muddled and angry: Puddle's third thread

[Puddle]

Hey everyone,

On to thread number three, where I can report, thanks to Heim, a new insight into H. But first:

Not turning over every stone to see if that connection can be regained, especially with kids involved, is the coward's way out.

I agree, but have to laugh when I imagine saying that to H: to him certainly another example of how badly I misunderstand him.

So, while you're being honest, you've got to express that you think that things could be OK, BUT that you don't NEED him.

I have said this, in that conversation when H finally understood that I didn't want to just go back, but rather that I believe we have a shot moving forward.

Maybe you could approach conversations with him by asking him to ask you questions.

Thanks, I like this idea. Right now his questions feel a bit overwhelming: "What do you want?" It's too big. Need to break it down.

He's an emotionally immature idiot if he just thinks that he's going to connect with someone and it's going to be ticker-tape parades and kisses for the rest of this life

I don't think he necessarily thinks this (and would certainly disagree with the characterization), but rather that he wants that a priori connection to build on (or something). But yeah, I think he's putting a lot of weight in the wrong place. Again, nothing I can or should tell him.

Same reason I shouldn't have told my W the girls aren't doing well. Just pissed her off (oh yeah, she ain't happy with me).

I think you had every right, indeed the responsibility, to tell W about the girls. It was the way you (described here that you) told her, including your hurt, anger, etc, that probably wasn't a good idea. But you get that, right? OT had a pretty good example of a nonemotional way to do that.

You've gotta detach, Puddle. Let him go. You're hanging on tightly. When I said earlier that it's like he feels trapped and needs to run.

My brain must have been mulling this over, because I really wasn't seeing it. I thought, gee, I let him be, he does what he wants (except for, you know), etc etc. But what I've finally understood---and I think I'm right, that H would agree---is this: While I've been thinking, you want to move out? Fine, move out. I won't ask you to but I won't stop you; H has been thinking he wants to move out, has told me he thinks it's time, and HE'S WAITING FOR ME to tell him I understand and, this is important, AGREE, it's okay, and let's figure out what we need to do.

So Heim, I think you're right. Right now H feels like I have him trapped. He's trying to "do the right thing," work this out together, and I'm just sitting here waiting for him to do what he wants. He's trying to be a stand-up guy, and the fact that I'm not telling him what he wants to hear is making him feel trapped and probably resentful.

So this will have an effect on how I approach talking to him. I feel like I'll gladly discuss logistics and all those things, even though I disagree with what he's doing. He's waiting for me to agree so we can discuss these things.

So back to the email I have in draft. I say: I can accept that the marriage is over and support you in what you want to do while disagreeing with the course you're taking.

What do you think? Does my new insight change any of this?

Also, re the question of what I want. Maybe I shouldn't say anything about him staying in the house, because he clearly doesn't want to. I'm reminded of many R conversations we've had in the past, pre-bomb, where I said, "I want you to WANT to..." Still true, and moot.

Maybe just, "When you decide to move out, I want..." ?

Sorry, but an active father should be fighting to see his kids as often as possible (sorry, personal bias there).

Yeah, I'm a little confused about this. I've always considered him an active father, but right now I have the sense that he's distancing himself from the kids, too. And I think he's concentrating only on me and "what [I] can handle," as he says, re seeing the kids. I wonder what he'd say if I said, "I don't want you to see them, ever. I can't handle it." I'd never do that, of course, but I'd be curious how he'd react.

Has he given you ANY real reason why this connection he's searching for can't be found with you?

He says he's never felt it except in brief flashes throughout the years, so it's not there, period. And considering his definition of connection---"it's just there"---this has a certain kind of logic. Again, my disagreement is moot.

We came together as friends, got along really well, were wonderful partners, and decided to marry. Now he says he can feel so much more (for someone else), and wants to find that out there. That's pretty much it.

Last thought, I'm not sure him moving out is a bad thing. Is he still sleeping with one of your kids? If so, he needs his own space -- couch maybe. I generally think that staying in the same house is best, but if you're starting to feel contempt . . .

He's sleeping in one of the kid's beds and the kids are sleeping with me (we all slept in the big bed before, so he's the only one who's moved). We don't have a couch.

I think he very much wants to move out. Even if we had a guest room, I think he'd be feeling the same way. He's anxious to start his new life, and with my restrictions, couldn't even do that from a guest house.

And considering how standoffish and downright unpleasant he is to be around right now, I'd feel relief if he were gone. Tired of hearing the cursing at ever little thing and seeing him trying to be invisible.

And, hey, that's cool that your BIL says that you'll be snapped up. He's trying to boost you; let him. That's OK, even if you don't want that at the moment.

Yeah, I appreciate his confidence. The idea of dating is really, really scary. I don't go there often.

Desk now has several identifiable piles, which, sadly, is progress.

Well done!

Last night I went out with an old, not very close friend, whom I really like and haven't seen in ages. I told her about the sitch---first not very close person I've told. I decided to tell her because I'm reaching out to friends to spend time with, and I figured if she knew what's going on, she might be more understanding about me wanting to spend time together.

It was awkward, as I expected, but we had a great time and have lined up a couple things to do in the future. And I got another offer to beat up H!

Thanks, everyone. I'll look forward to your thoughts on how to respond to H.

Take care.