Forrest Gump and his box of choclates.

[littlebitlost]

Forrest

If I can be so bold as to remind you of a few things here, and you may already know....just remember.

You are distancing but you have to remember that you need to make changes in yourself. Whether or not they are for her, for any future relationship, for your kids, but mainly for YOU! You need to remember that when you do see her, whether it be at the local mcdonalds or the laneway to be friendly, very friendly, smiling, genuinely concerned for her. Ask how she is doing...even if you REALLY don't care (understandably) Easy things like how is work going and so on. Stay away from what are you doing kind of questions (unless they concern you, like the house) Look good, walk tall. When you drop your kids off, talk about what a great time you had. Things like 'they had a great time doing (insert something here)...you should try it with them)

You may not want to catch her eye now....you dont care but the way you feel today, may not be the way you feel tomorrow, remember that. Dont forget that even when it does not seem to be working it just might be. It took me 4 months to tell my H that I knew I had made a mistake. Seeing all these wonderful things changes and such happening in you maybe what makes her wnat to be a better person (thats what happened with me) and maybe not. If it doesnt, then you have lost nothing and if it does, then you have everything to gain.

I say this from someone who is taking a very slow but determined road. And I truly think it is working.

I wanted to tell you something someone showed me at work (a customer with beer in him)

He put his hand up and like he was saying hi and told me to put my palm against his. I did. He starting slowly pushing. Without even realizing what was happening I resisted and pushed back. He smiled and put his hand down. Then he put his hand out, palm out as inviting me to dance. I put my hand into his and he slowly pulled toward himself and for some reason I didnot resist. He looked at me and said 'see?'

If you put your hand up against someone and push they push back (push you away) If you put your hand out to someone and they put their hand 'into' your hand, you allow yourself to be led because you want to.





Here is what is up with me (since you asked )

Got a new life counsellor today. He called and we talked. He said that I have imporved in leaps and bounds and that I shoudl be very proud of myself. i conquered my greatest fear...that of being alone. From the minute I moved out I was by myself. I worked through being afraid, being lonely, being regretful, learning to cook (aaron always did that ) getting myself and the kids up in the morning.(some will understanmd the alarm clock reference, others won't!!!) i problem soved, I laughed and cried!!! I am very proud of myself as well. I worked through panic attacks by myself and did alot of soul searching.

THEN I went to see my C..... yeah apparently I need alot of help! LOL!
There I talked about the same things. She and I delved into my childhood again and found nothing there that would have caused me to be so fearful...I had a great upbringing. Lots of love, enoght money, food etc.... dont get me wrong, everything I had I worked for (for my dad in a lumber store..so I am familiar with a 2x4!!! LOL again!!)

Aaron and you folks here feel that all the changes I make should be for me! I agree but some people just arent' wired taht way. My C felt it was unrealistic not to acknowledge that the changes for a big part are for my family and that includes aaron. The bettering of myself for me in the process is a bonus. In the end, no matter how I get there or what started my journey I WILL be a better person for it. My life coach said that I am not going to be a better person, I am going to be who I REALLY am...the last 34 years have just been my journey there!!!! My hurting is all apart of my growing.

My C and I talked about what I felt I needed from any future relationship, that I needed to acknowledge this. I told her I needed someone to listen to me when I talk and who will know that I iwll listen when they talk. Someone who will support my emotionally as well as physically (intimacy) and someone who will accept those things from me. someone who will respect my prsonal space and I theirs. someone who cares about me and wants to be cared about by me. Someone who will talk if something is wrong and will listen when I feel there is something wrong and will put in the effort to making things right or better.

My C and I talked about the fact taht the sepe4ration had to happen for the growth we have had to occur but that in seperating mistakes were made. I acknowledge these things.

For those of you who dont know this here comes a big nono.

The second week of July I heard a message. I had never snooped before but I did this nite. I will never forget it. I was lying in bed with tyler and we called her dad to say goodnite. he did not answer. On a whim I entered hiw old bank card pin and it worked. What I heard next made me sick. First there was a saved message from me...I was crying and telling him that he was to have a good weekend and that he knew how nervous I got when he drives on the highway ( I Know I am over that fear now) The next message?:

'hey aaron its me. I cant believe it is only thursday and I miss you already. I love you so much and care about you so much. I had a great time last night and will miss you over the weekend. Have a great time and i'll see you when you get back. Love you'

I almost threw up right then and there. I had been working on myself and never at any time thought that we would not get back together. Then it hit me. I was really losing him and my journey was taking too long.

