Is it time to cut him off?

[Trixi]

But Oh, how I hear H's come back afterthey get wind of another man getting interested in Mama!

If there was something that worked every time... then that's what every woman would do.

Sometimes what you say happens. And sometimes, their husband says, "oh, i'm so glad you found someone. that leaves me guilt free to go date who I want".

I am almost to the point of thinking that's perfectly fine. Guilt or no guilt- does it really stop them from dating ultimately? Do I want guilt to be the only factor that keeps my H from dating?

If I were out in the dating world (for real) wouldn't I want the guy to WANT to be with me for ME, not because of guilt? Ok, sure, guilt (commitment,etc) are great motivators to get a marriage thru the tougher times, but he moved out; he's not trying to make it thru the tougher times. He is looking for greener pastures. We have talked about commitment and marriage vows and he doesn't think they apply. In his mind, he already fulfilled his "commitment" when he stayed for kids.

I don't know if I can make it the rest of October before pulling the plug. He's cake eating. He 'knows' I am always here in the background, so if he isn't successful in his 'shopping' he can come back to me, the committed wife that loves him. He searches me out for comfort. He looks to me to fill his ego. ("Why do you love me? Why do you want me back home?" And I am so dumb, I answer him!)

I am a bloody fool. I feel like a jerk for letting him back in so easily.

[Dom R]

I don't know if I can make it the rest of October before pulling the plug.

Ya know what this usually means? It usually means the lbs is focusing too much on their spouse,and so gets depressed when they dont respond in kind.

In other words, this is your wake-up call to get back to Get A Life

You started the whole thing that way, and things went well for you. Now, seems like you've mostly rewired your schedule around him, and he finds you "not a challege" any more, and so I suppose "boring" or something.

So, I definately echo what Nikki said, about "focus on YOU for 3 weeks"... just not to the extreme of shutting out your husband.

The key word is "focus". You can have your "focus" on you, but still be open to other things that wander across your view. ie: "focus" doesnt have to mean "tunnel vision"

I think you did great on bringing up the whole "you're not dating me" issue to your husband, and obviously, he does too!

Seems like, from the conversation you had with your husband yesterday, that you are in a kind of "process" with him.
You had a discussion with him ("why are you so busy?" "hmm, you're right"), and it was a fairly rational one.

I'm guessing that, rather than having a sudden "revalation" where everything is magically perfect from then on... you're going to have a series of conversations with him, where you and he discuss the finer points of how you'd like your relationship to be.

that's the patient road, anyways. I think if you can stick to it,then perhaps you can jointly nudge things onto a road that both of you are happy with.

or, you can fall back to the "blow up and demand commitment" way. It has "worked" for some people. It might even work for your husband, after you shut him out for a while.
Here's the thing though:
You made an agreement. 3 months.
If you cant stick to this agreement, then that will be taken by him as evidence that you cant stick to any future agreement either.
So you gotta stick out the 3 months if you want credibility to him.

[Trixi]

or, you can fall back to the "blow up and demand commitment" way. It has "worked" for some people. It might even work for your husband, after you shut him out for a while.

It's not so much that I want to demand commitment, per se. I just think that I am being used as a spare tire until he can find the brand new tire that strikes his fancy. And THEN how am I going to feel? Fricking Used, that's how! He said it all when he said that "So far" we were dating exclusively. If that isn't code for "until I find something more compelling", I don't know what is.

What I want to "demand" is to not be second fiddle to a fantasy woman who is yet to appear. Now that the same refrain has come up ("I don't know what it's like to feel completely broken up with you or be independent in the house") I can see the writing on the wall.

Okay, agreed. Too much focus on the WAS. I grew accustomed to his presence, liked it too much. Enjoyed doing fun stuff on the weekend and didn't want to schedule home showings on the *one* day he would be at the available. My bad.

I think I should stop the sex, at this point.

Morgan made a good point when she said she wasn't sure what I wasn't willing to put up with.

Dom, I like the point the focus doesn't equal tunnel vision. Regarding sticking it out for the 3 months; I suppose I can do that- provided he doesn't keep acting like he has these last couple of times together. I have no desire to interact with someone who acts like I am an annoyance/inconvenience.

[Dom R]

I have no desire to interact with someone who acts like I am an annoyance/inconvenience.

Weeelll.... if you were going the "standard" route, the detachment theory woudl suggest you should just let it go.

However, the (apparently mostly working) relationship dynamic you seem to have with your husband, would suggest that you just tell him straight out, "you're being a butthead to me today; i think i'll go spend my time with someone who is nice to me".

the tricky bit, is in separating actual bad behaviour towards you, from "i'm not committed yet" behaviour.

there IS a difference between "treating you like an annoyance", vs "not agreeing to be committed to you yet", do you agree?


'cause if you insist on ["I'm fully committed" behaviour from him otherwise you get pissy at him]... that's just a semi-subtle twist on "demanding commitment right now".

