New Thread - question for everyone

[25yearsmlc]

Dear WL,

sweetie, take this the right way okay? ummm, 2 months is NOTHING in the life of the MLCer, if that is what your h is. Your real question is whether he is a WAS that doesn't come back and if so, how will you know and when?

That might be your "real" question and we ALL GET it. This sucks. Heck, 2 DAYS OF IT SUCKS so we do understand how you feel. Most or all of us have been where you are. No kids CAN suck b/c you lack the obvious reasons for contact, but honey, it sucks MORE to HAVE the kids and Not have contact. Then you get to see the rejection you feel, amplified a 100 times in the eyes of your children who everyone knows had nothing to do with the M or problems, and yet, they will feel guilt about it. And shame, etc.

So, in a way the not having kids is a blessing IF the h is a WAS, b/c it is easier for you to GAL and start over and in your heart, become a better partner for the next love of your life. I say this regardless of the reasons your h left, because we ALL can do better and most of us, the LBSers, do become better partners. Either for our returned spouses or for the new love we invite into our lives.

I am still so so far from perfect, but I am a better wife than I thought I could be, and my M is better now than it was for the past 5 years. Not as good as it has been at times, but I'm hopeful that we'll get there (26 years in all, and still counting).

I think my h is grateful for me in ways he couldn't have been had he not gone off the deep end and had we not gone on this weird painful journey. If I had not read the DB books, I am CERTAIN I'd be divorced b/c I literally got the paperwork to file and was planning on it. What has changed?

Our history, in brief, was that my H's career became increasingly demanding of his time and energy and where we lived, (he is a physician and the Army put him thru med school so we owed them years of service) and I increasingly resented it. AND in fairness to me, this was a career change for him after we married and had our first child, so it is not what I had expected our M or family life to be like at all. When we dated I specifically loved that he was a hard worker BUT that he was not a workaholic, or so I thought. I was wrong. I resented the time his job took away from family, although not as much the Army part of it much, since it felt like we were part of a good cause and there were benefits too. (BTW, I Joined the Army after it became obvious I would have to change jobs each time we moved, so, wth? If you can't beat 'em, join 'em....???)

My biggest mistake as a wife was twofold: I took on too much as a woman in today's world--with the ridiculous television image of a woman who makes 6 figures i a prestigious career, looks great, loves sex (well, gee come to think of it, SOME of these things were true - so I guess I was always a great catch....) and has great kids she somehow finds enough time for, who also unfailingly supports her h's career, never has family time interrupted or vacations cancelled or cut short due to her job, which she squeezes in somehow, still has a demanding career that somehow never interrupts anything else (like in the old Cosby show where the wife was a law partner at a big firm, and he was an OB...she never missed a kid's function waiting for a jury verdict, and he--the OBSTETRICIAN never got called in the middle of the night, or a family discussion, or while ML, or worked on a holiday, or even seemed that tired....let alone irritable due to sleep deprivation...). By taking on all these conflicting roles, I felt exhausted and resentful and depressed, and often like a failure/underachiever. My health did suffer too, but that's another story.

The 2nd mistake, and my stupidest one--AND one many women make, was how I approached my h's career demands. I took it personally when he had to work long hours or take call on weekends and holidays. SOMETIMES it's true, he could have been much more proactive in scheduling. True.
But I certainly did Not handle things well. I recall being angry at him for those extra calls (either for extra money he ALWAYS thought we needed or to impress a superior, or because he didn't get his act together and the other doctors planned ahead and made sure they were off on the holidays, etc)---I always interpreted it to mean our family didn't matter as much to him--and guess what?

Even if I was accurate in that assessment, (thereby making me "RIGHT") did my whining or resenting EVER help him place more value on us? NO, no no no. Did my resentful attitude cause change in him? NO. But did I change my approach? Nope. And I'm supposed to be a smartie pants educated woman...geez, really brilliant strategies....but I digress....

Instead, Why didn't I make our home a warm welcoming place that he wanted to return to? Partly because I thought he'd take me more for granted and somehow I believed that if I "rewarded" him for working late, he'd continue to do so and treat us worse. You know, maybe if I had realized that it wasn't a likely result, OR that even if that did happen, and somehow he changed nothing, at least It'd have been more pleasant for those of us at home. The important point is, that my negative approach was a failure and yet I continued with it.

When we were first married, and even after the kids were born, those first years, he WANTED to be home and he'd be so happy when he came up the stairs, he'd play and wrestle and cuddle. Sometimes he'd pass out from fatigue, or at the kitchen table, more times than I care to recall. But emotionally, after several years, I had my arms crossed and felt hurt and burdened with all the home/child care and a full time demanding job...but who really misses a bitter wife? I should have been a woman that only a fool would leave.

BUT after leaving the home for 2 years, (yes, I said YEARS--and 3 kids, with only one at home now) with visits about every 5 weeks, he surely learned what single life without repsonsibilities felt like. I guess he didn't love it, at least not after awhile.

