muddled and angry: Puddle's sencond thread

[S.T. _I Made It!]

You know what. I think you should tell your H that your not going to lie to the kids. If your kids ask specifically if you wanted him to leave, you'll tell them no. But You have no idea what will happen in the future, you can only work on the present and you are committed to being the best mother that you can be.

What is so bad with crying? Your kids need to see you have emotions and that you CAN be sad. it's OKAY if you are really feeling that. it's not a bad thing to feel pain. It's what you do with that afterwards that's good or bad. Your kids are going to learn how you deal with this sitch and it will sit in their minds for when they may have to deal with their own sitch.

That's just my opinion. I'm sure people will be totally against it, but I think if my mom had lied to me about it, I'd be more upset. although I WAS 14 when it happened to me, but mentally I was much younger, very naive.

I don't know. it's a really tough decision. I would say it might be better to talk to each of them seperately also. the 4 year old really doesn't need to know a lot, but the 7 year old is going to have a lot of questions I'm sure.

I can tell you that putting blame on your H or accusing him of doing things is not healthful for them. My mom did eventually tell me that my dad had an A, and we didn't have that close of a R anyways, but I was mad at my dad for doing what he did.

Even if you state that it is your Hs decision to leave you can still emphasize what a good dad he is and he will continue to be a good dad and that they are very important to him. And then when your H does good things as a father, praise him for it in front of the kids, or to the kids alone. You can tell them you wish that they could work things out, but sometimes a person isn't able to do this and they need to leave the marriage.

The only problem with this I see is that M is suppose to be for life. I did not want my kids thinking that it was "okay" for my H to leave. As a christian, it's totally wrong. So I did tell my 8 year old that when you M, it is suppose to be for life. However, I can't make your dad be married to me and he is struggling with the M and he thinks the only way to fix it is by leaving. I can only pray and be the best person I can be and ask God to let my H have the desire to work on our M. But whatever happens we will all be okay and we as parents will always take care of you and love you and be there for you no matter what.

hope your day is better today.

[Nomopo]

You can talk to your kids without lying AND without putting them in a position where they will blame either of you. You can also say things like "I don't know" and "let me think about your question" and "its complicated" and "its an adult problem" and etc, etc, etc. I struggled with this a lot, but after reading and consulting experts I am convinced its in your kids best interest to not be given an "opportunity" to blame either parent.

Crying is fine. Its ok to tell the kids your sad. But should also reassure them that you will all be fine.

Hope it helps.

Nomo

PS - as for the talk with H, do lots of listening. Gather info. If your not sure of your response, don't respond right away.

[Puddle]

Hey everyone,

Thanks for your thoughts. Nomo, how can I be honest with them and not put them in a position where they'll blame one of us? Are you talking about something along the lines of what CVA said?

CVA, it'd be hard for me to say "we can't live together right now." I feel like I can. If H were seeing someone and not respecting my request to keep it out of the house, that would be true. But right now it's not.

This just from H re talking to the kids: "The biggest challenge seems to avoid the blame game, and I realize that this may not be easy for you. S*** - none of this will be easy. But when I do move out, I want that to be a mutual adult decision.

I don't envision a big sit-down with the kids, either. I can see a very casual conversation about this, that you and I decided to live in different places."

See, this isn't a mutual decision, and I haven't decided to live in a different place from him. This smacks of his "we're not there yet," meaning I'm not there yet. And I'm still not. So anything I say to the kids like "mommy and daddy can't live together right now" feels very, very false to me.

He seems to think that the impact on the kids will be minimal, and that it's all in how we tell them. I know how we tell them is important, but holy moly, this p**es me off!

And he also said he's not interested in splitting finances, just figuring out what we can afford short- to midterm. He says he'd like "us to talk to a D lawyer," which sounds like a bad idea. Anyone ever go WITH the WAS to talk to a lawyer? Maybe I'm just being paranoid.

He says it's easier for him to email me his thoughts. It often is for me to write, too, but I hesitate to write back right away. He said tonight can be mellow, we don't have to discuss all this. We'll see. But the 48-hour rule leaves a lot of time, makes the conversation take forever, so I'm not sure that'll work here either.

Thanks again, all. Take care.

[new_attitude]

Hi Puddle!
I can forward you Nomo's email, if you give me your email address.

[Puddle]

Thanks, NA. [e-mail]

Take care.

[Scottymack]

Puddle, I have been reading your thread and I understand your sitch about what to tell the kids. My kids S 18, D 20 and both in college. The week before we took my S to college, I asked my W when we were going to tell both of them. She said that she told them 2 weeks before. I hit the roof and told her that she had no ****ing right to tell them without me. She told them that Dad and I are getting divorced. Well I talked to my S and told him the truth, and wanted my W to be there, and she said no. Believe me, it doesn't matter what age your kids are, they will be affected.
My son doesn't want to come home now because of what is going on. My W says that she doesn't want to involve them, but even the counselor said that she wasn't thinking straight.
My D is still living at home and I havn't talked to her about it because I don't want her schooling to be affected.
Unfortunately the WAS only thinks of themselves and don't realize that they are affecting every one else.
I can't imagine what my S is going thru--first time away from home in a new place with strangers, and his mom wants to walk away. Funny thing though, kids are very smart at any age, he told me that mom is acting on emotion and not being rational. I think he could be a good therapist!
Chin up, just be good to your kids and try not to involve them in your troubles. I know it is hard, but you may want to explain that mom and dad need to work things out, but that each of you want the best for them and will be there for them when they need you.

