Yes, Terrence Real and some of the others I've read this summer echo O' Connor, who is channelingJung.
Good for you for keeping the door open but recognizing that you are only in control of yourself. I'm in the same position. Not giving up, though it is getting harder to see a way to a better marriage with her, but I recognize that she will make her decisions and I will make mine. Our happiness does not depend upon our wives or anyone else. We are responsible for our own well being and happiness. Once you realize that, life does become a bit easier.
Yesterday while paying bills at home I noticed that she keeps "taking over" space in the house by shoving my stuff into boxes and into certain rooms. This used to bother me when she started it earlier this summer. Now, it doesn't. I've concluded that the only words that matter are "I want a divorce" or "Let's try to work on this together." I'm not going to analyze any words or actions short of those. All I was doing was projecting my own fears/wishes into a situation.
Bruce Would you consider talking to your W in a loving way to find out where she stands? I know everybody's sitch is different and you have to decide on your own course, but do you think its worthwhile in your case to let her know where you stand without begging or pleading? Just curious.
Thanks for your post. I struggle with this issue all the time. I have given her all kinds of space, which she asked for and all the books say is essential for us LBS to do. Every once in a while I'll gently say in an email that I am willing to talk anytime she'd like. Two weeks ago I told her that in an email that informed her of my move to the new apartment. I wanted her to know that the move was not a sign that I'm running out on the relationship.
I just make it a couple of lines in an email that deals with other issues. No begging or pleading, no "I can't live without you" or "How can you do this to me?" I just state my willingness to work on creating a new marriage. I also acknowledge that I'm still willing to give her time and space if that's what she needs. All I get from her is "thanks for your email." Given that there are other issues discussed in the email, I really don't have a clue what she's thanking me for. Everything I read says I can't pull her out of her crisis; she has to come out on her own. Either I'll be there when she does, or I won't. That decision is mine. For now, I'm willing to wait.
I wonder if I'm being courageous and patient, or a fool. I'm still standing for the marriage and standing behind my vows, but it does get awfully hard some days. Overall I'm in a good place emotionally about myself but I vacillate on whether I'm doing the right thing in the relationship. I love her, and still believe we can be wonderful for each other if each of us is willing to work at it. In effect, I've told her that I'm willing to show up for duty. I don't know where that would lead; maybe I'll decide she can't give me what I need. Still, my feeling today is that I want to give it all I have.
Michele is so right in saying that we must really exhaust all possibilities to save the relationship. I feel my WAW feels she's done everything and I was hopeless. I had/have my faults, to be sure, but all this reading has convinced me that she didn't really try all approaches. I needed other approaches to draw me out of my problems, and I needed to take a different approach to her. Right now, though, I feel she's working on her own MLC identity issues more than reading about how to improve relationship dynamics. That's a guess, however. I will only be emotionally happy with myself if I know I've really attempted to save the relationship. If it ends, then I'll be at peace with my efforts and move on. Love, though, demands passing through the fire.
She has never mentioned that she wants a divorce, but she doesn't even hint at a willingness to sit down and talk about the tough stuff. She is a stone wall of silence on the important stuff.
I'm leery of imposing a conversation deadline or anything else that looks like "We must talk now." All the literature talks about how that will only make WAW run the other way faster. Perhaps I will get to that point where I will say we must talk so that I can make a decision about whether I want to go ahead with my life without her. I am still willing to wait, but obviously we all have our limits. I just take it day by day. Can't say if I'll be at that "fish our cut bait" point two weeks from now, two months from now, or who knows when. I'm really focusing on "living the moment" and being fully present where I am right now. I'm not living in the past by longing for the good times we shared or resenting past hurts. I'm not living in the future either, for I don't know what that brings. I live right now.
Take care, and make it a good day for you, your kids, and others.
Bruce ok, you have satisfied my curiosity. Reading your post, I am convinced you are on the right path. looks like your W has to work out her MLC issues behind her stone cold wall of silence while you have decided to work on yourself to make it a better journey for yourself, with or without her. Hats off to you!
once again, our situations are very similar, except the kids and my W's decision to engage in EAs and PAs behind the wall of silence. When we separated in May, or should I say when she packed and left, I was of the idea that we were giving each other space to figure things out. And space I gave. She never invited me to her place nor did she give me any whereabouts of her intention with our R. So far so good, as I embarked upon self-introspection, reading and on a pathway to personal recovery. Little did I know that my W was already on the pathway of detachment for the last couple of years. It was also apparent that the reason she packed up and left was to pursue other relationships and MLC frolic. Still continued to give her space until I came to the point of protecting my 2 DD's emotional health from being exposed to her OMs. I never asked for 'we must talk now', but all I gave her space and a friendly warning that my kids are my number one priority and should be hers too. as you can imagine a MLCer won't like to be disciplined and she continued anyway. I struggled and struggled within myself and finally wrote a letter to her in my last attempt to save me and the kids. You will find my letter and response here if you haven't read it already. This is what prompted me to take legal action.
I think you are in a better position with your sitch and I commend you for doing whatever it takes to save your M. Thats the only way we can feel better about ourselves and will give us the healing touch to move forward with your life journey.
In the meantime, I am on a After the After the LRT. I am far from giving up.
That was a beautiful letter you wrote your wife. I commend you for it.
I'm having a rough day today. Went by the house and noticed she took some of my stuff out of the dresser and put it in a plastic box in the junk room. She wanted to make more space for herself. She also took down a framed work of cross-stitching that someone gave us for our wedding--a lot of words on love and marriage. It used to hang in the bathroom; it now is on the floor in the junk room.
