muddled and angry: Puddle's third thread

[S.T. _I Made It!]

Don't EVER decide to be okay with the women there. If he needs to go, then let him do what he thinks he needs to do. It is not your job to control his life, that's his job. And because you are two separate people, you will NEVER agree to everything.

Now on the Homer thing, I've never read it, but if your REALLY thinking about saying, your right this won't work, lets talk to a tax person..etc. you better be sure that if he decides...yes, finally she sees it my way and lets get a D... is okay for you. Because you can't change your mind. well, you can if you really want to, but we already know that your H thinks your unable to make decisions, and that would be a BIG change in decision making. So be absolutely sure.

I remember telling my H the night we talked... well, I did most of the talking, he couldn't hardly look at me... and I told him if this is what you really want, then we have to go to a C. I never said that I agreed with him, but I accepted his wants.

on your new "phase". yes, I think it's just part of the process we go thru. Everything you've gone thru is just a reminder of my own sitch last year. I even started writing out a list of everything I wanted in a man, whether it be someone new or whatever. I almost got kinda excited having the faith that God was going to provide for me a wonderful man in the future.

I know that right now your H is totally not the man he could be. Now if he doesn't ever figure that out or just continues to make his life miserable, then there is nothing you can do, and I don't expect you to wait for him forever.

well, I will let you go

[Puddle]

Hey ST,

I KNEW you'd have something to say about the women coming over! : )

I don't think I can do it, but I really am curious to hear what folks who've read Homer would think he would say. It's weird: he's got totally give up, agree with everything (including D), but on the other hand date other people and get an aggressive attorney. He's such a lousy writer that sometimes it's hard to even parse what he's actually saying, but it's plenty interesting.

And, yes, Heim, I know the thing about the kids and H having other women over is huge, of course.

ST, I think it doesn't matter whether I say, "Honey, you're right, let's talk to the tax guy" or not. This is the path H is on, I'm not going to stop him, so I feel like I may as well make things smoother. I'm not going to fight him on that stuff. What could the negative result of that be? A faster divorce? We're going there anyway. But really, what negatives do you all see?

About decision-making, the D isn't my choice; I can only choose to fight or not, and fighting isn't helping H want to come back. So I can't choose *not* to get a D, I can only choose how to act on the way. Does that make sense? I don't see it as anything to change my mind about later. Do you see it differently?

Of course along with that, I continue to be cheerful and kind and GAL.

Today my oldest wanted to play a computer game. H wasn't home and I was on my computer, so I tried to set it up on H's. He's changed the password. Child called him and asked for the new password; H came over and typed it in. Later, as I was helping child because the game kept shutting down, I saw that H is looking online for apartments and has a document on his desktop called "woman's name IM." I thought, sigh. Oh well. But it didn't throw me for a loop too much, I felt only vaguely sad, and wasn't tempted to snoop. This is where we are. "Things are what they are," as H is so fond of saying.

Take care, everyone.

[Heimlich]

OK, the Saints finally won a friggin' game and I'm into a bottle of Jack. Woohoo. So take this for what it's worth.

Your H seems to be looking to you for absolution for his decision to dissolve the M. You are under no obligation to give that to him. This is HIS decision. Homer is the most god aweful piece of [censored] writing I've read in a while. That said, a lot of it makes sense. Let go. Stop arguing. Drop the rope. Let him go.

ST, I think it doesn't matter whether I say, "Honey, you're right, let's talk to the tax guy" or not. This is the path H is on, I'm not going to stop him, so I feel like I may as well make things smoother. I'm not going to fight him on that stuff. What could the negative result of that be? A faster divorce? We're going there anyway. But really, what negatives do you all see?

The only negative I see is you giving over yourself of saying, "yes, this is what I really want." You don't. You can skate that by saying, 'this won't work. I don't want the M we had/have." It seems like you being true to yourself means not saying the words "I want this to be over". If that's the case, hey, don't. Beyond that, fightin isn't going to help. Standing in front of the D is going to make him want to fight, just go along with it. As you say, you're going in that direction anyway.

Be happy. There's a lot in your life to be grateful for. I do this mentally a couple of days a week, but list what you're grateful for daily or two/three times a week. You've got a lot going for you Puddle.

Hang in there, Puddle. Like all of us here, we're all screwy on one level or another or we wouldn't be here. Yet, by being here, we are serious about wanting to move from screwy in our relationship with our spouses to being great spouses. Hang in there. Be the best you you can be. The rest will fall into place.

BD

[Puddle]

Hey Heim!

