I wouldn't ask her about not wearing the ring. Remember in their mind they are already divorced.
I still wear mine and I'm not planing on taking it off until/if the divorce is finalized-18 months-if I can wait that long-trying to stay strong and it does really hurt to see her not wearing her ring
As far as my sitch I really don't want the rings back but I'm afraid she might pawn them out of anger/money then have huge regrets about it later or if we get back together.
Me 27 W 26 M 4.5 years Together 7.5 years No Kids Seperated 8/14/07 D bomb 8/30/07
It is true that in her mind we are already divorced. It just sucks. I'm at least curious about what she'll do with it. When we've seen movies where some woman dramatically throws her engagement/wedding ring into the ocean/a river/a lake, she's commented "Argh! No! Sell it!"
I don't know if that's something she actually feels she can do, though. It's alot different when it's a character in a movie then when it's you.
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As far as my sitch I really don't want the rings back but I'm afraid she might pawn them out of anger/money then have huge regrets about it later or if we get back together.
That's a toughie, there. If there is reconcilliation later and she's sold them, it's sort of a grounds to start over/rebuild. If there isn't, and she's sold them, and she feels regret...I dunno. I do think it's unkind to just sell off your rings, for cold cash, rather than just hold on to them to at least gift them to someone. It's also, to me, saying "this is just a piece of metal with no significant to me other than the dollar signs."
On a slightly different note, her attitude towards the Prius is kind of annoying.
In May, we traded in my paid-off Taurus (just 67,000mi on it) towards a used Prius.
We'd made 3 payments and she dropped the bomb. She paid the Sept. one willingly enough, but does not want to pay the Oct one or beyond ($150 each, btw).
She wants me to sell the Prius as soon as I can. She's driving her own paid-off Chevy Cavalier. I offered to let her have the Prius if she wanted, but she declined.
So, here we are, a car with $15,400 left on it. It private markets for $19,000. I figured we sell it for that, pay off the loan, then I'll take the $3,600 left over and put it down on a new (used) car.
She requested that if we have to make an Oct payment, that she gets $150 of that. I'm going to refuse, since she had the option of taking the Prius, and we entered into the loan together (her name's on it, too).
But it kinda pi$$es me off that she wants to get rid of the car ASAP so she doesn't have to make another payment. It's one of the things that've just red-flagged for me in this about how fast she wants the D to happen. :\
Her insistance on selling it before we've really talked much out other than the one conversation I outlined in this thread from 10/01/07, and the talk I had w/ her on 10/05/07 while she'd stopped by, makes me want to drag my feet on selling the damn thing just to show her that this isn't a break-up, it's divorce, and she needs to take it more seriously.
Deep breathes, my friend -- you are overanalyzing your W and her intentions, motivations, decisions, etc, way too much. Don't worry about the ring sitch and why she's not wearing it, what she's going to do with it, etc. She's likely not wearing it because it reminds her about the broken M, and these memories hurt right now. You can't control it, so don't dwell on it. YOU WILL DRIVE YOURSELF NUTS!!!!!! Also, don't you dare even bring it up -- no good will come from it. It WILL look like pursuing (because that is what it is), and it will no accomplish anything. Pleaes think about it. Let her reflect upon this decision on her own, and don't concern yourself with it. She needs to come back to you because SHE wants to, and guilty feelings stemming from your pursuing her won't make for a healthy return, if a return at all. Show her strength, resolve, confidence, understanding, compassion, etc. Show her a man she would be a fool to leave behind, and at some point down the road (and no one can say when), she may find herself rethinking her decision, post D or not. Just Act As If, GAL, and be happy. Stop the chase. You are at the LRT, so read and re-read that section of DR until you fully understand what it is you need to do.
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It's just on my mind 'cause she and some friends went to a low-key bar last night for a girl's night out. None of them are wild partiers, but I also don't know my wife's state of mind right now.
And even if you did, it's nothing you can control, and trying to will only make it worse and push her further away. Imagine that she is just a friend or a neighbor, and treat her with such respect. Don't treat her any differently. Concerning yourself with her choices isn't what you would do with a neighbor, so don't. Just be friendly, offer assistance her and there if she hints that she needs it, and leave it at that.
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But it kinda pi$$es me off that she wants to get rid of the car ASAP so she doesn't have to make another payment.