I told him I heard he was seeing someone and he said where did you hear that. I said throught the grapevine. Well he said there was a girl he was hanging with but that she was just a friend. That was all. I did not believe him. who leaves a msg like that to a friend. She was single and has 2 children. If you have followed my posts you will know this was DANA.

Fast forward...then he takes his vacation..his solo journey for self discovery and takes her. Again, devastated. Hearing about her from my daughter...devastating. Knowing he was over there all the time and did not want to work on us....devastating. So to explain my absolute breakdown in Aug...hearing about her going with. Make sense now. SomethinG I could not post before as I did not want him to know.

At C we talked about this...please note it happened THAT ONCE and not again as the devastation (love that word) was too much and I did not want to know more. I kept throwing it up in the air about telling him what I had done. It might make some of my behaviour more sensical. We went over what could happen on the positive side and what might happen in the negative. I felt like the weight of the world was on my shoulders.

K...So I got to his house and he was stripping the stairs. Hardwood but some genius painted them. He is ambitious. He was surprised to see me but did not seem upset. i asked if I coudl talk to him outside and he looked worried. I had a really rough day. He asked if i was OK and I said I did not know yet. Here is waht I said. I asked him to wait until I was totally done to comment. He said ok and sat down.

I talked to my counsellor today and my life coach and here is what we discussed. I know it does not necessarily jive with all of your philosophies but we are each individuals.

Insert: we have talked about he board before and how we are in control of the advice we take and the advice we dont take and that all the guidelines are good...but have to tailored by each individual to meet needs. we are in agreement about this

back to what I said:
Then I said...I am about to tell you something that I am very ashamed of. Something I did that i should not have done. You may or may not forgive me but I cannot carry the guilt around anymore. It is making me crazy, behave in ways I do not want to behave and form opionions I do not want to have. He softly told me to go ahead. At this point I have to admit my whole body started to shake. I first said I am so sorry for breaking your trust but......insert the call, the breach of trust, what I heard, what I had thought about our seperation, how I felt so sick, how I panicked, and ensuing odd behavior. Isaid again that I was ashamed and sorry and that I had only done it once.

His reponse:

I understand I have been there.....(thank god)
I forgive you..(and he hugged me)
That explains alot of what has been going on.

I told him I wanted to be totally honest and to build some trust and that I could not live with carrying that anymore. He said while we were being honest he was going to tell me something.

One time she touched his chest and said something like she would 'do' someone who looked as good as him...(insertmore tears here)
That there was nothing going on and he had told her from the start that this was not what he was looking for. Things apparently went along smoothly until last week. She gave him an ultimatum....she wanted to move to the next level and date or that they need to stop bein garound him. He said I told her that it was over then. I told you from the beginning this was not what I was looking for. She overstepped the boundaries and broke his trust. he said he would not be hanging wth her anymore and that tyler would not be talking about her D anymore.

I am glad that he told me but I knew even if he was telling the truth that she as a woman would see things differently (DW?!!!) I said that sleeping in a tent with her, though (maybe) innocent on his part is an intimate thing for a woman.

I told him then thank you for telling me that our being honest was a baby step to us being friends and starting over...fresh slate.

I did then take the opportunity to tell him how proud I was of who he was and who he was becoming. He smiled. I said that I would not push for a reconcilliation now, tomorrow or the next week but that eventually he would have to decide if it was somwthing he wanted to work on. I would love for all of my days but the pain was something I would have to get over and if it took getting over him and the marriage and moving on that is what I would do. Being his friend is the ultimate goal for me now and I am OK with that. He smiled

Then he asked if i still wanted to take the kids apple picking Monday and I said yes, I thought that would be great, and fun. He siad he appreciated all my honesty. There I was standing 'naked in the rain' vulnerable. He knew taht too. We hugged again. It felt soooo good.

I said I had to go get the kids from my moms and got in my car. I have to add that through all this there was some laughter and joking in amongst the seriousness. Thats just who I am.

As I was about to pull away he said 'hey er'....'I'm really proud of you too' booooo-ya!!!!

So that was my night. I have no great expectations...I have hopes...they may be crushed they may come to fruition. I am prepared either way. I dont pretend that it wont hurt or I wont be crushed but I am realistic about hte situation.

