Divorced but CANNOT "move on": Urgent Help Needed!

[Fender]

I hope you don't take this the wrong way but here goes.

You my friend need to move on and right now. The sitch sounds self inflicted by you. What is the heck were you doing having sleep overs with your XW for? No excuses about wanting to be with family either, you have not detached. Want proof?

You freaked when you found out your single, XW was having out of town sleep overs. So what? You are not married and you haven't accepted the sitch. There would have been no freak out at her place if you hadn't been there in the first place. This behavior is so not DB.

Something else, it is your opinion that you are the better mate for her. Not your decision.

Oh, here is a good one. Romantic rivial, if this doesn't tell you that you are not detached nothing will. Do you really view yourself as a "romantic rival?" I bet your X doesn't?

The e-mail thing just futher solidifies your inability to detach and move on. Again, not a DB principal. In fact it is something that is advised against. Kind of hard to defend yourself against accusations of obsesive behavior when you provide her enough ammo to take you to court.

Try this website, you are in serious need of detachment. http://www.coping.org/control/detach.htm


BTW, I had been with my STBXW for over 24yrs when she bailed on me. I know what it is liked to be replaced by OM. Get over it before you ruin the rest of you life.

[Dead Man Walking]

What is the heck were you doing having sleep overs with your XW for? No excuses about wanting to be with family either, you have not detached.

I'm afraid I don't follow you, Fender. Was there something wrong about my desire to remain close to my XW and kids? I thought that was the whole point of DB--to do everything possible to salvage a marriage on the rocks. I also don't understand your conclusion that I "need to move on and right now", if by that you mean that I should give up all hope of reconciliation before I have even attempted to follow expert DB'ing recommendations and procedures.

You freaked when you found out your single, XW was having out of town sleep overs. So what? You are not married and you haven't accepted the sitch.

I thought I had already addressed the reason for my panic: "...Think about it: that was the first time in about 20 years that either of us had been physical with anyone but each other. Wouldn't that shake a lot of guys up?"

There would have been no freak out at her place if you hadn't been there in the first place. This behavior is so not DB.

Again, I don't understand. Why was it wrong for me to be at my XW's house? I already explained that we were on pretty friendly terms, with her allowing me to stay there for several months off & on since our divorce. Do you also advise azhira to "move on and right now"? After all, she has a similar situation to mine: she shares a bed with her XH.

Something else, it is your opinion that you are the better mate for her. Not your decision.

Never said it was my decision. I absolutely believe it is true, however. No one she will ever meet will have my unique qualifications:
1. Has known my XW as best friend, lover, partner and provider for twenty years;
2. Was happily married to XW for at least 15 years;
3. Is the biological father to XW's children;
4. Is absolutely committed to bringing about the best life possible for XW and our kids;
5. Is determined to fulfill the God-given role as spiritual leader for my family;
6. Is intimately aware of extremely private circumstances in XW's childhood which effect her emotionally on a daily basis;
7. Has sworn before God to love XW unconditionally "as long as we both shall live".

Romantic rivial, if this doesn't tell you that you are not detached nothing will. Do you really view yourself as a "romantic rival?"

Now, I realize that I'm the "rookie" on this site. But I can't help but feel that you're not bothering to read my posts before commenting. I already explained that I read the rules of professional conduct on the Alabama Bar Association website. There is very little doubt that OM's actions would easily warrant an ethics committee review/investigation. Even you should be able to see that it crosses the line by at least suggesting the "appearance of a conflict of interest." I don't know whether my XW considers me a "romantic rival" or not; however, OM evidently does or he would not have given her free, long distance legal advice about how to remove me from the picture. (I still have his email messages as evidence, incidentally.)

Kind of hard to defend yourself against accusations of obsesive behavior when you provide her enough ammo to take you to court.