Listen, she feels like the R/M is over, so why can't you empathize with her needs to direct her financial responsibilities elsewhere? She is looking out for herself now, and you should be doing the same. It would show her much more understanding if you can give her what she needs/wants right now (within reason, of course), and I don't think prolonging the inevitable regarding the car is going to do you any good, my friend. Before making any decisions regarding your M and dealing with W, ask yourself this question:
Is what I'm about to do going to bring me closer to my goals, or push me farther away?
Take care -- I'm truly sorry for the way things have gone in your sitch, but you need to stay focused and not stray from what will give you the best chance at salvaging your M.
I'm trying, GD, believe me, I'm trying. I'm doing well in some parts, and weaker in others. The "be happy" part is a little hard right now in the empty spaces of the day (retail shifts and waking up in the middle of the night).
She's so emphatic that it's over and going straight-on to splitting out stuff up and getting out (w/o even a separation period! left on 9/14 and is done!), and yet still the kind, sweet woman I know in her ability to empathize. It's tough to deal with.
But on Mondays and Fridays (days when I have alot of free time) I HAVE been cooking nice food for myself. That feels sorta good.
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Listen, she feels like the R/M is over, so why can't you empathize with her needs to direct her financial responsibilities elsewhere?
I guess in part it's because I gave up a car that was paid off, and now I have to pay on another car, again, by myself. One that will be a lesser car than my Taurus was. Since she's already paid off her Cavalier, she doesn't have to worry about acquiring another car. I do. So honestly, I'm a bit upset because I have to downgrade my car to something I can afford now. Increased rent, utilities, and car payment suck.
So I'm being a bit selfish, there, yeah. But I don't have a problem with selling the Prius, either. I can't afford it on my own. It's her absolute insistance on how fast it must be sold that gets to me. :\
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It would show her much more understanding if you can give her what she needs/wants right now (within reason, of course),
I'm endeavouring to do that. But I'm also trying to not appear to her like I'm just going to let her roll over me with this and that I'm 100% OK with the divorce. I felt I took a risk when I told her that I wasn't going to assist her with filing fees (she didnt' ask, but had a tone to her voice like she was going to) because "quite frankly, I don't want this [divorce]".
I'm being kind to her, obviously, and not a jerk. But I still feel like I'm in total freefall.
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Before making any decisions regarding your M and dealing with W, ask yourself this question:
Is what I'm about to do going to bring me closer to my goals, or push me farther away?
I've asked that of myself, and come up with the right answer for the situation at hand a couple times.
Like my desire right now, to say the next time we talk something along the lines of "If I had known you were going to call it quits in when the first really big problem in our marriage came up and looked too scary to deal with, I'd have never let you put this on my finger" and then take my ring off and walk away, because I'm feeling a bit hurt and angry at the moment.
That would be MONUMENTALLY stupid, for about a billion reasons. But being human, thoughts of hurting back when we are hurt do come to our minds. But something like that would put a nail in the coffin of our friendship as well as marriage.
So, yeah, I do make sure to ask myself that question when I interact with her.
I'm hard at work, here. And I think there have been a couple small positives (grains of sand, in terms of their "size", but enough grains of sand make up a beach - or, at least, a sand-castle).
We hung out/did gaming tonight. It was a group of nine (9 is huge group for us, we usually have 3-5).
Overall, things went well. She and I didn't talk too much directly to eachother, and I will admit that I instigated some of the conversation - but almost all of it was light/fluff, and the stuff that wasn't fluff was not about M. Ex: 1) my mom's gotta have surgery on her foot 'cause she has 7 fractures in her ankle,
2) I'm thinking about accepting an interview for a job in a very challenging position with children w/ special needs that's way out of my comfort zone in terms of my experience, but a good move forward,
3) asking (after she'd mentioned something about it! I didn't bring the subject up!) if she'd had a fun time on her "girl's night out". When she said yes, I responded with "cool". Essentailly letting her know I was glad she'd enjoyed herself.
It was also tough seeing her, though - esp. since there were 3 other married couples in the room. I didn't want to get too physically close to her, execpt a few "side pokes" which are randomly administered to anyone foolish enough to stretch (I got other friends, too, not just W), and at one point I did plop down between her and B, after one of our friends got up and said "I'm going to substitute for [friend] while she gets cake!" ...and proceeded to imitate our friend...poorly. hehe.
