fit of anger, and resentfulness, for a MONTH, any time I push back with my opinion?
How am I supposed to work out any kind of reconciliation with a person like this, when there's always going to be issues around our children that we will argue over?

[Dom R]

reflection, after reviewing post... maybe a starting point, will be to hyper-validate her opinions.


she claims I "dont listen to her" and "ignore her", even when I change my plans from what I wanted, to attempt to accomodate her wishes. Yet she still gets mad at me, for not remaking my plans to be EXACTLY what she counter-proposed... arg...

[Sara]

What's that joke? If a man is alone in the forest, is he still wrong? Something like that.

Dom you are suffering from severe communication problems. Of course you are right, everyone is wrong sometimes. Even your wife. And there is more than one way of doing things. Her way is not necessarily better than yours it is just different. I have a mother who is a lot like your wife. She and my father are about to celebrate their 60th anniversary of daily fighting. Quite an accomplishment. They will take time out from the fighting to celebrate and say how wonderful the past 60 years have been, and then they will get in the car to go home and start fighting again.

[Sara]

Sorry, I missed the question....you want to know how to solve this and not be like my parents.

One word.....Retrouvaille. They will teach you and her. (OK you already know), but they will do the talking, not you. And they will be talking about themselves, not you. You will sit there and take it in, and she will hear for the first time, that you are entitled to your feelings. And then they will teach both of you how to communicate by listening with your heart, and respecting the other person's point of view. And in only 2 days they can change her. You will change too. The whole dynamic of your relationship will change. And then you will be ready to begin talking about the issues in your lives that are difficult. Look for a weekend near you at http://www.helpourmarriage.com.

The other good thing is that even the worst children eventually grow up, and you can stop arguing about how to raise them.

[FLTC]

Dom,

I've been casually following your posts, but don't get a lot of time to post here in Iraq, but your post struck a chord with me, simply because I could have written your post about MY situation.

Someone I talked to called it "undifferentiated anger". It seems to have no real basis, except the overall "I'm unhappy in the marriage" roots. I, like you, am trying to re-enter into the same kind of relationship.

The same person pegged my W. as an "injustice collector", putting each and every transgression into a jar, all the while never forgiving and never forgetting.

My W. is identical. Anger all the time. She and my D17 were involved in fist fights. The behavior tore the family apart, all the while W. blaming D.s behavior on a "bad marriage". It got so bad, my D is now at a special intervention school in Utah, and still seems to blame my W for everything.

With all due respect to Sara, we tried Retrouville 2 years ago. BOTH of you have to be WILLING to hear what they say. It sounds like your W. is much like mine. She'll NEVER be able to hear you. Retrouville is like DB in a way. Love is a choice, not an emotion..... My W. sat there for 2 days, arms folded with a puss on like she had been sucking lemons, while I poured my heart out in the letters that they make you write. If she's willing, that's fine. If not, be prepared for 2 days of agony.

I understand your frustration because I bent and twisted gave and gave, and nothing has or probably will change. I used to never stay home or pick my kids up when they were sick, thinking W's job was easier for her to leave. OK, bad move. After we tried marriage counseling, I stayed home every time one of our kids was sick. Not once or twice...every time. I told her I had a lot to make up for. No effect. That was as a big deal for her, and her response was "You do that for them...not for me" OK. I get it, it didn't get to the emotional needs thing, but Acts of Service......all that. My W. has NEVER said she was wrong or accepted blame for anything in 21 years. Each and every time, I gave in and said "I'm sorry", even if it had nothing to do with my behavior. After a while, if someone doesn't extend a hand out to you, like our Ws., and make themselves vulnerable, you will eventually harden yourself. That causes a lot of resentment and frustration over the years. Sara is also right. It's a Mars-Venus thing. Women can hold on like most guys cannot. I've moved on 5 minutes after it's over.

Here's a case in point: for years, she agreed to cook, and I cleaned the dishes. When her super angry period kicked in, she stated that she did all the meal planning, and it was a huge burden. I asked what I could do to help. She got angry because I asked instead of just doing it. OK. Got it. She came home the next night, and I had prepared dinner. It was on the table as she arrived home. Her comment: "I hope that you used the chicken that was in the refrigerator, and did not spend good money on more food". She could always decide when it was time to order out. No problem, which cares? One Friday, I asked the kids what they wanted for dinner. D17 said "Chinese". OK. Ordered Chinese. W's response: "So, you're going to let D17 call all the shots?" (What???? I just asked if the kids wanted take out, like we usually did on Friday. The following Friday, W. asked what everyone wanted. D17 replied pizza. W picks up the phone and orders pizza. You can never win.

So. the answer. You are not alone. many of my friends and some of the folks on this board have said my w. is sick. She may be.

When we were separated for about a month, she called me one Saturday AM from S9's hockey rink, about 15 minutes from home to ask me where his jersey was. I had taken him to practice the previous Wednesday. I told her it was in the basement at home. "Click". Hung up. It was my fault that she did not check the bag. Had I hung up...we'll you know the rest of the story.

Sound familiar?

[mkultra]

Also, Light Your Fire has been helpful for me. I am a lot like your wife and I focus on the more emotional part of the argument so I may have not always been as rational and correct as you. If I ever conceded or apoligized it was based on emotions rather than who was right or wrong. I would rarely admit I was actualluy wrong even if I knew it later. To me it was more about thinking , "Does he even listen to my point of view?" The Light Your Fire CDs showed me that we argue in different language patterns. I am sorry for your frustration. She probably does know she is wrong at times and that you are right but do not expect her to concede that point. You know what they say, Do you want to be right or do you want to be happy?

[FLTC]

It's funny that you should mention this. My W. once say Dr. Phil say Do you want to be right or do you want to be happy? and she responded...I kid you not......."I can't tell the difference"
_________________________

[Dom R]

She probably does know she is wrong at times and that you are right but do not expect her to concede that point. You know what they say, Do you want to be right or do you want to be happy?

if it was just that she didnt want to say the words, "i am wrong", i could live with that more easily.
The problem i have to try to deal with, is that even if she is wrong on a decision to do something... and I show clear indication that what she is doing/wants to do is wrong... she often chooses to just keep right on doing whatever it is, rather than acknowlege by changing her actions, that her choice was wrong.

This is harmful, to me, to our children, and sometimes even to her.

How can I cope with this???

[SallyM]

do you make it easy for her to back down from a wrong decision? some people stick to them because of pride, but also because they feel like the other person is sitting in judgement.

not saying you are doing this at all, just a thought.

[still trying]

Have you ever tried completely agreeing with her? I've read this in several places, that with a sitch like this if you tend to always completely agree with her she'll actually start to defend you. Something like:

Her: You always have to be in control of everything.
You: You're right, I've acted like a complete jerk.
Her: That's right, you never listen to my opinion and you always have to have it your way.
You: I know, you are so right there, I have never listened to your opinion.
Her: Well, sometimes you do. I mean most of the time you don't but there are times when I do feel like you listen.

Not that it's that easy, but Homer talks about it as mental jujitsu. Rather than pushing them back you allow their momentum to make them fall forward and suddenly they start defending you. I don't know that it always works, but if what you're doing isn't working it's worth a try.