This may be the only valid point made in your post. I have already acknowledged--here and to my wife--that my blitzkrieg of voice messages, email, and text messages was stupid and counterproductive. The feeling that I might have permanently alienated her is what contributed to my desperation and depression. Which is why I had hoped to be told by others here that, as bad as my situation is, it's never too late to save my M. I recognize that there are no guarantees, especially at this late stage of the game. But I'm willing to start doing the right things (for a change) to give myself the best chance for success.

Try this website, you are in serious need of detachment. http://www.coping.org/control/detach.htm

Thanks for the reference; I will check it out.

BTW, I had been with my STBXW for over 24yrs when she bailed on me. I know what it is liked to be replaced by OM. Get over it before you ruin the rest of you life.

Fender, I am truly sorry to hear about your pending divorce. I, of course, don't know any of your particulars, so I don't know how similar your situation is to mine. Regardless, I'm not ready just yet to "throw in the towel". I hope I will know (if the time comes) when to "get over it", well before it begins to ruin the rest of my life.

[Dead Man Walking]

MRHIGHSPEED:

I appreciate you sharing the benefit of your experiences. You mentioned that your divorce is final next Wednesday. What, if anything, have you tried to do to head it off? When you say your X "became mentally ill", how so?

My XW has some fairly serious emotional problems. Her symptoms only manifest fully over a period of many months. So, unless any of her BFs dates her for an extended period of time (and is paying attention), she'll be able to mask her problems indefinitely.

Another thing that sucks is that I tried to warn her in advance about trusting the men who would respond to her personal ad. My XW is very cute, petite (5'2", 100 lbs.), and naive. She is very sweet and trusting of everyone (until they give her a reason not to be). That is the wrong combination of characteristics for a woman living alone who hasn't dated for 20 years.

I acknowledged that there were some "good" men who use on-line dating services; but, that there were at least as many insincere (or worse) men who would use her for their own selfish purposes, then throw her away. I begged her not to accept at face value the slick "marketing package" that these guys would present her with. I told her that there would come smooth-talking con artists who would pattern themselves after the criteria in her "want ad" in order to impress her. [I have read elsewhere at DB about the "emotional predator" types who are always looking for easy prey; sadly, that would likely include my XW.]

Based upon what I have learned about her new "steady" BF, he is a lion in sheep's clothing. I guess the irony is that he doesn't know what he is getting himself into when he chose his latest victim. I went into our R fully aware of my XW's problems--and determined to help her be happy in spite of (or maybe because of) her dreadful childhood. If her new OM is determined to become her next H, I guess they'll each get what they deserve.

I know that I'm powerless to stop my XW from making any decision whatsoever--even mistakes which will result in her being hurt, taken advantage of, or worse. I'm hurt and lonely since she left, and plenty bitter about how she's mistreated me via the legal system. Still, I feel plenty guilty about whatever happens to her. If I had been a better H for her, she wouldn't be in such a vulnerable situation now. Of course, I also worry about the impact upon my kids of a poor decision by my XW.

[azhira]

I still have his email messages as evidence, incidentally.

No snooping!!

I know the crazy urge. I have problems with it myself. But no more snooping, okay? It's a controlling behavior. Besides, all it leads to is crazymaking.

BTW, detaching doesn't mean you won't still have feelings. It means you won't let them run away with you, and influence you to do stupid things. These guys are giving you good advice--just much more brutally than I would phrase it.

My XW has some fairly serious emotional problems.

shrug So does my xh. So do lots of people's SO's. You can't fix her; you shouldn't try to. You sound like you think she's crazy for leaving you. So what? That's her decision, as an adult. If she were asking you for help, that would be one thing. But that's not the case. Respect her decisions as a single woman. It's not up to you to 'judge' who does or does not date. I don't care how 'wrong' you think they would be for her.

I know. I do it, too. I don't like my xh's FF JD. I think they would have a lousy R. I even slip up and tell him that sometimes. But, bottom line is, I can't stop him. I probably wouldn't think anyone is good enough for him.

