Here we go 'round in circles...

[SDFoundGirl]

P.S. I almost volunteered to come be your willing love slave sperm donor, then I remembered - D'OH! FRICKIN' VASECTOMY!!!

Now that's just funny! Thanks for the laugh!

[SDFoundGirl]

Thanks, Julie, for stopping by. I appreciate the moral support! I am just tired and wondering how much longer I can do this...and I hope H will be the man I want and need in my life. We'll see.

SD

[SDFoundGirl]

on 28th Sept your H was handing out the hugs.

Fast forward a few days and your needs aren't getting met.

SD - I'm confused. And if I am you must be too!!!

What's the deal. What is getting you so down? Step back and have a look at the WHOLE big picture, not just you and H.
What are your goals?

One day of hugs does not change anything. His attention and energy and effort are still largely elsewhere. So no, needs still not being met.

What is getting me down? The fact that I think I'd rather have a root canal than make love to my husband. I still feel interest and desire for sex, I just don't want it at all with him. When he touches me to make advances, I shut down completely. I feel violated and angry. I want to tell him to, "Please stop f*cking touching me." And, despite discussing it 3x now in MC, he still doesn't understand why I don't want to ML.

I don't trust him touching me anymore...it feels like it's always as a prelude to ML. He wants to get laid, so I get a hug or a kiss or he starts groping me when I lay down to go to sleep. He wants me to meet his needs, but mine mean NOTHING to him.

I guess I'm angry that I listened to him and have done everything he's asked and more, and he's not willing to do the same. Even when I'm telling him that I think of leaving because of this, it's not enough to light a fire under his *ss, stop making excuses, and DO something about it.

What do I want? Passion in my life. Desire for my partner. A healthy sex life. That's what I want.

SD

[Jen_Jam]

Got it. Now that is crystal clear and if I can get it, surely your H can.

But for some reason he can't. Grrrrr

OK, I have to pop out for a few hours, will post more thoughts later. There HAS TO be a solution here (sorry, I have a stubborn streak in me that can be a good or bad thing. It does mean I can be tenacious!)

The fact you've stated LOUD AND CLEAR that this must be resolved or it could lead to your leaving, and H still does nothing (or makes a token effort for a day then slides back) is worrying. What a numpty he is if he's going to let you slip away from him!!!

[Jen_Jam]

Ok - got an idea. I spoke to my H about your situation and he's come up with an idea. My H can never remember things either, he puts reminders into his mobile phone, sometimes 8 or 9 a day. It's the only way he can make sure he remembers things. Perhaps your H could do the same?

My H also had another good idea. he suggested getting a book and each day you write something in it you'd like H to do. keep it simple, one thing per day, for example it could be "scrub my back when I'm in the bath" of "give me a shoulder massage". All the things you want. Then all your H has to do is read the book and fufil the request. he should be able to remember to look in the book!!!

How about running this for 4 weeks and seeing how it goes? My H suggested that if your H forgets one day, to say "oh well, never mind, there's always tomorrow". You'll have to decide as well on your threshold - if H does 4 out of the 7 things, would that be acceptable? If he does all 7, then great, but if he only managed 2 ... well, it's up to you. Might also be worth reviewing it over the 4 weeks, so that's 28 days, decide how many "hits" you can accept and how many "misses".

OK - now here is the hard bit. I told my H that you'd spelled out that if he doesn't pull up his socks it could lead to you leaving. My H reckoned one of 2 things:
1. Your H just is really forgetful
2. Deep down he doesn't really want to work on the M.

OK, I know the second one can be hard to take, but I also reckon at this point whatever H said you'd be fine, that you just need to know one way or the other, as it seems this is stopping you from moving forward.

So - if you do the book, and he doesn't try (or tries hard for a bit then it tapers off)... you have concrete proof, statistics even. You can say to him "out of the 28 requests, you only did 8" (for example) ... it might be time then to ask him to really lay his cards on the table.

As for me, well I feel if you've really said to H "please give me more intimacy and if you don't I will probably end up leaving you and I don't want to" ... blimey! How much clearer can you be? The only thing I think is maybe telling him isn't working, is there any other way of communicating to him? For example, he starts on you for sex, and you say no. You then state calmly you've asked him for what you want and you feel ignored. I'm getting at maybe actions will speak louder here?

I'd have a read of DR again ... the tools for getting what you want (do a 180, do nothing etc). I would have a look in mine but I can't find it!!!! Once upon a time that book never left my side, but now ..... I feel it's high time for an update on my thread.

