If you try to talk to someone not interested in talking, just move on. And, oh yeah, smile! Early and often.
Nomo
You would be shocked how the smiling thing breaks the ice. Like you have no cares in the world. Oh and buying the gal a drink doesn't hurt once you got her chatting.
Me: 30 EX-H: 37 DD: 5 Separated 6/07. MC for months, EX-H quit MC. Divorce Final 8/14/08. Trying to move on with new life.
Keep giving CVA and I those tips, Waw, just in case we need them in the future.
Mini-journal about the day's doings: Met with principal about oldest D having problem in her class and not enjoying school as much as she has in the past (there is a boy that she does not like and who is not fond of her in her class, one of those disruptive kids). At any rate, while we explained that the separation is affecting her, neither of us believe that's the main reason for Lauren's school issues. Anyway, good conversation. I had also instigated this meeting by pointing out to W that she didn't seem to be enjoying school as much. A 180 for me.
On the way back from the meeting, left W a VM about scheduling a wart apt for Lauren for tomorrow. Said "I'm sorry to nag, but need to set that up." Sent me an email, said not a problem had forgotten and gave me numbers for the doc so I would have it. Went ahead and scheduled the apt for her for tomorrow. W appreciative. One of her major complaints was that she always had to do the scheduling for this type of stuff. Small, but a 180 for me.
She called me to remind me of the meeting this a.m. (I actually got there before her). Jokingly said, "What meeting?" Met with a stunned silence. Just kidding, almost there. Bye. She arrives and semi-apologizes for calling. Said no problem, but I don't need a minder any longer, just a partner.
Met at noon to buy bday presents for Casey at Toysrus. Joked around a bit. Made her laugh a few times. Figured out a split so I can go to a Halloween party on the weekend I have the girls. Touched her arm/side too much (have to stop doing that; it's like a damn reflex. I literally have to consciously tell myself not to. If I'm just looking at something while we're chatting, it's like muscle memory takes over).
Checked out. She said go put the stuff in the van. "I don't have a key to your van." Kind of got an "oh" look.
Talked for a minute or two at the van. Can't remember exactly what I said, but it was not DB kosher, but nothing major. Said bye, gave each other a hug and left
BD
My latest
Me: 36 W: 35 2 D: 9 and 5 T: 16 years M: 12 10/4/06: Bomb 10/5/06: Ended A 4/22/07: ILYBNILWY
Friday. Accompanied Casey on a field trip, needed a blanket for picnic lunch. Called W, asked if I could use one of the kids keys to get the blanket we usually used. She said fine. She called back a few minutes later and, after me asking if she would rather I just not go over, she said no, it's a space issue and I felt violated. I kind of snapped a bit, Yeah, let's compare violations. You lied to me for 3 months, you shared my intimate thoughts with your mother by forwarding my emails to you to her, and you tell me we're ok while telling everyone else your unhappy. I know all about feeling violated. Do you have any empathy at all? Little more, that was it.
She sends an email a few minutes later, "waht you did to me last October was the greatest violation." Refering to me losing my mind and attacking her on the night she told me of the A. I responded later that, "I don't want to get into a pissing match of who hurt who worse. That's an action I will regret to the day that I die and I would never act like that toward you again. Any R would be based on love and respect, not guilt or the past."
No direct response, but she sent an email asking if I had a good time on the field trip.
When she dropped the girls off, I asked her about it outside. "Do you still think about that all of the time." She says she just wishes I had hit her. I said something to the effect of I wish I hadn't done anything, but to put things in context of what she was telling me that night. 16 years (at the time) of doing nothing but showing love for you is outweighed by me losing my mind once for 2 or 3 minutes? Said she didn't want to talk about this, said fine, have a good night.
She came over yesterday and brought a cake and balloons to wish Casey happy bday. We sat around and chitchatted for 30/40 minutes. Made the mistake of following up on the conversation again. [partly, i'm not sure if this is a mistake. She doesn't talk to me. She's convinced she nows how I'm going to act whenever she says something. She keeps saying "I can't talk to you." It's like a defense mechanism. I've thought for the last few months that if we could just start talking, there would at least be the possibility of something between us. Like if I could burst that blister, that might get her going.]
Anyway, started off asking her a few things regarding the bday party today (which was my intention). Then asked her if that night prevents her from wanting anything with me (or something like that). Said she was scared and saw a side of me that she didn't like. Apologized again, said that's a side of me that I don't like and never want to see again. Said I never gave you anything but love other than those few minutes, she agreed and then said something about "I don't want to talk about this." I said, "you never want to talk, you tell everyone else and not me and have for years." or something like that and slammed the door going back inside. Haven't done anything like that in months.