[NikB]

I'm replying to a whole bunch of stuff at once - this may get long but hope it's helpful.

Guilt or no guilt- does it really stop them from dating ultimately? Do I want guilt to be the only factor that keeps my H from dating?

This falls in the category of "out of your control." NOTHING guarantees that he won't date - look at all the people here who thought that had the most devoted, committed H in the world, one who would never cheat in a million years... heck I believed that about mine for a very long time. In my heart I still want to believe it but I know I'm wrong. ANYONE may cheat, and you can't control it.

If I were out in the dating world (for real) wouldn't I want the guy to WANT to be with me for ME, not because of guilt? Ok, sure, guilt (commitment,etc) are great motivators to get a marriage thru the tougher times, but he moved out; he's not trying to make it thru the tougher times. He is looking for greener pastures. We have talked about commitment and marriage vows and he doesn't think they apply.

Yep. You're exactly right here, he doesn't want to be or feel married right now. He may or may not change his mind - and if he does, you may or may not want the M anymore.

I'd quit thinking of it as "fake" and start thinking of it that you ARE in the dating world for real. I think it will make it much clearer to you how to act, what to say, etc. You're still trying to both "win" him, and evaluate him as a long term partner. You would never put so much pressure on someone you were just getting to know. Heck you may not have met his family yet, nevermind something as important as going to Thanksgiving with them... maybe he's one of those guys who doesn't bring a girl home til he's pretty darn sure she's "the one"...

You might have chosen not to date others but he hasn't made that choice yet. Act that way and see what happens.

I don't know if I can make it the rest of October before pulling the plug.

What do you mean by this? If you mean filing for D.. well, that's pretty drastic and I don't think you're anywhere near that point mentally, emotionally, etc. I don't see it at all.

If you mean finally letting go and taking care of yourself... GOOD!! Don't wait one more day to do that, Agent99. No end of October, NOW.

Take control of your life - that's the key word - YOUR life. I totally agree with Dom, this statement tells me that you're letting way too much revolve around your H right now. I hope you'll take it as the wake up call it should be.

I am a bloody fool. I feel like a jerk for letting him back in so easily.

You're not a fool or a jerk, you're dealing with some incredibly difficult things here. That said though.. you need to really start taking care of yourself. NOW. Not when your H does this or that... not at the end of October or the end of 3 months... NOW.

Did you see my post about the Boundary books? Will you get one of those and see if it's got the "ah ha!" moments for you, too?

I totally agree with Dom that you should focus on yourself for awhile (not shutting H out but stop revolving your life around him), and see where it leads. Patience is your friend here, in many ways - financially, emotionally, all of that.

Set and work on some personal goals.

It's not so much that I want to demand commitment, per se. I just think that I am being used as a spare tire until he can find the brand new tire that strikes his fancy. And THEN how am I going to feel? Fricking Used, that's how! He said it all when he said that "So far" we were dating exclusively. If that isn't code for "until I find something more compelling", I don't know what is.

He's not there... he just isn't. If that means you're done, then fine, you're done - but I sure don't think you are.

Quit ASSuming you know what he's saying. He probably doesn't even know what he means half the time. It's not worth spending time analyzing it to death.

And stop acting like the victim,the spare tire... these choices are YOURS. Take ownership of that, and make the right choices for yourself. I can promise you that if you're feeling like the "spare tire," it's coming across in your actions. Know in your heart that you are beautiful, strong, wonderful, and act that way.

And then, as Dom says, if he's acting like a jerk you address it. Calmly, matter of factly, directly, and then get yourself out of the situation immediately.

This is an excellent point Dom makes:

there IS a difference between "treating you like an annoyance", vs "not agreeing to be committed to you yet", do you agree?

And if you go back to what I suggested, treating this like it really IS the dating world, I think this will become far clearer to you.

If you're on a date and someone's not committed yet but you hope they will be someday, you are either going to get clingy and pushy and they'll bail, or you'll keep being your charming, beautiful, wonderful self and they will be drawn to you and decide to commit to you.

On the other hand, if you're on a date and they're behaving like an a$$.. you're going to be 1. finding your way out of the date ASAP, and 2. thinking long and hard about it before you choose to go out with him again.

[Trixi]

Thanks so much for taking the time Nikki.
And as always, thanks to Dom

As far as him treating me like an annoyance-- he admitted that he was being a butthead and grumpy.

Regarding pulling the plug-- I did not mean divorce. But, I did mean going and buying a house. (Hah! That's not reactionary is it?) I do *not* want a divorce, at all. BUT, if I am forced into it, I want to be ready.

I feel stuck here in this house. I don't particularly like being here by myself-in the shrine to my H. And H HATES the apartment, so it's important to me that he feel comfortable here. He pays the mortgage and I know he misses house. I don't begrudge him that.

I went and looked some at homes. Discouraging. But I did find a real cutie pie that with some paint and new carpet and privacy trees could be doable. The price is right. Nice neighborhood.