Anyway - onto you. SD, can I just say I do admire you a lot. The fact you are so willing to find solutions and not just throw in the towel ... you've been one of my heros in this ... many many times when i felt bad I'd imagine i had you, Scott, Rob and Jeff around me to support me. Friends are like angels - you don't have to see them to know they are there. Thank you.

[SDFoundGirl]

Okay...I'm going to explain the situation and share what I think I'm going to do about it. I'd love your input/fine tuning/OMG what a messed up buncha cr@p that is about it.

H sat down with me yesterday while he was complaining about work (again) and said, "I need your permission to leave." Meaning to quit. He's at the end of his rope there, miserable, so I understand the desire to leave. At the time I told him that totally supported him, but that the reality is that we have bills to pay. If he quits with no other job, we cannot pay our bills. He looked crushed...and I just felt like sh!t.

By the time this morning rolled around I was feeling angry/irritated/frustrated, so I took an hour or so of my day to journal about it to figure out what *really* bothered me. Ultimately, I came to these conclusions:

1. I am not his mommy, so I am not in charge of the decisions he makes. I can provide my opinion and my input, but ULTIMATELY he is responsible for making his choices. To put me in that position is to set me up for failure...he'll stay, but he'll blame me for his unhappiness, also NOT my responsibility.

2. He is running Away From instead of Running Towards. Semantics, perhaps, but I think it makes all the difference in the world. He doesn't know what he wants to do...some talk of opening his own business, but you don't just decide to do that and quit with no other income, savings, or contingency plans. Really, he doesn't know what he wants.

I need to sit down with him and have the conversation like I wish I'd had yesterday. Here is a list of points I want to make:

1. I am not responsible for your decisions. They are yours to make, and I will provide my best thinking and questions to help you make your decision.

2. I am not responsible for your happiness. You choose your world. It is not for me to give you "permission" to do anything.

3. I love you unconditionally, and I will support you in any way I can to help you find a job situation that satisfies you. I want only good things for you.

4. If you quit your job, we will be short $1000/month to pay our bills. We'll have to file for bankruptcy.

These are facts. I am not willing to be responsible for his choices. He's been complaining about this job for more than a year, he's been talking about leaving for longer than that. He has sent out no resumes...has done SOME thinking about what he wants, but nothing to move in that direction. He is in the situation he is in because of his own decisions and actions. I want better for him, but it is not in my power to give those things to him. Only he can do this.

So...what am I missing? How can I fine-tune this thang? I know that unless I speak up, I won't be okay. He can still blame me if he wants; that's completely out of my control. But deep down he'll know and I'll know it's not my fault.

I'm comfortable with him leaving if it comes to that. To be other than authentic is suicide for me. He used to set me up like this in the past...and I fought him and was angry, but I also sort of bought into the idea that it was MY fault because I was too scared/too controlling/whatever.

I'm not afraid anymore. This is just the truth.

SD

[Jeff223]

Okay ....

Let us start. With the bark on. I cannot help myself:

he was complaining about work (again)

He is trying to share, to open up...

"I need your permission to leave." Meaning to quit. (again)

No. He is asking your opinion. Do you consider him a quitter? If so, you have problems - with you.

At the time I told him that totally supported him, but that the reality is that we have bills to pay.

BUT ....????

(you said BUT)...........What do bills have to do with it???

I am not his mommy, so I am not in charge of the decisions he makes.

No, you are his W. He is asking for HELP with his decisions. He is reaching out. How will you respond??? My W never asked - I am in D court.

He is running Away From instead of Running Towards.

How do you help him Run Towards??

I need to sit down with him and have the conversation like I wish I'd had yesterday. Here is a list of points I want to make:

SIT DOWN??? Does that help him, or you??

List YOUR points YOU want to make? Are we being a bit controlling here??

There is a big difference between boundaries and control .. but you know that.

I am not responsible for your decisions. They are yours to make, and I will provide my best thinking and questions to help you make your decision.

You are not responsible. Good. But can you help, without *helping* (listening skills??)
I will provide "my best thinking"??????? Get out of the thinking line (Myers Briggs) and get into the FEELING. How can you EMPATHIZE with him?

Or do you feel you have to help him SOLVE his problems??? Can he not make decisions on his own?? If not, why did you M him?

I am not responsible for your happiness. You choose your world.

