Remembering myself, Part II

[OG_Lou]

Imconfused0807
I'm seeing Dom's POV, but what I'm also seeing is a general feeling of negativity towards any of his suggestions without much in the way of any alternative ideas.
Dom’s ideas are not a problem as I see it. His intensity is.

Dom’s suggestion if Karen1 tries a particular activity, the results will be a 50% success rate doesn’t seem to be realistic to Karen1 or me. I would estimate other people on the forum see the success rate of the said change/behavior to be closer to the very low end of the scale and accompanied by some fall-out from Mr. K1

Before I do most things to change my R with BB, I estimate the energy required on my part and what the down side might be before I implement the said change.

One partner making changes does not happen in a vacuum. There are always some costs to the OP, the R, and myself. Sometimes the benefits outweigh the cost, sometimes they don’t.

My R with BB is strained many times, and like most people me doing the same thing but more intensely, hasn’t netted me many good results.

Dom’s suggesting do something is good advice. Cobra told one poster to do less, include less activity or verbal content in his actions towards the SO, and make the SO fill in the blanks. I had to withdraw from BB to implement some of the changes in our R.

My opinion of K1 is very high. I think she is a very capable person but so is her H in his own way.

Heywyre, GEL and Karen1 have somewhat similar cases to varying degrees. The people that suggested K1 and her H see a sex therapist idea is good, which I think is the way to go.

Lou

[stu]

He wrote a very considerate response where he said that from where he sits I am doing all the right things and that he is sorry that he has been emotionally and physically bankrupt due to his work schedule.

Sounds very familiar. The problem here is (if I read the personality correctly) there will always be some crisis (internal or external) that gets in the way of intimacy. Thoughts?

[Dom R]

I guess we've established that Mr. karen likes sex alone.

when did we establish this?

I asked a ways back, if karen KNEW he was doing this, and if so, where/how. I didnt see a reply to this.

[Dom R]

Oooo.. good job stu, on pulling out that one critical sentence from Karen's post, that I actually MISSED READING somehow!
sorry

Karen, this is a wonderful thing from your husband.

I think that the main thing you need to do further, at this point, is get a commitment from your husband as to when his schedule will change.

In other words, change his 'excuse', into a commitment. and ideally, put some form to it.
As in, "right now, you are working too hard, for us to have good time together. After this is done, you're going to scale back, and not take on that much work, and make us your first priority, right?"

Otherwise, like stu says.. there will always be some new crisis that comes up, to replace the old ones. If he doesnt have the commitment to put your marriage first, then he will just take up a whole new set of extra responsabilities, to replace the current load of "too much responsability/work commitment".

[Imconfused0807]

Dom's ideas are not a problem as I see it. His intensity is.

I don't. I tend to see people in general be very intense about their careers, finances etc.. but when it comes to their marriage, maybe they're not as intense. Why? Personally, my marriage, my family take priority over any career I may have.

Dom's suggestion if Karen1 tries a particular activity, the results will be a 50% success rate doesn't seem to be realistic to Karen1 or me. I would estimate other people on the forum see the success rate of the said change/behavior to be closer to the very low end of the scale and accompanied by some fall-out from Mr. K1

50%, 25%, 10% whatever. The way I see it, Dom's suggestions will either work or they won't. If they are not tried, I can without question tell you that they will have a 100% failure rate. As for the fall-out from Mr. K1, judging from what I'm reading, how much more can he fall-out?

I guess it's a risk/reward scenario. Except for the lack of intimacy in my marriage, I consider it to be good. I love my wife. I can't really imagine life without her but for me it was a risk I'm willing to take to try and make what we have together better.

Before I do most things to change my R with BB, I estimate the energy required on my part and what the down side might be before I implement the said change.

Ok, now change that around. Your looking at the down side and Dom is looking at the up side. Is the glass half full or half empty?

One partner making changes does not happen in a vacuum. There are always some costs to the OP, the R, and myself. Sometimes the benefits outweigh the cost, sometimes they don't.

