All hope is lost/help

[whapu]

Dis,
I meander around here from time to time and thought I would attempt to grapple with some of my thoughts.

I've written H a very brief letter this am. Things need to be said, whether in a letter/text/email/face to face

To me life is timing...everything needs to be choregraphed with precision. I am wondering if this would be the moment to express needs being met. Sometimes words lose their value when the recipient isnt really ABLE to absorb them. Please dont take that as a slight to either you or your H. I have been there many, many times but one thing I learned in my sitch was...it wasnt the message that was wrong...it was the timing.. I am like Cat and would be very interested to know how he responds to this...

He needs to know that I'm not happy with the way things are and that him still been here is giving me false hope.

Dis, I think he already knows this without you telling him but I also understand what a HUGE weight it is carrying that dialouge in your head around with you every day ...like a ball and chain. There is no false hope.....only you can put a true or false to the statement...he has no power over that...You already are an incredible individual to even give him the chance to remain (whether he can afford it or not)...give yourself a chance to become victorious by keeping air in the room..Things become dire when you "gasp" for air....

I have read what you said, however, can a marraige begin again from this? He believes he is here as friends, i think he is here because he can't afford to move out. (I tell you, I get more from my friend in terms of affection, good times, and support) I've tried really hard with been positive etc but he is not willing to go out with me, sit in the same room for very long or talk about anything other than work and kids.

All marriages begin as friends..(or at least most do )...So yes it can begin from this...One thing that helped me immensely was to keep getting through my head that my OLD marriage was dead...deceased....I should have had a WAKE now that I think of it to ram that thought at home. We're humans and we make comparisons constantly....the danger is when those comparisons become EXPECTATIONS. As far as long talks...I can relate from my perspective on this...It's hard to have a polite and enriching conversation in the middle of a battlefield. And that battlefield is within his head at the moment. Too much chaos and not enough birds chirping to allow him to let the words and his emotions flow. The old DB mantras come into play I guess...act AS IF and DETACH...your needs right now (no matter how valid) are being received as waves of PRESSURE. The only things that form from pressure is Glass and Ulcers...Neither are very solid...Distance is good as long as it comes from acts of love...
So I hobble off my soap box and most likely stumble away from making any sort of sense. I hope none of what I wrote steps on your toes and making me seem high and mighty...I am far from both...I step lightly all through my day...Let the healing hands of time and your deligence make your upcoming days brighter...peace

[RedHeadWife]

I think a lot of times, we end up getting frustrated b/c nothing seems to be moving in the "right" direction and our spouse is still acting like a dumba$$.

That's the time when we need to step back and just do the ultimate distancing act/dance. Otherwise, usually what happens is that we say or do something w/o truly thinking what is going to happen or what may happen as a result of our actions. Instead, we need to say, ok, I'm going to wait a few days and let my head clear and make sure that I'm really, truly sure of what I'm about to do/say instead of just "reacting" and regretting it later.

It's very hard at times like this. We want everything to be wonderful NOW. We want results NOW, but if that is not realistic, we need to sit back and make sure that our actions are going to get the results that we truly want before we take any action.

[azhira]

Hey d. I've had a rough couple of days, so am just now wandering over here.

I'll just reiterate what everyone else has said. He probably just can't give you more right now. But you're not moving backward. So, it's okay to pause for awhile. We all need to catch our breath sometimes, you know?

Um, well, I never initiate. I used to. I learned a few years ago that it almost never works. And, if I do, then he's almost always freaked out afterwards. But...xh has...issues related to sex and being touched. (I'm sure you can guess why.) He's much more comfortable if I let him lead the way. I've gotten much more understanding of this than I used to be. Sometimes I'll just make a flip comment or say that I'm feeling "frisky." If I'm feeling more brave, I'll give him a (non-sexual) massage, and if something happens, okay, if not, okay.

[cat03]

hey whapu!! glad to hear from you buddy, I truly agree with expectations. We need to readjust them to what's happening now.
My expectations now are for us to communicate and be understood, not much else, and even that is going to be a strech with my H.

[whapu]

Cat! Always good to see you floating about spewing your divine wisdom!

We need to readjust them to what's happening now.
My expectations now are for us to communicate and be understood, not much else, and even that is going to be a strech with my H.

As far as I am concerned, that is the "bulk" of this whole cr@p we are all going through! If we canm communicate and be understood, I think that is 98% of the battle...I dream of such days.....

You sound leveled off and righting the ship rather well cat. I will look forward to wiping my feet in your thread when you feel its time for it to appear...peace

[Evie]

Hi everyone thanks for stopping by and taking time to read and advice it really really does help.

Whapu - thanks for taking the time to read and write, you weren't trading on my toes, things need to be said, I get so carried away with my own negativity and emotion that I can't see the wood for the trees.

I guess i'm not as strong as you folks, i feel as if I have been carrying the weight of that ball and chain around on the top of my head!!

Update - H has been making lots of arrangements to go out without me, he has been totally detached and distant, but in another way it seems and if he had lifted his head from under the sand and still wanted to be free of me & the M.