Whated a minute or two, then grabbed some trash to walk down to cool off. She was still in the parking lot and drove over. Asked me if I felt better for the childish display. Said, "No, actually feel worse." We talked for about 10 minutes. Said a lot of what I've said here, She said our problems are more than one thing. Said I know, I'm not 100% sure we could be a couple again, but I think you're worth making the effort. That we were in love for a long time without doing anything to keep that alive and that a R takes effort and that I never let you all the way in because I was scared and that I didn't know how to aske for what I needed and I don't think you did either. That when we tried last year, I didn't have any tools. I do now. Said I don't know if I could trust you again, I still think you're seeing OM. I found the pills (her reply to that, they were from last summer, a sample, and I never finished taking them. hmmmmmm, and you didn't throw them away why?) and that she's not seeing him. Regardless, not for the kids, but because of how I feel about you. Don't need you. Want you in my life. I miss not being able to just talk and that I miss the emotional intimacy that we used to share, more than the sex. Mentioned Retro in the context of many of our problems are communication problems.
She said at one point "I don't love you." Said, I know. I love you but I'm not sure we could make a good couple again. Think it's worth seeing if we could, but not sure myself.
She's seen me be more calm and thoughtful and taking charge of things. she keeps out of reflex trying to defend what she's saying when she gives me advice on what to do with the kids. While I don't always agree with her, most of the times I say something to the effect of "that's a good idea" or "I had thought of something similar, good to hear a second same opinion." She did that yesterday and I just asked her flat out you don't have to defend yourself, I like to hear your opinions (she's thought that I didn't value her opinions over the years, not true, but . . .) Have I said anything to give you the impression I wasn't listening or didn't want to hear what you say? She said, "No, but you used to be like that." Just said, "see me for who I am today." She's been more pleasant toward me. Heck, even the girls have noticed me being calmer. When I do raise my voice to them, they know for sure they're walking on thin ice.
Sent her a text. "I'm sorry. I want to show you who i am but i keep showing you the dumbass you left. hope i didn't ruin your afternoon."
Called her later for the girls to wish her goodnight. After they were done, told her something that Lauren had said about her and got a belly laugh.
I know DBing and everything else says to give her space, and I want space between us as well. A huge part of me still says that if she doesn't talk to me and get some of her anger at me out, she'll keep internalizing it. Regardless, she has the girls this week. I plan on doing a fair bit of reading and thinking about this this week. Lean toward keeping to attempting to stop talking, but, with my W and how she internalizes her feelings, I'm not 100% sure that's the total way to go. Or maybe I'll connvert like Nugget and all of this stuff with just gel for me.
This effing sucks. Funny thing is that in all of this I'm continuing to do my own thing on the assumption that she's not going to be in my life. Lord knows it doesn't sound like that, but I truly feel that I'll be fine without her -- it's just a VERY strong preferance that she return to my life as my W, with all of the good things H and W should be and share.
BD
My latest
Me: 36 W: 35 2 D: 9 and 5 T: 16 years M: 12 10/4/06: Bomb 10/5/06: Ended A 4/22/07: ILYBNILWY
I'm very proud of you in the fact that you can honestly post what transpires in your commmunication with W. However, that being said, I want you to read through your post again and dissect it, bro. I'm not going to give you any 2x4s, because I honestly don't think it's going to do you any good. You haven't responded to them from the many supportive DBers who have been here for you in the recent past. Please take this to heart -- I just don't have the energy to post to you what you've been told many times over and should really know by now. Put yourself in W's shoes when you re-read your post. That might help...
A few slips here and there but, I think overall the days worth of conversation between the two of you was beneficial. There is a better understanding now of how each of you feel. And you are right. She needs to vent her feelings. She needs to express the anger she has inside for your actions. That is part of her healing process.
I am glad you are handling her comments about how you should (in her opinion) interact with the girls in a more positive manner.
Seems as if things ARE starting to gel for you.
“Do you want to be RIGHT or want to be LOVED” “You have to have a life to share a life with someone” “When you stop resisting, you start learning”
A few slips here and there but, I think overall the days worth of conversation between the two of you was beneficial. There is a better understanding now of how each of you feel. And you are right. She needs to vent her feelings. She needs to express the anger she has inside for your actions. That is part of her healing process.
I'm ditto with GD on re-reading what you posted Heim, & the other thoughts on where a continuation of "more of the same" is going to take you.
Yeah, we were. But, what good is it going to do to beat him up about it? We have all smacked him with a 2X4 over the same things over and over again. So, I am trying a new approach. Remember, if something is not working, try something different. We have all beat him time and time again and that does not seem to be working.
But, honestly he has came a long way. We all have. He is not snooping as much. He is not letting OM issues affect him as much. He is not allowing wife's words to get under his skin as much. He has some rough edges to fine tune, but don't we all. He is making progress and that is what is important. Baby steps.