OK, the Saints finally won a friggin' game and I'm into a bottle of Jack. Woohoo. So take this for what it's worth.

Hello to the addled you, and congrats to your Saints!

Your H seems to be looking to you for absolution for his decision to dissolve the M.

When we were "discussing" all this recently, I felt like saying to him, "Good lord, man, just do what you're going to do. Why do you need me to say it's okay? Have some backbone!" How'd that be for arguing *and* closing the door?

Homer is the most god aweful piece of [censored] writing I've read in a while.

You're not kidding. That man needs a good editor worse than I've seen in ages.

That said, a lot of it makes sense. Let go. Stop arguing. Drop the rope. Let him go.

Amen. Now I'm just fighting bringing it up so I can say, "You know, you're right...."

The only negative I see is you giving over yourself of saying, "yes, this is what I really want." You don't. You can skate that by saying, 'this won't work. I don't want the M we had/have." It seems like you being true to yourself means not saying the words "I want this to be over".

I don't even really care about this anymore. What does it matter what I want, what I'd prefer? Feelings change, but it wouldn't change a thing for me to say, "You know, H, you're right. I'll be muuuuuch happier, too." I know how I feel, but it's all good.

You know, Homer and his harping on how people act like their feelings are this higher reality that they have no control over is very much like the rockin short-term therapy I did. It's all about seeing your feelings and saying, okay, I feel that, but I can change what I think, and that'll change the feelings. Voila.

Be happy. There's a lot in your life to be grateful for. I do this mentally a couple of days a week, but list what you're grateful for daily or two/three times a week. You've got a lot going for you Puddle.

You're right, I am fortunate in every way. I have so very much to be grateful for and so little to complain about, and I'm working on that last part. Why should the negative get more air play than the positive? I'm counting my blessings every day.

Yet, by being here, we are serious about wanting to move from screwy in our relationship with our spouses to being great spouses.

And plain old great people. You, too, Heim.

Take care all.

[SunnySeason]

Morning Puddle,

Your H seems to be looking to you for absolution for his decision to dissolve the M.


When we were "discussing" all this recently, I felt like saying to him, "Good lord, man, just do what you're going to do. Why do you need me to say it's okay? Have some backbone!" How'd that be for arguing *and* closing the door?

I know this prolly wasn't intended to get a laugh, somehow it seems funny to me today, how at the beginning we almost pass out from fear thinking about them issuing a death blow/negative evaluation to us or the R. Now, we can hardly wait to say, "You know, you're right."

You are one quick study Puddle!

You know, Homer and his harping on how people act like their feelings are this higher reality that they have no control over is very much like the rockin short-term therapy I did. It's all about seeing your feelings and saying, okay, I feel that, but I can change what I think, and that'll change the feelings. Voila

.

That sums it up so well. I'm going to take that thought & put it into practice today. How short term was the Rockin therapy that you attended?
Was it like a solution based therapy, or something with a different twist? Sounds interesting.

Make it a good day,

Sunny

[Puddle]

Hey sunny!

I know this prolly wasn't intended to get a laugh, somehow it seems funny to me today, how at the beginning we almost pass out from fear thinking about them issuing a death blow/negative evaluation to us or the R. Now, we can hardly wait to say, "You know, you're right."

It is kinda funny. I think we've all come a long way in that sense. I feel like I was going along in my M, thinking things were basically solid, then wham! WTF? But once I got my head around the fact that I'm not going to curl up and die because H doesn't want to be with me and realized I get to choose my own life, my own happiness, it was really quite freeing. And yes, now I just want to call him and say, "Hey, H, I've been thinking..."

But I won't. Patience patience patience. It'll come up on its own, he'll hear it or he won't, and it's going to be okay.

You are one quick study Puddle!

I appreciate the fact that H has given me the time to get my head around this before moving out, and I'm with Homer: I'm not in love with pain. I don't want to be in limbo for months and months or even years. The M may be over or not, the R may be over or not, but either way, no sitting on my laurels. It helps, also, that I don't like H very much right now. Not needing is easy when you don't even want.

Now if he changed his mind, I'd really have a dilemma!

How short term was the Rockin therapy that you attended? Was it like a solution based therapy, or something with a different twist?

It was Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT), which, I don't believe is officially "solution-based." There's tons about it online, and I think the average stint is something like 10--12 weeks, though I think I went for about 6 months before I felt like I was done. It really put me in good stead to deal with this sitch, I believe.

Take care, sunny. I hope you do make your day great, despite H and the hole he's dug.

Hope everyone's doing well. Take care.