So, all in all, I was upbeat, a little goofy, but there was no R talk or me trying to hug/kiss/hold hands w/ W. I acted "as if" things were normal aside from showing "couple-y affection" towards her.
Don't know what W thought one way or the other, but I think I did OK tonight.
One thing I remembered that struck me as REALLY odd.
I noticed at one point that "B" was wearing a ring on the ring-finger of his right hand. Didn't think much of it, until I noticed it looked familiar. Acting in a casual/random fashion that's typical to our gaming group, I said "Oooh, shiny, where'd ya get it?" and pointed at the ring.
Him: "Yeah it's neat" looked at it "I found it."
Me: "Where'd ya get it?"
Him: "I don't remember"
(note: this is a guy who really is a "kender" - sometimes random stuff finds its way into his pockets w/o him intentionally putting it there. he stole a pair of nail clippers from a friend once, w/o realizing it).
Now, I got a closer look at the ring, and recognized it as one that W had bought at a roadside stand for like $5 while we were on a trip in the Southwest. I wasn't 100% sure it was the ring, but I thought it probably was.
I said: "Hey, W, you've got a ring like this." (not accusatory, just "hey, neat, look"
W, looking at ring: "That IS mine!"
B: "Oh, yeah, that's where I got it!"
Then W proceeded to get it back (it was being passed between a couple people, she twisted B's arm and forced him to drop it in her hand).
I noticed then that she was wearing an old ring of her own on her right hand - she's had it for a long time, but hasn't worn it in years.
Also, B wearing that ring meant he had to be going through W's jewlery OR W was doing so while he was near. (him seeing shiny stuff, and getting interested, fairly normal).
So it strikes me as a little weird that B feigned ignorance on where he'd gotten the ring. Did he really forget? Did he just not want to mention it was W's? And, the biggie in my mind: Just what the hell? (in regards to him wearing the ring, then being elusive on where he'd gotten it).
I do believe you, MN. I've seen you working hard, but you need to work on the "stop thought" technique in DR whenever you start dwelling on things that you can't control (like the wedding ring, B wearing W's ring, etc). I know it's early in your sitch, and you're hurting a lot right now, but the sooner you can implement the techniques and strategies outlined in DR, the better off you will be. You will eventually get to a place where you feel an immense sense of self, personal power, inner peace, etc. You will become a better, stronger person through this experience. It will get better, MN, but you'll need to do everything you can to detach from W, GAL, and build a closer R with yourself. Ultimately, only YOU can make YOU happy.
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on Mondays and Fridays (days when I have alot of free time) I HAVE been cooking nice food for myself. That feels sorta good.
Great! I love to cook well for myself and my kids. Do this as much as you can, workout, run, etc. Get in great shape. Working out will make you feel better about yourself, and it also releases something (endorphins, I think) that helps you to feel happier than you normally would. Keep finding GALing things that make you happy and feel good about yourself. They actually have a thread (on this forum, I believe) where people have listed their GAL activities. It's a great place to go get ideas for yourself. Me personally, I workout, Lindy Hop dance, do things with my kids, shoot pool, treat myself to a good restaurant dinner once a week, etc. RPGs are great, but try finding things that will not involve W too. If you can find things to do that you've always wanted to do but didn't have time to do, W didn't want to do it, etc, then do those things. Also, if you can find things to do that would be a 180 for you and at the same time pique W's curiousity, consider doing them too.
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being human, thoughts of hurting back when we are hurt do come to our minds.
So true! However, you have shown that you KNOW the long term damage doing such things can cause, so just keep doing your best to use your reason during those moments of extremely heightened emotional drive.
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So, all in all, I was upbeat, a little goofy, but there was no R talk or me trying to hug/kiss/hold hands w/ W. I acted "as if" things were normal aside from showing "couple-y affection" towards her.
Don't know what W thought one way or the other, but I think I did OK tonight.
Sounds like you did very well, MN. The more confident and strong you can be, the better. This is not to be confused with cocky or arrogant, of course, but if you can show her that you will be okay with or without her, the more respect she will have for you, and the more she will likely reflect on her choices. This, coupled with showing her genuine changes in your old behaviors that helped to breakdown the M, will do you the most good w/ regard to both the W AND yourself.
And...