“Do you want to be RIGHT or want to be LOVED” “You have to have a life to share a life with someone” “When you stop resisting, you start learning”
Have a Saints game to prep for (i.e., need to settle the nerves with a whiskey), but a few quick thoughts. Yeah, I'm generally pretty honest. And, seriously, the more I think of this, the more I think that getting my W to talk is key. Unlike most of you, I never heard squat from her about her real feelings other than a few counceling sessions. She's got this block that "I can't talk to him". Not sure how to break it down. For the most part, DB is the right way to go for me. 100%? I'm not so sure. And, yeah, I realize how arrogant that sounds. Again, need to do some thinking about this. Also just realized that she expressed herself to me twice on Friday -- once with the initial email and then asking me if I had a good time at the field trip. For the past 6 months, she's been like a black hole. That's new behavior from her. She also saw me and drove toward me on Saturday. Otherwise, most of the conversation that day wouldn't have even happened. She could have just as easily pulled out and left.
Today went really well. W called a little frazzled about getting the cake. Told her that I thought I would get it anyway and not to worry about it (she was getting balloons and other stuffus). Got a sincere thank you.
Had a good time at the party -- Bowl America. 16 or so kids rushing up and down throwing both pink and orange bowling balls down 5 lanes. Fun, a bit exhausting though. We managed the party together, with each of us checking with the other to make sure everythign was covered.
Had planned on driving to the house so that Casey could open our presents (we decided to buy joint presents for her this year). While we were in the parking lot, she invited me to stay for dinner.
Tore through the presents like a buzzsaw. I got a makeover with the Hannah Montana makeup kit -- looked like a VERY ugly drag queen for a while. Had dinner. Girls went outside. W said something like, "We're alone. We've had a good day Please don't bring up anything about us." Said I had no intention of doing so and thanked her for inviting me for dinner, that it was nice of her especially after our conversations the last two days.
Gave the girls hugs out by the car. W patted my arm/shoulder on the way past. Again, not a frequent thing. She's been "no touch" for a while now.
So. Dunno what any of this means.
Don't think she's seeing OM at the moment. Yeah, I know, I may be a fool. Still.
Nugget, Only snooped once in all of this (well, twice if you count thinking about buying email cracking software the night she told me about the A -- just over a year ago at this point).
GD/Sunny, just cut and paste a previous 2X4 for me and drop it in her now and again. I've probably done something dumb even if you're not responding to anything in particular.
Geaux Saints
Last edited by Heimlich; 10/14/0711:26 PM.
My latest
Me: 36 W: 35 2 D: 9 and 5 T: 16 years M: 12 10/4/06: Bomb 10/5/06: Ended A 4/22/07: ILYBNILWY
I don't think anyone is trying to discourage you from getting your wife to talk and open up. Where you downfall or backslides (at least in my opinion) are in some of your responses and approaches to her.
“Do you want to be RIGHT or want to be LOVED” “You have to have a life to share a life with someone” “When you stop resisting, you start learning”
Where you downfall or backslides (at least in my opinion) are in some of your responses and approaches to her.
Let me try to expand on this a little. Consider your post today:
Originally Posted By: Heimlich
Had dinner. Girls went outside. W said something like, "We're alone. We've had a good day Please don't bring up anything about us." Said I had no intention of doing so and thanked her for inviting me for dinner, that it was nice of her especially after our conversations the last two days."
You could have simply smiled and said: "Ok. I understand." I think that would have been so much better. Instead, you had to say "I had no intention of doing so," which is really saying to your W "I've changed. Don't you see that?" MAnd worse, it says "I know you don't see that I have changed or you wouldn't have asked me to be quiet, and now I am going to point it out to you that I have changed and you just don't get it, my dense W. And then I am going to try to be extra pleasant and thank you for inviting me to dinner despite the intense convos we've been having, which I just reminded you of and reinforced in your mind yet again."
I know that's probably overkill BD, but it's like your trying too hard. At least that's the feeling I get. I can feel the tension in your posts. Surely your W does too. Try to relax. You'd like to reconcile with her, but you don't NEED to, so try to relax, back off, give her some space, don't try to craft every single interaction you have with her (every word, every gesture, every intonation, etc.) in order to get her to come back. Just accept that you don't control the outcome, take a deep breath, focus on you and your kids, and wait and see where your W ends up (way?) down the road.
LESS IS MORE right now with your W. Less is more. Ok?
Nomo
M 39 W 39 M'd 10 yrs; T 14 yrs S7 D4 Bomb 5-8-05 W not working on M 1-22-07; EA 2-22 DB 4-10 S 6-11 No more C Link
