I like you. You are a very positive upbeat kinda guy. I have done ALL the communication you describe at one time or the other with the possible exception of "demanding". I do say ouch, harder, faster, to the left, or why don't we try .... I get the answer "I'm more comfortable this way" or no answer at all. When we dated H went down on me like...maybe three times. I have done the "sneak attack 69 before and since the time I directly asked for oral and he acted like he didn't hear. I have done all of that and for my efforts have been given oral from my H less than 10 total times (no, personal hygeine is not an issue).
Here's the thing C'mon - H is a 40 something businessman who has certainly viewed his share of porn, popular culture etc... That means he knows some things like:
* It is rude to not respond at all to a sexual request even if that response is "Later". * It is sexually selfish to allow a ratio of say 100 times of being "done" to maybe one of "doing" the other person orally. * It is not within the average of marital sexuality to have sex once/month as an average and often to go longer than that. * It does not jive when you tell your W that she is a great wife, attractive etc... and then not to do anything about it.
And Cac,
Yes, I am sexually attractive. How do I know? I know because I do keep myself slim and put together and other men notice. I'm not gonna do anything about that but it is time that I quit volunteering for crap sex.
I get the answer "I'm more comfortable this way" or no answer at all. ...
I was going to write an item-by-item reply.. but I think this might be a summary of your relationship dynamic. This is one of the primary ways your relationship with him functions.. and it's a problem. The thing is; you have the power to change it. if you are more assertive
The problem that I see here is; He's gotten trained that anything he doesnt want to do, he can just pretend it doesnt exist... and you let him
From an objective point of view; yes he's treating you rudely. However, by your actions, or lack thereof, you have given him "permission" to treat you that way. Which, to a twisted point of view,makes it no longer rude any more.
Most people dont put up with being treated rudely. If you condone a certain behaviour from him by accepting it... you have essentially "told" him, that it is ok.
You have to stop letting him get away with the "pretend he doesnt hear you" garbage. If you're in the middle of sex... and you ask him for some '9' for your '6'... and he doesnt respond... then you STOP! and talk to him: "Does what I'm doing feel good to you?" (if he refuses to respond, then stop completely, and walk away) "I want to feel good too. So how about it? (if he refuses to respond, then stop completely) (if he indicates 'no',then maybe do something else.. if you feel generous)
I think you gotta go to the "demanding" level with your husband. Or at least, "insistent".
I think that you could have so much more out of your marriage, if you change yourself that way. and it would be a positive thing for both of you.
Quote:
It does not jive when you tell your W that she is a great wife, attractive etc... and then not to do anything about it.
This is the one thing that didnt mesh with all the rest. it's kinda wierd. it probably means he has 'issues'. but you dont have to 'fix' him. you DO have a responsability to not check out of your marriage.
If you try to "stand up for yourself", by "not volunteering for crap sex"... then you're not going to have any sex. Whichwill eventually lead you to check out of your marriage, given enough time. [besides,thats not "standing up", that's more like "sitting down"! :)]
If, on the other hand, you "stand up for yourself", by directly confronting your husband about your needs, and not letting him weasle out.... you will eventually get your needs fulfilled from him. You just have to be very careful that you are asking for appropriate needs to be filled, and in a reasonable way.
PS: it doesnt matter diddly what the "average of marital sexuality" is. What matters, is what you need, and whether your husband is meeting your needs as best as he can. If he isnt.. the best thing to do for your marriage, is to confront him about it, not silently give up on yourself and your marriage.
Last edited by Dom R; 10/02/0704:41 PM.
My current status: june 2006. Wife ran out and filed D. Finalized Jan 11, 2010, after 12.5 years M. 3 wonderful sons caught in the middle
Karen, Several posts ago Corri said that your H reminded her of Honeypot's H, and in a way, she's right. Both you and she were the " wow" girls for your H's...until some version of reality crept in and created disillusionment. HP's H turned to God; my guess is that your H has turned to himself.