I tried to warn her in advance about trusting the men who would respond to her personal ad. My XW is very cute, petite (5'2", 100 lbs.), and naive. She is very sweet and trusting of everyone (until they give her a reason not to be). That is the wrong combination of characteristics for a woman living alone who hasn't dated for 20 years.

So? She didn't listen to you. She doesn't have to. This sounds potentially controlling, as well. Again, she's single, and has been single. She can trust whomever she chooses to. You need to trust her decisions. It's not up to you.

I hate to say it, but you sound like you don't think she can take care of herself. And, again, it's not your job to protect her. Personally, I wouldn't want to be with a guy who didn't trust me to make my own decisions.

I'm sorry you're hurting. This is a crappy position to be in. I think it's also why you're so defensive. I understand your reactions, but regardless, clearly you need to do something different in order to have a better outcome in your next R. (Whomever that may be.) So, that means taking a good, honest look at yourself and your own behaviors to see how you contributed. It's not always an easy process, but it's definitely worthwhile.

Having said all that...you need to be focusing more on yourself. Exercise is a great PMA booster. So is GAL. Do you have anything fun planned for the weekend?

[kml]

DMW -
Here's what I see when I read your posts:

pursuit, pursuit, pursuit, pursuit, pursuit.

You cannot guilt your wife into coming home, nor can you reason her into coming home. Being clingy and needy is MOST unattractive. You are driving her away as effectively as if you were trying to do it.

She is MUCH more likely to come home if you do just the opposite of what you are doing now. Go dark. Quit contacting her. Start going out and doing exciting new things in your life. Be a little mysterious. Dress better. Work out and get fit. Travel someplace exotic. Take lessons.

Don't date, necessarily, but go out with groups and it's okay to let your wife get the mistaken impression that you ARE dating. LET HER THINK YOU HAVE MOVED ON. She won't miss you if she knows she always has "old reliable you" to fall back on.

Don't answer her calls or emails right away. behave as if your life is so busy and fabulous that you just hadn't gotten to it. Don't initiate any contact. Be a great dad to your kids. Get a promotion at work.

Do a 180 starting right this minute, because everything you have been doing is backfiring on you. Trust me on this.

Ellie

[whatisis]

What she said! I can add nothing more. Pursuit is a big turn off and won't get you what you want. Coaching her on how to online date properly is way overboard and I DO understand why you would want to. There is always a reason not to let go, but let go anyway. Start looking after you for YOU and she might get interested!

[whatisis]

Hey, in hindsight, I do have something to add here! You mentioned the concept of DBing as staying her friend etc and you are right, that is one method BUT the crux of DBing is to look at what you are doing and guage the results. If being her "best friend", protector etc isn't getting you any closer to your goal then you MUST do something different. That is DBing "if it isn't working, stop doing it and try something different". This is often a stumbling block for most of us because we get in our heads that a certain approach is THE approach and keep pushing it despite getting poor results. Your job now is to give her space, let her live her life without your expert guidance otherwise she isn't really without you, she can't miss you! That is hard to do, I know, but often what is hardest to do brings the best results. Good luck to you.

[azhira]

Hey DMW, hope you had a good night last night!

[Dead Man Walking]

azhira:

No snooping!!

You're right, of course. Back when I was still welcome in her house, I set up a new laptop for her--including configuring her email accounts. So, what with my "obsessive" reactions to learning about her dating plans, well... I couldn't stop myself from looking at her email, Inbox and Sent messages.

I know that was wrong on so many levels! But for most of our 19 years together, I never would have imagined that either of us would ever keep secrets from the other. I have never hidden a thing from her. To this day, she is welcome to read anything I have ever written anywhere to anybody.

But I learned a painful lesson. I wish I had not given in to the temptation to "snoop", since what I found only crushed me, and did nothing to help me talk my X out of her plans.