Don't concern yourself with friend B and that ring. Who knows and who cares (I know you do, but try not to -- it's none of your business anymore). Your actions sounded a bit manipulative, controlling, etc, to me. When you notice things liek that and they make you want to say something, check yourself. Let it roll of your back, because it isn't any of your business anymore.
You're doing great, brotha! Keep working!
GD
P.S.:
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Super-awesome triple post!
That was hilarious! I had a good chuckle at that one!
I also just remembered you're a Daily Show fan -- that's my favorite show! Stewart/Colbert in '08!
I know it's early in your sitch, and you're hurting a lot right now, but the sooner you can implement the techniques and strategies outlined in DR, the better off you will be. You will eventually get to a place where you feel an immense sense of self, personal power, inner peace, etc. You will become a better, stronger person through this experience. It will get better, MN, but you'll need to do everything you can to detach from W, GAL, and build a closer R with yourself. Ultimately, only YOU can make YOU happy.
I'm doing what I can (and will do more) to GAL. As for some of the LRT/other stuff, I'm having something of a hard time.
See, we have no kids, no house, so no need for contact other than work. So I'm "going gray" (not quite dark) here.
What makes it so hard is she's been one of the best and closest friends I've ever had - for seven years. Even before we got together, I loved spending time with her. So detaching myself has been an immensely painful process.
As for buidling an R with myself - therapy has helped some, and I've been remotivated to get into grad school and into a better job. That, and making myself feel better are things I'm moving forward on.
Time's a funny thing, right now, though. At times it feels like this is flying forward at the speed of light - others, it feels like these three weeks have been three years, and I'll never get my goals accomplished. Whee!
But I've felt some of that personal power, respect, and peace you've mentioned. It's a good feeling - and at those times, thoughts of my marriage do get pushed aside and I feel good about me.
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Do this as much as you can, workout, run, etc. Get in great shape.
I'm trying to scrape up the cash to re-join the gym instead of relying on guest passes. I think I can manage Mon and Fri at least. The rest of the week's full of 6-12 hour work days. heh. But I wanna get back in shape!
I've read what you've written a few times, now, and I'm trying to let it sink in. Hearing advice from you, since you're fairly close to my age, makes some of the LRT and GAL stuff feel a bit more accomplishable (don't think that's a word). When reading DR, and hearing of middle-age couples, there's a little more distance there.
I appreciate everything you've said - esp. the "wake up and keep moving forward" sentiments. I've started to get a little mired in some of the details about this, that I have to try and let go of.
Oh, and definately Stewart/Colbert '08!
(what's really scary is, if they ran, they would probably get a significant portion of the vote. Probably wouldn't win, but they might get a state or two!)
What's made this really hard is just how...surgical it almost is.
Since W walked out on 9/14, we have had very little physical contact. One hug, which she intiated, and we held hands for a little bit after it.
I haven't kissed my wife in over three weeks.
It doesn't look like we'll ever share a bed again, hug, cuddle, let alone have sex (missing that, too!). The fact that, unlike how some seem to have it, we don't even live under the same roof or seem to have real contact.
Just getting in my head/getting these thoughts out. If nothing else, I can come back to this thread later and see how I was feeling or what I was feeling at the time.
What's made this really hard is just how...surgical it almost is.
Since W walked out on 9/14, we have had very little physical contact. One hug, which she intiated, and we held hands for a little bit after it.
I haven't kissed my wife in over three weeks.
It doesn't look like we'll ever share a bed again, hug, cuddle, let alone have sex (missing that, too!). The fact that, unlike how some seem to have it, we don't even live under the same roof or seem to have real contact.
Just getting in my head/getting these thoughts out. If nothing else, I can come back to this thread later and see how I was feeling or what I was feeling at the time.
Patience is your best friend right now. I'm a little over two months in, and I'm not sure if things are actually getting any better or not. Sometimes I feel like they are, sometimes I feel like they're not.
Just take it a day at a time - It's tough. Don't build up your expectations for anything to happen right now. Work on yourself, follow the DR book and stick to it.
It's easy to get discouraged. My wife didn't touch me for two months. And even now, I'm lucky if I get a kiss a week, or even a hug. Do I get excited about it when it happens - Sure do. Do I think everything has changed? Nope. I've had setbacks and I've made mistakes, but I don't expect that fixing problems we've had for a long time in a couple of weeks is reasonable. That said, feeling like I'm going in the right direction does help.