And that my friends is ...well....the start of closure!!! (and if not closure but the start of something new ...then...

I am soooo sorry Forrst...this is soooo long but...
We picked apples and then our pumpkins (which I have b een invited over to carve with he and the kids) He'll carve, appparently I get to clean and roast the pumpkin seeds....

We went on the hayride and played at the playground as well. It was over 30 degrees here to day so like a june or july day. Beautiful... I got some great pictures for a gift i am doing for aarons birthday in Nov. We even talked ab out playing a round of golf together before the weather gets really crummy.

We got home from that and went to my parents for Thanksgiving dinner (which is always a zoo) My sister her husband and 1 year old...aaron and I tyler, liam and flora, my sister in law, brother and baby in belly (so she takes up the room of 2) her parents and my mothere and father....their b est friend out doctor and her two teenage kids....Ahhhhhh it was just like every other holiday....a full house of laughter and food and friends and it was 'normal'.

Noone asked how aaron and I were.....they were forwarned that we are working on being friends and it was comfortable. The kids started to get grumpy and so we used them as an excuse to bail.

I thanked him for a great day and he thanked me back and said it was alot of fun. I was on my way to get into the car and he gave me a hug. I know what I am wishing for but I took nothing more about the hug other than it being a friendly hug. I am OK with the speed and the way we are progressing.

I did also offer to help him strip the stairs. he is doing a bunch of work on his new house. He said there was a good chance that he would take me up on the offer.

So basically things right now are going well and moving a perfect snails pace...just as they should for us to get to know who we have become and for us to have a healthy chance at any kind of relationship.

Last night he told me that he was sorry he hadnt been a good friend and that he has seen gret things in me. That he is proud of me and that he has thoroughly enjoyed our time together. That he is getting comfortable again. He said that he feels that we are at square one. SQUARE ONE! We are spending more time together forrest and it doesnt feel awkward. I will also say that he is going to come to my work christmas party with me and that will be the first time we will have done somethng together without the kids. It's not until November 18th but I can wait!

So wadd'ya think

Sorry again for the post but so much has happened!

[Forrest Gump]

What I am thinking is where is my Forrest Gump? You are giving a go at it but just havent touched that nerve yet. I am glad you finally saw yourself "in the rain". I know the you and your man will work it out. I can feel it. I would put money on it. If I was a betting man. I saw it pretty early on. I like what I see right now. I dont really know your frame of mind but what you are doing right now is where you need to be. It takes you from a Littlebitlost to Notlostatall. As far as me I had a fall off the wagon last night. I have been removed from my house. I feel weird being there with the kids so we dont stay there much until they go to sleep. I signed paper work to reduce the price on the house over the next three weeks. I left it for my wife. She asked me to leave it was not what I wanted. I have been calling about 11;45 PM to see how much longer she will be at work so I can be ready to go when she gets there. Typically we just pass in the driveway. Last night after I left I remembered that I left the paperwork for her. I sent a txt saying that the PW was in the garage and I had signed it because she wanted me to. Which is true. I dont want to sell the house. I am about to get a nice raise at work. She does not know about the raise. She txt back "you dont want to lower price" I responded back with "do I really have to answer that question". She did not respond to that. I should not have expected a responce. For some reason I did. Something in me just went crazy. I went to go drive it off and finally txt her a simple yes or no would have been nice. She responded back with "you did not want to talk when you left her" So I called her and asked her how am I supposed to act? Like everything is OK. As much as I want to I am finding it really hard to act as if. She wants space but she wants me to be nice. OK. Long story short she told me she felt sorry for me and that neither of us had changed. We did not fight it was good communication. Until she said what if we are not meant to be together anymore. So if I distance I am not doing it right. If I talk I am not doing it right. Where is the middle?

[littlebitlost]

I should not have expected a responce. For some reason I did

First of all forrest.....drop the expectations. Expectations = Disappointment. If you go into something expecting a certain response you are setting yourself up for disappointment. It is about how you deal with the responses you do get.

. Something in me just went crazy. I went to go drive it off and finally txt her a simple yes or no would have been nice. She responded back with "you did not want to talk when you left her" So I called her and asked her how am I supposed to act? Like everything is OK.