Do I *really* want to buy a house right this second? Not so much--but I don't want to be stuck anymore. If he comes home, I want BOTH of us to KNOW that he came back for ME not the house. How do we accomplish that?


I do have one of the boundary books; I have set it aside because I just picked up a book about Emotional Blackmail to help me deal with my mother.(She has been in fine form lately and makes me crazy.) I notice that it seems to also coincide with boundary setting. I'll let people know if it is a good read or not once I am done.

Has anyone out there heard of someone reconciling and not having doubts when they hated their living conditions? If so, how is that accomplished?

[BryanS]

I feel stuck here in this house. I don't particularly like being here by myself-in the shrine to my H.

I completely understand that feeling. Felt the exact same thing when my W moved out as we bought the house for her mostly. I had to move out and get myself another place because I was losing my mind there. I think your looking for another place is an excellent idea, you need some space you feel comfortable in. It's a really bad feeling when you work all day and don't feel like you have any sanctuary to go to, especially when you're dealing with all this R stuff like we are.

Do I *really* want to buy a house right this second? Not so much--but I don't want to be stuck anymore. If he comes home, I want BOTH of us to KNOW that he came back for ME not the house. How do we accomplish that?

Interesting, my W made a very similar comment about the house. Anyway, I didn't buy for many reasons but one of them was I didn't want to do too good of a job of convincing my W that I was moving on with life. Getting another place says one thing, buying another place says something else entirely.

[Trixi]

Interesting, my W made a very similar comment about the house. Anyway, I didn't buy for many reasons but one of them was I didn't want to do too good of a job of convincing my W that I was moving on with life. Getting another place says one thing, buying another place says something else entirely.

My first thought when I read that was "oh, yeah..that's true..I wouldn't want to give the wrong impression." But then my second thought was "why not?"

If my H thinks I am moving on, then he can choose me completely; not out of guilt, commitment, obligation, etc. Out in the real dating world, everyone he encounters will have a life that didn't include him before they met. They'll have their own place to live. And I bet that it won't stop him one bit in pursuing them.

If I were to say to him, "I do not want a divorce at this point and ultimately would hope that we would reconcile. I can't continue to live in the house and you are unhappy in the apartment. I get that. You know I hate moving and that moving my businesses causes big down time. So, I am opting to buy a house. If we reconcile, then I am sure you will happily help me move back in and we can decide what to do with the house I buy. And if not, then I have already started to build my life and won't be forced into another move." I think that makes it very clear that I am open to reconciling. If I say that to him and he says 'no no no' then I would be open to discussing other options. From where I stand, though, the stage has been set that the only way for him to have clarity is to be in the house without me. Ugh- that blows.

[BryanS]

My first thought when I read that was "oh, yeah..that's true..I wouldn't want to give the wrong impression." But then my second thought was "why not?"

Cause you still want to reconcile at some point, yes? If not, then you're right, why not do it.

Don't you think this is a little reactionary, anyway? I mean, two weeks ago, you were waiting for his phone call, wondering what the subtext of smallest portions of your conversations meant. Now you're talking about buying a house and moving out. I get it, I've done the same things myself and I've found that the smaller I can keep the changes I make the better off I am. If you do want him back at some point, you need walk the line between moving on and leaving a trail for him to follow to get to you. Buying another house, in my mind, doesn't leave that trail.

Of course, you could be thinking you don't care if you leave a trail for him and again I would point to reactions versus resolutions. Resolve to be happy and healthy but don't react to his crappy treatment of you by throwing up your own roadblocks to reconciliation. Owning a separate house, again in my opinion, is a roadblock.

But, if I had the asnwers, I wouldn't be here myself

[Trixi]

Yes, I can see your point about keeping the changes small; but we have kept things relatively small thus far and it seems pretty easy to fall back into old habits.

The town where I want to buy is growing leaps and bounds and my thought is that *if* he changes his mind in the future, we can use the house as a rental. I don't think that the rent would cover the entire mortgage, BUT if I am going to make enough money to pay to support myself, then I will be making enough money to make up the difference between rent and the mortgage.

The trail for reconciliation will definitely be there. Heck, if he met a woman who owned her own home, I am sure he would date her if he was interested in her. If I own a home does it make it *easier* for us to reconcile? No. Does it make it impossible? No.

Will the effort that he would have to put forth assure BOTH of us that he wants ME? Yes.

Maybe I *am* crazy- I dunno. If I have to move to an apartment or rental house and I don't get to have the ability to "nest", then it will be *me* that misses the house and becomes resentful of the continued limbo. A rental by it's very nature is limbo. I am afraid I will become so angry at living in a rental that *I* won't want to reconcile.

The only thing I am not sure about would be the legalities. And in that respect, I guess it does sort of set the stage for a divorce. However, I could look at as me purchasing a rental investment and living in it for now. Hmmm...that one I could wrap my head around.