I agree. It goes back to the risk/reward scenario. Maybe I'm wrong but to me, Karen is here because she is not happy with how things are in her R. I don't see her as being here just for the support. IMHO, Karen needs to weigh her risks and determine if she is willing to take them for the rewards/costs associated with them.

My R with BB is strained many times, and like most people me doing the same thing but more intensely, hasn't netted me many good results.

Dom's suggesting do something is good advice. Cobra told one poster to do less, include less activity or verbal content in his actions towards the SO, and make the SO fill in the blanks. I had to withdraw from BB to implement some of the changes in our R.

Did withdrawing work? I withdrew and not only did it make me miserable, but it made many around me miserable as well. Some stuff that Corri, Dom and a few others have said, has really hit home with me. Being upbeat and positive is tough at times and being the opposite is usually the easy, more natural road traveled. But to me, that road isn't going to lead me to where I want to be

My opinion of K1 is very high. I think she is a very capable person but so is her H in his own way.

I've said it somewhere on here before. I'm fairly new here, I don't know her and conversed with her like some of the rest of you have.(she has given me a visual or two that kind of made my heart skip a beat ) What I can tell you is that Karen is one of true inspirations to me on this forum. I don't sense the "woe is me" attitude from her. She knows her situation. She knows it's tough. I don't think anyone would fault her if she threw her hands up and said "I'm done, I want out" But she doesn't ! She takes her situation with grace and a determination to make it be better That is what inspires me

Heywyre, GEL and Karen1 have somewhat similar cases to varying degrees. The people that suggested K1 and her H see a sex therapist idea is good, which I think is the way to go.

I agree Lou 100%, but I'm not discounting some of Dom's ideas either.

Lou, call me dumb, dense, whatever. I'm just not getting it...I know who you are speaking of when you say BB. I'm pretty good with most of them, but what the hell does BB mean????

[Lillieperl]

Lou's name for his wife is BB. I've forgotten why.

Lil:I guess we've established that Mr. karen likes sex alone.

Dom: when did we establish this? I asked a ways back, if karen KNEW he was doing this, and if so, where/how. I didnt see a reply to this.

Good point. DID we establish this?

Dom's premise, as I understand it, is that (dare I use the n-word?) normal people will want some kind of sex at some point. Or maybe it would be better to say it is normal for people to want some kind of sexual stimulation at some point.

But does mr karen want any kind of sexual stimulation (from karen, another woman, a guy, or himself) at any point? We don't know.


I remember a discussion a long while ago, where a couple of the formerly LD wives on this board (Mrs. NOP was one, but I don't remember who the other one was) were talking about orgasms. Some one said (and I don't think it was me, but it is a thought I've had), "If you have an orgasm and it feels great, wouldn't you like to have another one some time in the future?"

And the woman (Mrs. NOP or somebody else-- maybe it was Chrissy) said, "I have orgasms, and I love them, but if I never had one again, it would be perfectly fine with me.

This seems to be mr karen's attitude, and frankly, my bf's attitude, too. When I have a really great time in the sack with someone and a really great orgasm, usually I'm looking forward to the next time. But I guess some people don't.

In one of the Schnarch books, one of his male clients said something like, "When my wife and I have a really great time in bed and we both have great orgasms, I'm NOT particularly interested in doing it again soon, because I'm not sure I can replicate the experience." He feels that the "great time" kind of raises the bar, and he may not meet it next time.

Maybe mr karen thinks like this...

[OG_Lou]

I know who you are speaking of when you say BB. I'm pretty good with most of them, but what the hell does BB mean????
BB is my wife in general terms. Because she has an independent minded set at times, I use her pre marriage initials.

I have a hang-up including the term "MY" in most of the conversations I have with people unless it pertains mostly to something I individually own or do. The dogs that live in our house I rarely refer to as "MY" dog/s. I am their guardian/caretaker, but they are not mine to do as I decide willy-nilly.