I love my wife and believe we might be good for each other given the work we are each doing, but today I am skeptical about whether continuing this marriage is a good idea.
I saw her for five minutes last night when I dropped off the dog crates. We were pleasant with each other--she gave me two different samples of some new recipes she made. What the hell does that mean?????? I shouldn't even ask that question, because I don't know the answer.
I'm at a point where I'm really considering detaching even further. I have not begged, pleaded, or asked for a timetable. I have signaled several times that I am ready to work on creating a new marriage, but that I also respect her wish for space. All I get is "thanks for your email," whatever that means. She seems to like the flowers I bring every couple of weeks. I drop off flowers without a note or anything heavy. She even thanked me for them a couple of weeks ago. Still, I feel like I don't know what to make of the fact that she has kept the flowers I dropped off Monday.
Maybe I need to just really detach even further. We have minimal contact now, but tonight I'm wondering if she thinks I'll always be here for her and so why not enjoy her "freedom?" She doesn't sign any emails "Love, " Earlier this summer she would sometimes do so, but lately no such signatures.
So, I'm wondering if she really has decided she wants out, or if that conclusion reflects more of my fears than anything else. This is so damn hard!
Not a good day. I'm still immensely positive about the changes I've made for myself, but increasingly skeptical about whether this marriage is going to survive.
Yesterday Dr. Robin Smith, who has educated me about so much, told one of her callers to concentrate on giving your love to people who will accept it, and that there are lots of people ready to accept what you have to give. I find myself agreeing with that today. Wife doesn't want what I have to offer, doesn't even want to ask what I have to offer, so I find myself wondering if my patience is courageous or foolish. Another day on the roller coaster, with today being a downer!
Thanks for your repeated postings. I value your input, and I appreciate hearing your story. Let's keep in touch on these boards. I find it immensely helpful.
Hi Bruce, I'm looking for a guy's opinion. Would you mind checking out my post under infidelity and then intimacy/skotslady?
LuvMyHusband Me: 41 H: 43 ch: 3 M: 7+ T: 10+ Bomb: EA 8/07, A over phone/net 10/07 Seperated: 9/07 H ended A/EA with OW again on 1/2008 Reconsile: 3/26/2008, H admitted PA
I'm sorry for being clueless, but where is your thread? I'm having trouble finding it. Still pretty new at this stuff! I'm happy to offer my input, whatever it may be worth, once I find your story. Thanks, and take care.
Bruce I wish I could be there with you to talk it out. I am sad to hear that you are having a rough day on the roller coaster. But tomorrow is a better day and you will feel much better, guaranteed! Just keep the faith in yourself and keep doing what you are doing. Here is my 2 cents, if you are feeling that you need to detach more, you haven't detached. I have come to realize that detaching is so much about your attitude. Please go back and read all the advice from the veterans on this forum one more time while you are recovering from your introspection. Just remember that she is doing everything she can to bring out the worst in you - don't give her a chance. You know within yourself that you are better than that. You know you love her and you show her that with your actions - the flowers and the email and your disposition. Have the strength in yourself and get busy on doing something fun for yourself today and tomorrow. This is your time to indulge while you lovingly detach and move forward.
Are you still following the baseball post-season? Are you planning on a new retreat? What about some shopping for yourself? have you checked out the new 2008 cars?
Thanks for your words of encouragement. They helped; I'm feeling better today.
Yes, several fun things are on the horizon. I'm excited about the move to the new apartment next week. I've already purchased some new things for it, and will start shopping more once I sign the lease. My monastic life is over! Time to surround myself with some beauty, time to get creative, to bring out a side of me that I haven't shown much of. My wife is a wonderful decorator, and she taught me some things about where to shop, etc. Time to apply those lessons in my own way.
I'm going to a couple of concerts in November; going to visit my cousin and her husband in Maine in two weeks, and have signed up for a meditation retreat in California in early January. As soon as I saw news of the retreat, I knew I had to be there. Meditation and eastern philosophy is something I am eager to learn more about as I journey inward. I've read some works in that area and have tried some basic meditations. I've signed up for a walk to benefit the American Heart Association, and I'm looking into other volunteer activities as well.
So, I'm not sitting around feeling sorry! Yesterday was rough, but that is to be expected on this ride. I'm not giving up on the marriage, but there are days when I feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall and wonder why I continue to do so. Then I tell myself that everything she's doing is textbook--none of it surprises me, though some days it hurts a lot.
I am really weighing with even greater detachment--no more flowers, no more "love" in the email signatures. Part of me is scared, though, that if I pull back even further there's nothing left. Part of me also thinks however, that she may be assuming that I'll always be there, so she ought to have her fun. Hard to know what to do some days.
Make it a good day, and keep posting. I find this immensely helpful. Thanks.
Hey Bruce Whats up? Its a wonderful day here and I am stoked up about life. Its great to hear about your plans for the meditation retreat and the walk. I have never been into organized meditation class, but being from the east I have been well versed in how to connect with your inner self. I have gone back to doing yoga since the sitch started and it has been tremendous. I also try to walk in the morning whenever I get a chance. Its hard to find a window of time when the kids are home.
yesterday I took my 2 DDs to a circus in town. It was great fun! I hope it was not too rude to invite my W to go with us (I purchased the tickets online quite sometime ago), but I want her to miss what we did as a family.
I helped someone sort out feelings about divorce vs DB on an online chat. It felt good. Its nice to meet someone with similar values and feelings about marriage and fidelity in relationship, especially when everyone around you feels the opposite.
I am planning on doing something different and fun this weekend. salsa dancing? tai chi? painting? model train? so many choices!