Yes.....BUT.... Why the hell are you married?? He wants HELP in choosing his world. That is why you are so great. Help him, without *helping*.

I love you unconditionally, and I will support you in any way I can to help you find a job situation that satisfies you. I want only good things for you.

Sounds kind of hollow does it not? Show him - don't tell him. If he cannot figure that you are there for him then why tell him??

If you quit your job, we will be short $1000/month to pay our bills. We'll have to file for bankruptcy.

Does he not know that already? Is it the money SD or .....

What message are you communicating?

Men are programmed to be the bread winners. What do you think H feels when you question that???

He can still blame me if he wants; that's completely out of my control.

Yes, but only if you do not drive him there....... Then it IS in your control...

I know that unless I speak up, I won't be okay.

You will not be okay? Why???
*Speaking up* and communicating feelings are two different things. But you know that.

I'm comfortable with him leaving if it comes to that.

Sounds like a decision to me. Is it????

Time for the 48-hour rule girl.

Use it.

[forever21]

Okay, SD... my thoughts....

That was a really tough position he put you in yesterday. I think you handled it great. I TOTALLY understand why you were left feeling like sh!t though. That was a no-win situation for you. And it's BS!! Though I will give your H the benefit of the doubt, and say I'm sure he didn't mean for this. He probably is just unaware.

I'd say to stick to sharing only your feelings with him. That wouldn't mean you can't touch on each point you mention, but just communicate from a place of your feelings and not so much opinion. If you can add "like" after "I feel" and it still makes sense, then it's opinion and not your feelings. And it's got to be kept very simple.... which is not easy, I know.

Of course you're feeling angry, irritated, frustrated. I would be too. Good for you for seeing through all of this, and what is really going on! You can be authentic and not fight him or be angry.

I'm not sure telling him what he's doing wrong or pointing things out to him will be helpful. I think it's safe if you stick to your feelings. Just my $0.02

1. I am not his mommy, so I am not in charge of the decisions he makes. I can provide my opinion and my input, but ULTIMATELY he is responsible for making his choices. To put me in that position is to set me up for failure...he'll stay, but he'll blame me for his unhappiness, also NOT my responsibility.

That's right...... how does that make you feel?

"H, when you told me that you needed my permission to leave I felt_____________________________"

Did you feel defeated?

I think it's okay to tell him you fear you would be blamed for his unhappiness.

2. He is running Away From instead of Running Towards. Semantics, perhaps, but I think it makes all the difference in the world. He doesn't know what he wants to do...some talk of opening his own business, but you don't just decide to do that and quit with no other income, savings, or contingency plans. Really, he doesn't know what he wants.

Yep, I'm with ya here too... he seems to be running away. But pointing this out to him might not be helpful. ?? Again, how do you feel? Are you worried....? If there is anything positive you can share that'd be good too... like if you are hopeful he goes after something that he would be passionate about.

1. I am not responsible for your decisions. They are yours to make, and I will provide my best thinking and questions to help you make your decision.

2. I am not responsible for your happiness. You choose your world. It is not for me to give you "permission" to do anything.

3. I love you unconditionally, and I will support you in any way I can to help you find a job situation that satisfies you. I want only good things for you.

4. If you quit your job, we will be short $1000/month to pay our bills. We'll have to file for bankruptcy.

I'd leave off the bankruptcy part. Also, how about saying something more to empathize with the position he is in? Something that could serve to make clear to him that this IS his decision to make and NOT yours??

I think you're doing a really good job. Good luck, will be thinking about you.

[Rob1231]

Hi SD,

Gotta run, but I have a zillion thoughts I want to share - will get back to you later...

Rob

[Concerned_Listener]

SDF Girl,
The rule my W and I have is that neither one of us quit a job without having another one lined-up. We don't put the other person in a difficult financial situation. The exception is if the job is so toxic that it's affecting one's health.

Is your H job hunting? If not what's keeping him stuck?

I know it's hard to be supportive of a spouse with job dissatisfaction, when financial issues are intertwined. It's also hard to be supportive when the other party fails to be proactive about solving their problem.

I think all you can do is to be a good listener around these issues for your H, set an expectation that he has a responsibility to the family finances, and provide whatever help you can in helping him find a different job.

Until he's ready to commit to looking for something different, than his procrastination and avoidance are his issues, and all we can do is be a good listener, and help him sort things out, and muster the courage to make a change.

I would not give him permission to quit, unless his health is in jeapordy.

CL