She was successful by repeatedly confronting her H in a clear, direct way. I do think that this is what it takes to get through, and I am wondering why you're not going there. Are you afraid you will be seen as demanding? Do you fear ruffling H's feathers too much? What do you think will happen?
Not answering you is not just rude, it's manipulative and controlling. I think you need to get more " inyerface" about the whole thing.
Yes, I am sexually attractive. How do I know? I know because I do keep myself slim and put together and other men notice. I'm not gonna do anything about that but it is time that I quit volunteering for crap sex.
oh, geez, I'm sorry. I didn't mean it like that. I was talking about ME! and how I would answer those same questions, about myself. Which...actually, makes a lot more sense than your sitch, (which is why recently, everyone was concluding, "well...he must be gay, then"). but even so, one is still left with the same "throwing yourself against a brick wall" feeling, whether your spouse's lack of attraction is logical or not. While the "not initiating for extended periods" doesn't fix anything, at least it keeps you out of the looney bin.
does that make more sense?
-Chuck who is still trying to paint a picture in his mind of what a "sneak-attack 69" looks like....
Cac, I agree with you. I think I've essentially "checked out of my M too", and if I examine the reasons it leads me to that banging against a brick wall feeling. That and feeling like I was coercing her to do things she preferred not to. For example, as much as I love "going down", she no longer lets me do it. By disengaging, I've been able to focus more on myself, and specifically what about me I need to work on. At least I am feeling happier than I have in a long time, and that's something. Makes it hard to find the motivation to re-engage though.
Awww Cac, It is actually a good thing that I took it the way I did and stood up for myself. It has taken a long time for me to get here in the face of my sexual history. I did not consider myself sexually attractive for years.
Dom,
This was an excellent post and again you are an optimist. I can directly request, confront and etc... and as Schnarch would tell you I may still not get it - he calls it "normal marital sadism" and I don't think we understand enough about marriage to accept the reality that many of our spouses know exactly what we need or want and they purposely don't provide it - it can be a conscious or unconscious rebellion but all the same - they still don't provide it or even attempt to. HP's husband is a perfect example - he knew what she wanted and still he went about not providing it. My H knows too and yet........ What is the worst that will happen if I get more direct and confrontational? Well, then we will be unhappy AND won't be having sex. KWIM?? We will stop being civil, otherwise engaged, happy with one another as parents and instead be in a veiled or not so veiled war about sex which will spill over into the functional areas and make us not functional anywhere. As much as it sucks not to be having sex - that sucks worse!
Having said that - I did buy a copy of Radical Honesty and a copy of Boundaries in Marriage. We'll see if I can screw up my courage by doing some bibliotherapy. Baby is sick and I haven't slept in two days. I am awfully exhausted and H has a dinner meeting tonight. Welcome to the nightmare that is my life.
For a visual on the sneak attack 69 picture a silent hovercraft with the ability to hover at low altitudes for long periods of time. Perhaps alien in origin. What's that? I didn't hear it but there it is hovering within visual range.......Call for back up! I've been hit!............
For a visual on the sneak attack 69 picture a silent hovercraft with the ability to hover at low altitudes for long periods of time. Perhaps alien in origin. What's that? I didn't hear it but there it is hovering within visual range.......Call for back up! I've been hit!............
Karen (waaaaaaaay too little sleep)
Ohhhhh man your killing me !! It's been waaaaay tooooooo long since I've had the visual of one of my wife's sneak attacks 69's. But it's that visual that keeps me pressing on
Karen, I don't know what to say. I like Dom's advice but I see your POV and that is where I'm at as well. ((((((( Karen ))))))
For a visual on the sneak attack 69 picture a silent hovercraft with the ability to hover at low altitudes for long periods of time. Perhaps alien in origin. What's that? I didn't hear it but there it is hovering within visual range.......Call for back up! I've been hit!............
LOL and my keyboard is OK.
69's here never got past the first rough sketch.
Karen (waaaaaaaay too little sleep) Tell Mr. K1, you sleep better after a good "O".