H wouldn't come out for a drink with me when I asked. I needed to talk and our house is always like a railway station at peak time

I know you guys won't agree and I have probably done the wrong thing but here is what happened last night.

H agreed to meet me for a sauna at the gym after my yoga class.

In gym and after lots of small talk later I asked him why he was avoiding going out with me. His reply was 'well it's not working is it, you asked me to stay in the house and live as friends, which I am doing, we get on great talking about work and the kids, but there is nothing left'. I said the last thing he said to me about the R was that he was looking for somewhere to live and that it wouldn't work living as friends. I reminded him that was 2 months ago and I didn't know why he was in the house as he had never said anything, that I wasn't a mind reader

I then said I wasn't happy living as friends, but I was pre-pared to go to counselling or do whatever it took to re-connect and that we had to start somewhere and we had to learn to commuicate. I said I wasn't a mind reader and that his lack of even trying to communicate showed a lack of respect for me. He said he was only staying in the house b/c he couldn't afford to move out. I said money was not a reason to stay and that unless he wanted to work on the M, i wanted him out by Saturday. I then left him at the gym, not expecting him to come back at all. He must have gone to his cave b/c he came back 2 hours later.

H has emailed me about our kitten this morning, i was tempted to delete it, but I replied.

So i've blown all the DB rules out of the window and I can't go back on what I said either. I am pre-pared to go through with this, I know it won't change his mind.

I'm sorry, I feel as if I have let you all down. You guys are my lifeline. However all family and friends were not as supportive, you can probably guess what they've all been saying.

Your Thoughts are more than welcome and feel free to rant at me.

XD

[cat03]

You are an adult making your own decisions, all sitches are different, all spouses are different and what works for some wont' work for others. You did what you felt you had to, no need to appologize to anyone. I think we all have a limit and you reached yours, and now you have the truth. Whatever happens next will be for the best, perhaps once he is out and truly sees what it is to be on his own he will see things more clearly.
I was going over "getting back together", a book about separation. I believe that my own separation helped my H see what life out there was without his family, and had he never left he would not have learned a thing.

[RedHeadWife]

Hey, sweetie, you need to do what's best for YOU. If H living in the house was not working for you, then he does need to leave and either decide he wants to work out your M or not. In the long run, it will be for the best, I believe. Either he will realize what he is losing or you will be able to seriously "move on" without him.

I don't think you "broke all DB rules." There is a point where you are not willing to try anymore either and you have reached that point.

I have actually looked at a lot of sitch's lately and not understood how people could allow their H/W's to treat them they way they are -- with such disrespect. Now, granted, my sitch is pretty good right now, and I know that you never know how you will react to a sitch until you are in it yourself, but allowing yourself to be a doormat and allowing total disrespect and complete rudeness from your spouse is not "ok" in my book. I'm not saying that is how h is being to you right now, I'm just saying that, at some point, there needs to be a line drawn in the sand and you have done that. Either he is willing to work on your M, or he needs to leave and figure out what he wants.

[azhira]

The only DB rule about an ultimatum is that you have to follow through with it.

Him moving out could be good for both of you. Besides, it sounds like you're just sticking up for yourself. No need to apologize.

[Evie]

Thanks for all you support. I feel stronger having said what I have to H, but maybe also regret that maybe it could have worked out? I hope you guys are right that he realises what he will miss when he has gone. I doubt it, he never changes his mind when he makes up his mind to do something. I still maintain he was going to move out when he was ready ie when our property abroad was sold thus enabling us to have more cash flow.

He hassled me constantly yesterday and i kept telling him to go away and leave me alone. I'm busy at work, it's a huge distraction as it is. Words were said last night b/c of a misunderstanding through email communication, he said he can't find anywhere to live by the weekend (he wants the big house etc) all sorted straight away. I told him he will have to lower his sights and stay in a Bed & breakfast for the time being, but he said he wanted a flat so that he can have the boys to stay, I replied that for now they wouldn't be able to stay over. He thought I was stopping him seeing them altogther. Well you can imagine his anger (quite understandable) I have no intention of stopping him seeing the boys, I feel they will need stability as much as possible, I have promised him we can work something out and that I know I can rely on him where the boys are concerned. Maybe he can stay over and I stay somewhere occasionally?

I still believe he has huge resentments about my d's & xh b/c of the things he has being saying. He said also that his feelings were unchanged, that life was too short and he wanted some happiness. I didn't beg or justify I just said i'm sorry that that is how you feel and it has come to this.

I answered his emails this morning, just stating fact and hopefully not too much that he feels provoked. I told him b/c I felt he needed to know how much my d's love him and appreciate him and know that he has provided for and being there for them more than their dad ever has, i did question whether he would have taken on the commitment if he had known what the outcome was.

He said he has worked on this M?? How do you know if they have worked on a M? I feel he may have tried to fix 'himself' and not really put us a proiroty, that he has worked that hard at work to provide that we have become victims of our own life style.

If anybody has any insight and can see more clearly than me right now, i would really appreciate your input.

Have a great weekend.

XD