He eventually got depressed and though I doubt he got meds or real treatment, I know it was noticed. ANd I read DB and GAL and lost all my anger (I.E., IN FRONT OF HIM) I tried hard to become a woman only a fool would leave. To some extent at least, I succeeded.

Like you, I obsessed about how he could go days or weeks without calling me. But he was in a new field (another medical credential so his flagging self esteem would improve I guess, but who knows, and who cares why anymore?) so he was busy and I bet your h also has things on his mind that do NOT have to do with you. Generally they do not obsess the same way we do, although they think of us more than we can know, because the fact that he doesn't call does not mean he isn't thinking of you or missing you or dealing with guilt, etc.

For me, the anger and sadness became consuming and took too much out of me. I was not able to function well and of course, because I have kids I knew I had to "snap out of it" for them, even if only on the surface. I got help. A lot of help, and not just from here. The insights this terrible blow to my heart actually lead me to, helped me a lot and as a part of couple, I'm stronger, so we are a better couple as a whole as well.

WL, the good news about him dropping contact is that eventually you WILL have some, and then it'll be easier to notice your changes because if you saw each other daily, it just gets harder to notice changes. I have heard of only ONE man leaving his wife and kids and Never contacting them again, and decades have passed. (She remarried a wonderful man, raised her 2 boys and they're all fine and close, btw. It truly is that WAS idiot's loss, but I'm pretty sure his guilt is so high he is terrified of facing them, so he'll never call them, and he'll live out his days with that guilt, and he'll die an earlier death, alone with his shame...)

So that is out of what, 200 couples I've known that have split up? And so many I've "met" on this bb. It is rare for a man to leave and never ever contact you. But I don't know all your history so I'll try to find your thread if I can. Is it under this name/title? What section? Also, how long is the M and how long did you know each other before M, and what is he telling his family/friends, how far away is he, etc?
How close were you at one time, honestly? If you once had a great love, trust that his memory of it will resurface at some point.

If he is having an A, the average one lasts about 6 months and if you divorce because of that A, and IF he marries the OW, those marriages have an 80% divorce rate. I can imagine several reasons for that, but DO NOT tell him any of this. None of the MLCers want to be analyzed by us. They don't want their feelings invalidated w/ "This is a phase you'll grow out of" or "you're wrong to feel this way", etc.

My DB coach said that when I talked to h, when HE called (I didn't initiate contact unless there was a true emergency or school issue with the kids, and really there were very few of those that couldn't wait) to "Lose the parental voice" because it shuts down the MLCers inner voice. Don't say things like "HOw could you do this to me?" or, "Why are you so....?" She said any questions that begin with "WHY" are going to make the MLCer feel defensive. She said to "Lose the anger" in front of him or you'll just validate his reasons for leaving. Really WL, do you see how being needy or hurt makes it harder for him to contact you? He may feel guilty already and in many people (imho, men are worse about this, but that's a sexist generalization--yes it is and I admit it!!) they turn guilt into anger and sometimes their guilt comes out in them attacking the cause of their guilt. That's when you'll get what we call "alien spew" which is when they revise the maritial history (OMG my
h totally revised our Marriage at times, and I'd think he was sniffing glue or something, because it was just crazy and angry and intolerable to hear) and you'll be amazed at how they rationalize/justify their actions. Usually by vilifying YOU.

So if you act sad/needy/angry, you'll be fueling those images. You want to counter his negatives, which is how he justifies this crazy zero contact, with POSITIVES. You'll be happy and upbeat, looking forward to your life's activities with or without him, you'll have a positive twist on things b/c of your wonderfully positive optimistic way of looking at things, you'll be supportive of his life IF he opens up to you about his job, family, anything OTHER THAN R talk, you'll listen like a lover/friend would listen. (We will all know you should get an Academy Award for your acting skills, but he will never get to know that, sorry....just know that WE know...) Remember most of all, you want him to miss YOU. Think of the friends you miss talking to and why. It isn't because they chew you out or make you feel miserable for not calling sooner. Never mention that he hasn't called often. In fact, act as if you didn't notice b/c you've been so busy with YOUR interesting life, meeeting fun people, going to fascinating places and doing exciting things....

IF HE brings up R talk (you MUST NOT be the one to do this) you should gently try to veer off the topic if he's vague. This is so hard to do. You have to listen and let him go on, and be silent when he pauses. IF he's just on a fishing expedition, you'll probably know and you should not reveal too much. That's when you need to veer off. If he is specific about his feelings, don't pin him down to committing, but you can try to get clarification--good luck on that because confusion is huge for him right now, probably. Now this is what MY DB coach said to me, for MY sitch. I don't know all of yours so take what's useful or sounds applicable, but ditch the rest, okay? Also, 3 sessions with a DB coach costs less than 3 sessions with a private therapist, in my area. I did not use insurance b/c it didn't apply unless I said I was psycho, since my insurance sucked. But for me, paying for 3 sessions was financially okayg, and I could afford it AND I saw a private t anyhow. He was good too, and I liked having a man's view, and he was pro-M like the DB people are.