You should have kept driving......
Dont' call her and ask how am i supposed to act. You act as if you are OK. You are taking all of this in stride. You will be fine either way...THAT IS HOW U ACT. Forrest, I swear to you on all that is HOLY....this sh*t works. It did on me....but it does not work fast. You honestly have to make her think you are more than ok with this. You can tell her that this is the perfect opportunity for you to figure out who you are without distractions. If she says 'what am I a distraction? Say yes, the way we are interacting is a distraction and it is interfering with me bettering myself. Throw in whether you are better with her or someone else in the future, YOU WILL BE A BETTER person. She will, whether she shows it or not, probably be a little miffed with the idea that you would even consider someone else (even IF you really arent') It will make her think.

As much as I want to I am finding it really hard to act as if. She wants space but she wants me to be nice. OK. Long story short she told me she felt sorry for me and that neither of us had changed. We did not fight it was good communication. Until she said what if we are not meant to be together anymore. So if I distance I am not doing it right. If I talk I am not doing it right. Where is the middle?

It is hard to act as if....trust me, I know. She wants space?...then give it to her and TONS of it. If she asks where you have been in reference to it....you asked for space and I am respecting your request for it AND I think it is really helping me as well. Make most of it about you. If it is something she has asked for agree and then put in how much it is actually helping you in your quest. (maybe dont use that word eh? Sounds cheesy but you get the 'jist right?)

I cannot stress how important it is that she thinks you are ok. If you show her only positives in your interactions, that is what she is going to remember AND hard as she tries she will not be able to find things in you negative to bitch to her friends about or dwell on. It will become...wow he's really changing. What is up with him. I KNOW....I HAVE BEEN YOUR WIFE.


You have to lead the way forrest and you CAN get that ball rolling. It only takes one. How important is it to you. If it is important enough you CAN do it. I know it is hard. It is a crappy ride and I've been on it for some time. Yet now...I am starting to feel ok again....You will too.

I have an excellent book I can email you if you wanted me to. Dont know if you are allowed to share email addresses here but heimlich and I exchanged a few. Let me know if you want it.

Here's one for you Forrest. Stop running and try walking for a bit.....its a way easier journey if you do!!!

[waterlily]

Hey Forrest
I just wanted to say that I agree with your parents. Go see a lawyer. I'm not saying get a divorce but get a seperation agreement. Trust me on this one. I'm really into law and have worked for lawyers for years.
I've also watched so many friends get screwed over because they didn't have one and right now my brother is having problems with his partner and so hes trying to get an agreement in place. You kinda have to when kids are involved.
Thats the one thing that H and I are arguing about at the moment.
The good thing about a separation agreement is you put a clause in there saying that if you and your wife get back toegther for x amount of days, as husband and wife, then the agreement is null and void. But this covers your butt. I'm not sure what the law is where you are but it's worth it to get it checked out. Right now your wife can take off with the kids(not saying she will or anything) and there's nothing you can do about it. On the other hand if you have an agreement in place she has to notify you if she plans to take the kids out of the city kinda deal. It's a good thing to have.
Now don't get me wrong I hope that you and your wife work this out eventually and get back toegther. Providing that is what you still want. But in the meantime cover your butt please. You're way too nice to get screwed over.
Also this sets up a payment schedule for child support and alamony if she qualifies for it. But because it's all in writing she can't change it all the time.
I'm sorry if I'm butting in but I don't want to see you go through anymore pain.

[littlebitlost]

Lily

I agree with you to a point but I would be cautious in how you approach this....once a lawyer is involved things can get nasty quickly. You can do up you own agreement and have it notarized and the threat that comes with retaining lawyers is not there. I also believe that the laws differ state to state on whether you can leave the city with the children without the other parents consent and I would double check on this. You can also put those stipulations into your own agreement. This is what my H and I have done and I think that we agree that not involving a lawyer until you really know what you wnat to do is a good idea.
You can also put alimony agreements into this.

I dont want to step on your toes Lily but I think Forrest is (from what I understand) trying to save his marriage more than head toward divorce. Just my two cents for its worth and that might be all its worth ...dont really know.