BTW, detaching doesn't mean you won't still have feelings. It means you won't let them run away with you, and influence you to do stupid things.

I finally looked at most of the information on the Detachment website that Fender referred me to. It was uncomfortable but enlightening to learn that some of the troubles in my marriage were due to irrational beliefs that I have held onto for too long.

By the way, after re-reading my responses to Fender's advice, I recognize some of my defensiveness that you mentioned. I realize that he probably was telling me things that I needed to hear. But I still can't accept being told that I need to put my XW behind me in order to "move forward" with my life--at least not yet. I may come to that conclusion at some point, but it's way premature for me to give up when I'm only just now learning about the contributions I made to the sabotage of my M. If only I had known what I was doing wrong early enough to avoid my XW walking out! It sucks to learn all this useful information only to find out that it may be "too little, too late".

Respect her decisions as a single woman.

Wow, that's going to be hard for me to do. I have to first come to terms with the cold, hard reality that she is single now. That acknowledgment still gives me the cold sweats. I never allowed myself to consider the possibility that my wife would ever be single again--because that would mean facing another uncomfortable fact: now I'm single again too. [I describe my status as "unhappily unmarried".]

I hate to say it, but you sound like you don't think she can take care of herself. And, again, it's not your job to protect her. Personally, I wouldn't want to be with a guy who didn't trust me to make my own decisions.

I never even thought about my concerns for her safety and well-being as being "controlling". Maybe that is what I was doing. I know I have no right or authority anymore to even offer my opinions to my XW on this (or any other) subject. Yet, I would have the exact same concerns if it were my daughter who was about to start online dating. (There's probably a lesson there for me somewhere: something about establishing emotional boundaries as part of the detachment process.)

Having said all that...you need to be focusing more on yourself. Exercise is a great PMA booster. So is GAL. Do you have anything fun planned for the weekend?

You're right again. I haven't been getting enough sleep, eating right, or exercising. A two-mile run would probably help burn off some nervous energy.

Thanks, azhira. You have been very kind with your sincere but measured advice. I appreciate your supportive comments. Heck, I appreciate everyone who has posted responses. I have already learned a lot. Still, such a long road ahead...

[Dead Man Walking]

kml:

...Go dark. Quit contacting her...

You're right; I had been doing just the opposite of what I should have been doing.

Unfortunately, my knee-jerk over-reactionary behavior (sending her dozens of voice, text, and email messages) was worse than counterproductive. My XW hit me with a restraining order for "harassing communications". She didn't have to do it. I promised her that I would "bug off" if she would drop her complaint. I told her that the money I would have to spend for an attorney was money that would be unavailable for our kids' tuition or our daughter's braces.

She initially relented, and told me that she would see what she could do to drop her complaint. Unfortunately, either her divorce attorney or her new BF (an unethical lawyer who gave her legal advice in order to get me removed from the picture) evidently talked her out of it.

So anyway, would "going dark" still have any significance in my case, considering that I really have no other choice? Instead of my XW being intrigued by my sudden silence, she may believe that I would still be bothering her if not for the restraining order.

Don't answer her calls or emails right away.

What I wouldn't give to have that option available! Unfortunately, my XW never responded to any of my attempts to communicate with her. She hasn't initiated a single phone call or email since sending me a short text message on 9/28 regarding the harassment complaint. I don't even get to say "Hi" to her when I pick up my kids anymore. I just call my daughter's cellphone from the driveway when I pick them up, and I stay in my car when I bring them back. I despise this arrangement, but I don't want to antagonize my XW any worse than I already have.

[When I read my own posts, I think how hopeless my situation must appear. No wonder I have been advised (more than once) to "move on" and put this nightmare behind me. The thing you have to realize is that I have my reasons for holding out hope that my XW might still come around. But, if the present scenario doesn't change over the coming months, I may have to reevaluate my thinking. I'm not willing to write-off 18 years together yet, though. I'll be patient...]