But if I could ONLY do one thing to save the M, I'd get a DB coach for 3 or more sessions (I"ve got to admit, I've had 8 and have at least one more to go), and of course, follow the DB books the best I can.

WL, not all marriages can be saved. Even as a Catholic, I also know that there are marriages that probably should not be saved. I prayed mine wasn't one of them, and perhaps that's true. I say "perhaps" even though we now live together again, and are working hard on the M and I think we are doing well.

But I will never again believe that any couple is "done" with the work part of marriage, or that you'll never have any fears again. We all do, and a bit of that is probably what prevents us from taking things for granted too much, or letting things slide for too long. Many of us have "awakened" now, in ways we would not have before. Many of us were asleep and now, we are living our lives wide awake. That's a good thing, but like others have said, it's a lesson I wish I had been able to learn without so much pain. At least by GAL, even if things do not end up as you now hope they will, you WILL be a happier person and a better person and eventually, if you need to move on, it'll be that much easier. Don't worry that "GAL/detaching" means your chance of reconciling are less. It's just the opposite. Yet it also prepares you much better, for either outcome. Make sense?

Good luck, you are in the right place.
j-

[Cinderellaman]

25yearsmlc..........

AS usual a BRILLIANT post !!!!!!!!!!!!!! (please come post your story on the 'Hope for newbies, restored marriages' thread !

I just have one question, which you may be able to answer since you've had such fantastic coaching from the DB coaches and your T.

Why is this ?...........

Don't worry that "GAL/detaching" means your chance of reconciling are less. It's just the opposite.

is it because our self confidence and positive attitude becomes contagious ? I really hope you can answer ........I have been wondering this for SO LONG !

[w8ing]

Instead, Why didn't I make our home a warm welcoming place that he wanted to return to? Partly because I thought he'd take me more for granted and somehow I believed that if I "rewarded" him for working late, he'd continue to do so and treat us worse. You know, maybe if I had realized that it wasn't a likely result, OR that even if that did happen, and somehow he changed nothing, at least It'd have been more pleasant for those of us at home. The important point is, that my negative approach was a failure and yet I continued with it.

What a smack in the face.....and it doesn't even need to be specific to working late...it could be anything. Because of this statement, I am thinking of the things that I didn't do because it was his job to do. I resented like h*ll that he didn't do it and I wouldn't do it because then he would have me continue to do it. And I did plenty around here, thankyouverymuch....I didn't need to do "his" stuff too.

Why did I approach this is such a negative way? Why did I assume that he was just being lazy, or thoughtless?

Thanks for the wakeup call, 25 years! Powerful post!

w8ing

[missmyfriend]

I agree. Wonderful post.

It reminds me of the marriage encounter weekend my wife and I went to shortly after she dropped the bomb on me. They said most people feel that in a relationship you contribute 50/50 and that is a recipe for failure. If you give 50% expecting the other 50% from your spouse, you could wait indefinitely. The other spouse, feeling the same way may not appreciate what you are doing and do absolutely nothing or maybe 10 - 20% or any other percentage they feel sufficient. It ends up being a situation of complete selfishness. Instead, they say you should give 100% into the marriage and not worry about what the spouse does. The spouse will more than likely start following your example and become less selfish and care about how much they can contribute unselfishly to the marriage.

Isn't that what we try to teach our children? To not worry about what other people do and to do the right thing without expectation?

[25yearsmlc]

Cinderman,


I'm pondering and will respond to your question later this week. Also will try to catch up on your sitch. Any special place I should look?
Oh, the short, oversimplified answer I'd give now, late at night is this.

You asked about the issue/question of

Detaching and why it does Not somehow lessen the chances of reconciling ---(b/c our natural instinct is to pursue that which we feel we are losing...even in the face of overwhelming evidence that pursuing is a BAD idea in the sitch....for example, b/c it AIN'T WORKING)))))

One analogy to one method of 'Detaching' ---may mean you need to shut a door to the hall at night, so the light doesn't keep waking you up and interfering with your sleep. But it doesn't mean you lock the door, or that you wouldn't open it, if the right person knocked on it the right way...OR 2) Swimming to the "island" of freedom and detachment, doesn't mean you can't someday return to the mainland, but it often means that you have to stop looking back at the shore b/c it slows down your swim to the island, may even drown you, and does Nothing to actually get you back to shore...

enough metaphors for now. I'm really tired, but I have not forgotten...

Later buddy,
j-

[Cinderellaman]

Thanks so much !!! Well said !! xxxxx goodnight ! xxx

[Jeanette1120]

What a wonderful post 25ymlc....

It takes me back so many years......longer than the 2 I have been here. I can't help but wonder what mighta/coulda/ happened if I had of heeded some of the wonderful advice I was given in the beginning and learned how to approach this.

Ah well....2 years later and still not completely out of the journey through the unknown. Time and patience are still on my side.

Once again....wonderful!

Jeanette

[brandnewday]

This book really opened up my eyes...

Good Book!!!


Not everyone likes Dr.Laura, but she makes a lot of really great and valid points