[Forrest Gump]

So I am at the beach with the kids and mom and dad the room is tiny but free LOL. The weird thing about it is she is asking for space but wants to talk like nothing is wrong. She really is asking me to be like a friend. She wants to call me she wants me to call her. She just does not want the stress of talking about us even though she brings it up sometimes. When we do talk she does listen. So again just not sure what to do. No talking to much distance. Talking ok. Talking about stuff going on too far. As far as a lawyer I am just not ready to go there. I live in VA she can't take the kids and run leaglly. I really don't think she would. I know I won't. We both have agreed verbally to split custody I am good with that right now. In VA it is a no falut state so if the custody goes to court really you could take the dice thow them in the air and what ya get is what ya get. Sad but that is how it is here. Only thing you can do to assure custody is prove "unfit parent" which takes alot. Gross evidence. I don't know where I am going but I am going somewhere. Things are not that bad for me just sometimes I fall off the boat and have to swim back. Her favotite thing to say now a days is "Its Fine" I am begining to hate those words. She seemed sad when I was leaving with the kids but I don't put much into it. Really I was over my issue by 9:00 this morning it just hits me sometimes. Lack of sleep. Too much Nicotine. Not enough caffine. Or Burbon. LOL

[waterlily]

Little:
I'm in Alberta and here we have to have lawyers involved with a separation agreement. I agree 100 % that if you can do it without a lawyer by all means do that. Thats why I said to check into it. Because I didn't know where he was or what the laws are down there. If I had the choice I would have drawn up the agreement withoiut a lawyer.
I hope that he is trying to save his marriage. I don't really believe in divorce but now a days you don't need both parties to consent to get one.

Forrest:
I know that this is hard but all we can do is go one day at a time and see where life takes us. Just remember that you got two beautiful children out of this so that makes all the pain that you're going through worth it. Thats how I'm looking at my son. I get him so no matter how much his dad hurt me at least I get that.

I hope that everything settles into a fairly stable pattern for you soon. Sometimes its nice when things are at a standstill for a bit just so that you can catch your breath and relax a little.

[littlebitlost]

Well then LILY...I am in ONtario....a fellow canadian, eh? LOL!

FOrrest:
If you can aviod R talk to awhile...do. If she brings it up fine but you have to maintain that you are OK with whatever happens. I know this is hard but dont let anything she says affect you in ways taht she can see it. Save that for later when she isnt around. If she chooses to spend time with you then be the happiest person you can be. You will be that much more attractive to her. DOte on your kids. She will see that in you as a huge thing. (sure as hell isnt going to find that in anyone else in relation to your kids) the things she starts to see are going to hurt her and trust me she will probably resist. Noone likes to be wrong about the decisions they make and nobody wants to have to eat crow but if she is as confused as I was she will realize, once she sees how happy you are that you might be what she wanted and needed all along. I am glad that you had fun at the beach. It is FREEZING here so I am jealous!!!!!!

and if you fall off the boat forrest

'SWIM, FORREST, SWIM'!!!!!!

[Gone Dancin']

She wants space but she wants me to be nice.

Of course she does -- would you expect her to want you to be a jerk while giving her space? Who would want that? You have to exhibit some self-control and true growth if you expect to save your R/M, Forrest. She says neither of you have changed, and though I don't know you, your interaction with her didn't seem contain much effort on your part.

We did not fight it was good communication.

Based on what I read, you did not take the high road in the conversation. Just because you don't fight, it doesn't mean that the communication was good. You were being rude IMHO.

She really is asking me to be like a friend. She wants to call me she wants me to call her. She just does not want the stress of talking about us even though she brings it up sometimes.

And this is perfectly understandable. She walked away -- why would she want to talk about the R/M with you? Give her your friendship, Forrest -- that's all you can do right now. You're going to have to start over in a way.

When we do talk she does listen.

I found this statement interesting. What about you? Do YOU listen when you guys talk? Do you empathize with her and validate her feelings? I may be wrong, but somehow I see you a little too rough around the edges to be doing this. However, you're going to have to do it if you want to plant seeds of doubt in her mind. Show her you understand where she is coming from, and that you respect and accept her feelings (even if you don't agree with them).

Take control of you, since that's all you can do. Make sure you're doing 180s and making the changes that are necessary for you. If you do, she will eventually see them and a while after that, she will believe they are genuine -- just make sure you can make them second nature and genuinely long term. If she comes back, don't get comfy and go back to the old FG.

Take care,

GD

[waterlily]

Little:
Can you read my sitch and give me your opinion. I tried to send you a message but it won't let me.

Forrest:
Sorry to wtite on your page