I think that is something of a Four thing... also, to the extent that a Four is an NF or NT (intuitive-- in the Myers-Briggs scheme), the realm of S (sensate) is something appealing and mysterious.
This is really interesting to me. For the intuitive, sensate things tend to be magical and mysterious-- keeping the house really clean effortlessly, gardening, keeping clothes neat, ironed, with buttons on them. For the sensate, the realm of the intuitive is magical and mysterious-- being able to write a poem out of nothing, seeing and feeling the tension in a situation, deep empathy for someone.
Jung said that in the second half of life, you should try to develop the other side of yourself. Therefore, for you, venturing into the sensate realm would be good-- massage (learning massage, that is), yoga, dance, gardening, some kind of sport-- things that focus on the body. Learning massage is a great combo of sensate and intuitive because you really use your intuition to guide your hands. Just some thoughts.
Wanting to be transcend the physical and be valued for your inner self... but where does your inner self end and your body begin? Can you identify that? Your body and mind are pretty much one and inseparable. I think you'd love Mark Epstein's book, "Open to Desire"- http://www.amazon.com/Open-Desire-Truth-...92737165&sr=8-4
Devaluing the physical is going to get you into trouble (makes you sound like a Catholic more than a Jew! Have you read "Kosher Sex"?)
Jumping in here because this is interesting to me as a fellow type 4....
NJ said: Inwardly I am rebellious of the conformity to look attractive, although I do go along with the program, to a degree.
I think I am like this too, if I understand what you're saying. It's just another example of the many ways in which I seem to hold opposing views of things at the same time, and it makes no sense to me. I want to look/be attractive, but at the same time I find "beauty" routines to be bothersome and I tend to resist them. Too much time spent on it and it does seem shallow to me. No time spent at all and I start feeling unattractive.
Lil, what you wrote definitely applies to me too. Keeping the house clean effortlessly is indeed magical and mysterious! Most of the sensate activities you mentioned are things that I have thought I would like to do or would like to be able to do, but if I try them I don't stick with them because they're so much work and don't come naturally. I guess this means I need to try again!
Mrs c, thanks for mentioning the opposing views... I was thinking about this this afternoon while I was running around: RJ, you seem to be in a sort of "swirling eddy"--- on the one hand, you want your H to be turned on to you sexually/physically and act on those feelings, but OTOH you've labeled too much physicality as superficial and shallow.
I wonder also if the fact that your H connected physically with someone else has led you to label physical connection as superficial in order to keep at bay the thought that he had a deeper connection with this woman than he wants to have with you.
I don't mean to beat up on you... but this is so interesting to me (and to our sister four, mrs c). Your recent statements about shallowness and superficiality are something I don't recall hearing from you before.
It means he can grind down with his pelvis in a circular motion on top of my clitoris at the same time as he thrusts/f*cks forward with his lower muscles. Think about how Elvis danced and imagine if he could do both of his classic moves at the same time while having sex.
The first guy who ever made me come could do this too. In fact the first O I ever had was with the guy who could do this.
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
I wonder also if the fact that your H connected physically with someone else has led you to label physical connection as superficial in order to keep at bay the thought that he had a deeper connection with this woman than he wants to have with you.
Lil, You are forgetting that for a decade of my married life I basically had no sex drive and we lived in a sex starved marriage ( as defined by sex less than 10 times per year). Clearly I wasn't a physical person. It is really a miracle that I became sexual again, and right now, this is the most sex I have ever had in my whole life.
I've grown to believe that Type 4s dysfunction sexually in similar fashion. Except for the fact that he is male and a PAL, my 2bx reminds me most of RJ and MrsCac in the area of his LD. He frequently expressed the kind of disdain for the physical that RJ is expressing and also the kind of sensory "over"-sensitivity that MrsCAC expressed in the post where she said something about how she couldn't get turned on because CAC's hair was wet and that made him smell like a wet dog or something like that. I remember when I read that post I thought that CAC was way less of a wimp than me because when my 2bx said stuff like that I would just cry.
Understand, I am not totally dissing 4s here because the thing that is great about a 4 sexually is that a high sexually functioning 4 can make you feel like you are a beautiful work of art or a wonderfully functioning musical instrument etc. However, this might play out a little differently if the 4 is the female vs. the male. As a female who is attracted to male 4s, I have to be careful to keep myself in the role of muse or instrument/clay lump or intelligent well-meaning critic rather than the role of manager/patroness because I absolutely can not deal with that whiny*ss "I told you never to buy that brand of jelly beans for my dressing room." sh*t.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
I guess I want to transcend the physicality in a way, and value ( and be valued for) some inner, deeper quality
By eliminating the physicality from life, LD women actually STIFLE their inner qualities. What men REALLY want from a women is HER ability to be sexually confident. This means that she can actually bring her emotions, her confidence, her strength, her inner qualities into ALL aspects of her relationship with her man. What I find with LD women is that they have extremely LIMITED ability to relate with their men, they have extremely LIMITED ability to bring forth thier INNER qualities.
Try to think of how you could bring out all your inner qualities and get your man to appreciate them, BUT DO SO USING ONLY YOUR BODY. By avoiding the physical, you are essentially getting the OPPOSITE of what you want in a relationship.
You have to remember, being physical, being sexual, is fully integrated into every aspcet of a mans life and personality. By trying to avoid physicality, you are shutting him OUT, not inviting him into your deepest core.
Everything that women want in their lives is achieved by being sexually confident, not from being LD.
It was really helpful for me to have that HD rush of chemicals a few years ago. Besides seeing what I have been missing out on, I gained empathy for sexual people. I now know what that neediness is all about and never want to experience it again. I don't want to experience sexual anorexia again either. I just want to keep a healthy sex life going.
When I told cac about the issue with wet hair, it was not said with malice or with a nasty tone like your ex often spoke to you. I had a history of not being honest with cac because I didn't want to hurt his feelings because I felt responsible for his feelings. But not being open and honest with him contributed to our SL problems. My discussion with him about my sensitivies, including the wet hair, was part of my effort to better communicate my needs and issues with him so that he would know what they are and could try to meet them.
I asked him if he would dry his hair after taking a shower because I didn't like the smell of wet hair, because it reminded me of wet wool. I said that I didn't like the smell of ANY wet hair, S4's included.
When we discussed this issue he responded in a loving tone that he had no problem meeting my request. I'm sure that if I had been mean about it, as it sounds like your ex often was, cac could have been offended.