BB is an individual that isn't owned by anyone but herself. We have a contractual obligation and commitment obligation to each other but neither one owns the other.

Another reason for not referring to BB as "MY WIFE" she does some things I feel less connection to her because of it, and her attitude frequently goes along the lines, “men are pigs/controlling and many women would be better off single. That is her talk but her actions say otherwise..

Before she was the med nurse at a facility that had a 28 day Codependency treatment program, I felt we were "MY" to each other. After she worked at that facility for several years, I gradually saw two independent people who share a history, better than room mates but not like we were married before she started working for the Codependency program at the mental health facility.


I don't like some generic terms and I don't like saying MY WIFE" because I wouldn’t introduce her to another person that way in real life. I would use her name.
Example:
Imconfused0807, this is BB. We have been M for 39 years and live at 123 Easy Street since 1974. We have 2 kids, 2 grand kids, and yada yada.

BB this is Imconfused0807. I met him online when we were discussing XYZ relationship book topic.

Lou

[Dom R]

Dom's premise, as I understand it, is that (dare I use the n-word?) normal people will want some kind of sex at some point. Or maybe it would be better to say it is normal for people to want some kind of sexual stimulation at some point.

that might be putting words in my mouth. that is to say, i may agree with that statement, but I am not trying to apply that to karen's situation directly.

Only in the context, that it would be normal for HER to want sex, and if those wants go unmet indefinately, it would be a Bad Thing.

her husband is not "normal" right now, for unknown reasons. since we dont know why, we dont know how long that will last.

but frankly, i find that irrelevant
If he cares about his wife, he should recognize that SHE wants sex,and so he has a duty to meet her needs in that area.
Whether he is sexually aroused or not.

[Dom R]

Dom's premise, as I understand it, is that (dare I use the n-word?) normal people will want some kind of sex at some point. Or maybe it would be better to say it is normal for people to want some kind of sexual stimulation at some point.

that might be putting words in my mouth. that is to say, i may agree with that statement, but I am not trying to apply that to karen's situation directly.

Only in the context, perhaps, that it would be normal for HER to want sex, and if those wants go unmet indefinately, it would be a Bad Thing.

[OG_Lou]

Imconfused0807, I think Dom has a lot of good textbook ideas and I see his intention as the glass being more than half full.

The problem I have is applying many of the good textbook ideas.

I occasionally see an individual Counselor and bring up the textbook ideas and how to apply them. That is the Rub.

If applied too aggressively, sometimes the good intentions dig you in to a deeper hole.

My opinion of Karen1's position is, the more she does, the less Mr. K1 has to do or will do. Is that progress or trading one problem for another problem?

I tried to be the fixer in our M. It didn't get me much of what I wanted. Oh, my W loved my changes, even said so many times. We went to MC but danced around some topics because I didn't want to hurt her feelings.

It took several fights and me saying I didn't want to live with her and another year for me to see my W's passive aggressive actions diminish. I fixed the main problem (her shopping addiction at the time) but the sex also dropped.

We talked about the sex we have in our R but my W is firm about she can’t feel what isn’t there naturally. I see the same mind set in other LD female posters. Some LF females get the message that sex is important only when the H is about to leave or has an A.

What it would take for Mr. K1 to wake up and to increase his SD for Karen1, I don’t know.

I am not saying Karen1's situation is like mine but I think I can read her posts and see where she doesn't want to trade crappy sex for some other losses in another area of her married life.

I know not bring up issues doesn’t help the R. I know people dig their feet in and become extremely resistant to the spouses request if too aggressive tactics are employed.

Because I only have a college BS degree, worked in a group home, have been M for 39 years, take an interest in what it takes for people to have good relationships and I don't play a family therapist on TV, what I post is my opinion, based on what works and what doesn’t work in my life.

What I can tell you is that Karen is one of true inspirations to me on this forum. I don't sense the "woe is me" attitude from her. She knows her situation. She knows it's tough
Yes karen1 and many other people on the forum are true heroes in their own right.

Lou