[Puddle]

Thanks, Scottymack! I know this must be hard for kids of any age. I can't believe your W told them without you. It's staggering how self-involved they can be. Wow.

H and I went out last night, and I made some DBing mistakes, but honestly, not much I regret (yet). We talked a bit about money, and I mentioned that I'm not sure this is the best time to remodel the house. When he asked why, I realized I wasn't ready to talk about that stuff because it has to do with money down the line, like, "If you decide to stop supporting me [beyond the legal requirement] we'll have to sell and probably won't recup that money." So I backed off there.

He did say that's why he wants US to talk to a lawyer, "Unless you want to make it ugly and get your own lawyer to come after me." Ugh. That felt very threatening, and I didn't really respond.

I asked him what's making him feel uncomfortable living in the house, and he looked surprised, said he hadn't really thought about why, it just seemed obvious. Said he'd feel uncomfortable bringing his (male) friend over, and I clarified that I wouldn't have a problem with that. Said I don't feel uncomfortable having my friends over. He said he got that that was okay with me, but again, couldn't say what makes him uncomfortable.

We talked about telling the kids, and I told him I want to be honest with them and that it's not a mutual decision since I don't want him to move out. He said, "Okay, what if I'm dating someone and want to bring them over? Do you still want me to stay then?" Damn! So I had to say no, that would change things.

He said he's agreed to live by my "restrictions" for now, but he won't want to much longer. So I guess that helps, in a way, because then I can honestly say to the kids, "We can't live together." Is that a good thing? I don't know.

Re the restrictions, I said something like, "This is OUR house, not yours or mine. If we were both done, that would be one thing. We'd be roommates. We're not roommates, though; right now, of course, we are, but the house is ours based on being a couple, not roommates. You've changed that, but having women over would feel like a complete violation." He said, "Sure."

I also told him that while I agree that how the kids deal with this has a lot to do with how we deal with it, I think I feel like it's going to be a much bigger deal than he does. He says he's not downplaying it, just focusing on the how (because for him this is a done deal, so no point in hand-wringing over it, right? Argh). Again, something I really didn't need to say to him.

Then, I think while we were talking about the "restrictions," etc, I told him I'm angry with him. Said something like, "I'm angry that I based all my major life decisions---getting married, having kids, quitting my job---on a decision you made when you were so f***ed up you shouldn't have been making decisions at all. Part of me is happy for you that you're 'back in touch with yourself,' but part of me is angry that you had your head so far up your a** for so long and now that it's out, you're done with me."

Note to self: gimlets + R talk = bad idea.

He said with a smirk, "So you're saying that you're p**sed off because this isn't how you imagined things would be, that I'm cramping your style?"

I was agog. Just looked at him. Looked away trying to gather my thoughts, which at that moment ran along the lines of "You SOB, who the hell are you?" Said, "No, that's not what I'm saying."

Before I could think of a response, he said quietly, "No, that's not what you're saying. I see that."

Perhaps not right here in the convo but sometime he said something about "Unless you're sitting around waiting for me to change my mind..." I said, "Look, I know you're done. Feelings change---yours have changed, mine have changed, and who knows how we'll feel about each other in a year. If your feelings don't change, mine will. I'm not there yet, and I'll get there when I do."

That was pretty much the end of the convo, and we left the restaurant, took a (quiet) walk, got some coffee and walked some more. Chitchatted about this and that, laughed a bit, went home and watched a really, really stupid funny movie together.

So I'm not sure where we are with the "time to talk moving out." We didn't get too far.

Okay, folks, swing those 2x4s. Again, I'm not feeling too bad about what I said, though I could've said it more calmly, and I chose some aggressive words. I think this has something to do with really getting that he's totally done and me focusing on the impending splitting (of households and finances) instead of thinking about working on me and DBing hoping he'll come back. I'm not feeling a lot of desire to have him come back right now.

Ugh. Help.

[Nomopo]

Awww Puddle. You done good. No 2x4's. Just big hugs.

(((((Puddle)))))

Nomo

[Puddle]

Thanks Nomo. Really, no 2x4s? I'm feeling a bit frustrated with myself. I can see what everyone else needs to do so clearly, and here I am sticking my foot in it. I have to figure out how to combine being more open about my feelings with waaaaaaaaay more GALing. Too focused on H right now.

I do appreciate the hugs, though. I can certainly use them! (Especially from you, Nomo, after the ribbing I gave you on the winter event string. )

[Nomopo]

Puddle,

It takes time to get the focus off your WAS and really on GALing. It will happen. You're doing well. It just doesn't feel like it.

Nomo

PS-what winter event thread?