[Puddle]

Okay, tonight H and I are going to sit down to talk about all the money stuff---not how to divide stuff or anything, but how much money it takes to run the household, what he'll need to buy when he moves out, etc.

I'm feeling weirdly calm (though of course my heart starts racing as I write that...uh oh). I'm ready to talk turkey, be calm, and agree with everything.

We'll also talk about telling the kids. In an email yesterday he said he's okay telling them he's decided to leave (taking the "blame") and I told him that while it was his decision initially, I'm in total agreement with him now, so we can tell the kids "We've decided we'll be happier living in two places" or "We've decided to live in two places" or whatever.

Note: We are not telling the kids anything today. Probably in the next week or two, though, so any advice would be welcome (especially since H wants to put a positive spin on it---my words, not his).

I'd love to hear any words of wisdom about this kind of talk. I kinda feel like I'm ready for it, but this will be a bit new.

I've always been pretty immature when it comes to getting what I want. I've gotten kind of panicky if I don't like the options. I think I've overcome that this year, but this will be a huge test for me.

I don't think there's any way we can afford to remodel this house (essentially doubling our mortgage) and run a separate household for H. We'll have to sit down with the professionals and crunch some numbers there, so I'll wait and see. But the last couple of days, instead of thinking, "Oh, man, I'm never going to get this place remodeled," I've been thinking, "You know, if we sell the house, I'll walk away with $xxxx, and maybe I can buy a duplex or something..."

I've also been brainstorming ways I can make money. I work on a freelance basis, and I don't earn a lot. I think I may have to change the kind of writing I do, but if I did, I think I could earn enough to support me and the kids. That would make me feel good. Being dependent on a bread-winning partner is one thing; being dependent on your former partner entirely another.

Anyway, thoughts? advice?

Thanks, everyone. Take care.

[Nomopo]

Hi P!

Think I may have said all this before, but better safe than sorry. Don't tell the kids until a few days before implementing H's leaving. I think it is best for the kids to present this as a joint decision so they don't blame their dad. Also, I don't know what H means by putting a positive spin on it. In any event, I think it is important to (1) give them an opportunity to express normal emotions such as anger, sadness, fear, etc. (instead of denying or trying to change those emotions with positive spin) and (2) re-assure them that despite those emotions that they and you and H may be feeling, everything will be alright. Did you get my journal entry on telling the kids? You can glean the points for the talk from that. We got that advice from a very good child psychologist. Also check out that sandcastles website.

Good luck, and hugs,
Nomo

[Puddle]

Thanks, Nomo!

Yeah, over the weekend H and I talked about the "typical" talking points re the kids: you're not to blame, you couldn't have done anything to change this, we both love you and will always take care of you, mama/papa love is different from parent/child love---the latter doesn't change, etc etc.

The weird thing is, H seems to want to present this really positively---hey, we've decided to have TWO houses! And the talking points don't follow. He didn't have anything to say to me pointing this out, other than the fact that he's worried that I'm going to telegraph to them that I'm unhappy about it.

He continues to maintain that professionals don't know anything about us, how we've raised the kids, etc---part of his "we're totally unique" mindset, so it's hard. He did get a kid counselor rec from his IC, though, so maybe we can talk to that person before telling the kids.

He also doesn't want to do a big sit-down with the kids, but rather tell them as we're all hanging out, as usual.

I'm not totally clear on how he envisions this, but I don't think he is, either.

Maybe tonight we can just agree to make an appointment with this person and hash it out with them. I only wanted to make it clear to him that I'm okay with all of this. Not sure if he heard it or believes me.

Thanks for writing, Nomo! Take care.

[Heimlich]

This isn't a casual conversation and it isn't a happy one, regardless of the spin your H wants to put on it. Your kids aren't goign to be happy. Accept that now. If your H thinks otherwise, he's an idiot. Sorry.

Treat the situation with the seriousness it deserves. Don't be hanging out, playing games or something and just blurt out, hey, mama and daddy don't love each other, I'm leaving yeah. Smiles all around.

Turn off the TV and radio and talk to them. I remember reading Nomo's post. It's good (and I think you've seen it before if I recall correctly).

Nomo is right though. Noble of your H to fall on the sword, but it doesn't do your kids any good to know that it's daddy's decision. They'll be angry enough at him because he will be leaving the house. Something is liable to manifest there, he should expect something. They are kids. You are adults. Tell them what they NEED to hear: we love you, we'll always love you, this isn't your fault. This isn't the time for your H to sooth his own feelings.

BD