muddled and angry: Puddle's sencond thread

[S.T. _I Made It!]

hey, I think at some point we all go thru these kinds of stages. Some more than others. I don't think it means we don't love our S enough. But remember, we are going thru a HUGE crisis, and our brain likes to take over in certain ways, whether it be putting up a wall, or getting angry, or depressed, or whatever.

You M your H for a reason, and love is not a feeling, it is an action. Feelings come and go, and you will definitely love your H sometimes and Hate your H sometimes, but that doesn't mean you stop loving them. You choose to love someone and sometimes the feelings go with it. The more you love someone (it is more an action of giving oneself to another) the more you will have feelings for them.

[new_attitude]

Now that I'm back, I've found that I just wish he were gone. Little things are bugging me---not putting food away, whatever---and I just feel like he's in my space, in a sense.

I know how you feel. My h has his own apt and when he's hanging out here, I sometimes feel like I wish he would just go. I mean, I don't get to go to his place and just hang out whenever I feel like it!

You did a good job at keeping calm during the plane delay. Good for you! You're making positive changes, and H may not see tha yet, but he will.

This tightrope walk, balancing having R talks with GALing and working on PMA is proving really tough for me.

Me too. Are you initiating the R talks? I know you are trying to show him that you can share more with him, but is there a way to do that w/out starting R talks? Talk about the kids, family or other emotional topics instead?

And while I can't make him feel emotional connection to me, if he is going to feel it, it's going to take some reaching out on my part. Damn.

If he's having an emotional connection with another woman, I'm not sure if this is the time for you to try to get him to have an emotional connection with you. I'm not sure if I'm saying this right, but try to change yourself FOR YOU. If you start developing emotional connections with others, it should spill into your other relationships, including w/H. I hope that makes sense.

[Puddle]

Thanks, ST and na, your words help and they do make sense.

Now here's a big HELP! (and perhaps a be careful what you wish for)

I just got an email from H saying he's uncomfortable feeling like a guest in his own home and it's time to talk about him moving out. He says "I can't tell what you think about this, but for me, moving out is part of the creating-the-life-I-want-idea. It sounds a bit scary to me, and I know it's the right thing to do.

My concerns are figuring out the money, figuring out the schedule, and telling the kids -- and I need your help/involvement with all of them."

Lordy. My stomach's in knots again, with a bit of a very welcome feeling of relief thrown in.

And re telling the kids: I want it to be clear to them that this is papa's choice and NOT what I want. But I want to do what's best for them, too. Anyone have words of wisdom re telling them (and what???)?

I need help, folks. This is going to be a hard conversation. Any and all advice desperately needed.

Thanks. Take care.

[Heimlich]

And re telling the kids: I want it to be clear to them that this is papa's choice and NOT what I want. But I want to do what's best for them, too. Anyone have words of wisdom re telling them (and what???)?

Puddle,

I totally understand and symphathize with your desire to place the blame on your H. However, that doesn't do your kids any good. Don't put them in the middle. That's putting them in the middle, IMO. Be direct, be honest, say something along the lines of mama and daddy aren't making each other happy. We love each other, but not like a mama and daddy should (can't remember how old your kids are, maybe just say H and W). This has nothing to do with you. M and D love you very, very much.

I'm not going to lie, this conversation is going to suck. My W didn't even have the guts to start it; I had to. Keep it short, keep it simple, don't place blame on each other, don't put them in the middle, show them all the love and support that you can. Try to have the visitation figured out in advance for if they ask, but for the initial conversation, don't think it's really necessary to give them the scheduling. They won't digest it anyway.

Good luck, Puddle.

BD

[Nomopo]

Hi Puddle. (((D)))

Traveling on business and on my BB, so more later this weekend but some quick thoughts.

First, agree 100% with H on not blaming anyone to the kids. They need both of you badly. For them, avoid having them blame anyone.

Second, I will email you (later) my detailed journal entry on how we told the kids. You can use it as a guide. We consulted with a child psychologist on it. I think my kids are about the same age as yours. (I sent it to N_A previously, so maybe she can send it to you before I get back home.)

Third, you should tell the kids only a few days before you implement the S. They shouldn't be able to worry about it happening for weeks. We told ours on a Sat, and it started on a Mon. We cleared the whole weekend so we could both be there for them and spend lots of time with them.

Hope it helps,
Nomo

[L21959]

Puddle --

Although i can't quote from it, I remember that Nomo's talk with his kids was really well done, so that should be a great resource for you.

When I had to deal with this 5+ years ago, younger S was 6, older 12. One of ways we couched it with S6 was to talk about it in terms of a time out for H and me (like what sometimes would happen with Ss), not able to get along and trying to figure out a way to make things work (which at that point I thought really was the case; although for young children it may not really matter what that truth is...) And at this point, they will not understand or care about any notion of who wants what...they will only want to be reassured that you will be there for them...

We took turns in our home, so this did not involve Ss moving from place to place...but I don't think that makes your initial message any different.

And there's no sugarcoating it Puddle (which i'm sure you already realize)... the way I felt about having to have this convo made any R convo with H seem like a day in the park...

Sending positive thoughts your way...

L

[Puddle]

Thanks so much, Heim, Nomo, and L! Yes, this is going to suck, Heim. I remember your description of your talk with the kids and it was gut-wrenching.

Funny you all talk about blame, and I hadn't even thought of it as blaming him. I was thinking I want them to know this is papa's choice (not me asking him to leave or anything), but I see what you're all saying. *They'll* blame him for wanting to leave. For them I guess there's no line between responsibility and blaming.

Nomo, I'd love to see what you wrote about your talk. And I appreciate the advice of telling them only when he's about to leave.

I was just folding his underwear and thinking, oh man, I can't believe it's come to this, and also thinking, yay! more closet space. I feel like I'm drunk or something (which wouldn't be unwelcome at the moment).

We're going out tomorrow night to talk about these things. About the financial stuff, I'm not sure exactly what he has in mind (does he want to discuss splitting finances?), so I think I'll ask first. I'm not prepared to talk about what kind of settlement I want. I'm also not sure he's talking D; I don't think he is, unless he's moved pretty far from his "I don't see any rush to dissolve the marriage" of a couple weeks ago. But if he's talking settlement, I guess I'll have to talk to a lawyer, and certainly before he and I discuss it.

You may recall he asked last week if I'd feel more comfortable with something in writing. I would, but my hesitation there stems from the fact that I'm not sure how far we could go without heading down the legal D path. We'll have to talk about that, too, I guess.

And NA, about whether or not I could share my feelings regarding something else instead of the R, that's a good point. I think talking about these things will bring up a lot, though I guess that's all mostly R stuff after all. I did try to talk to him about my dad (who's shuttling between hospital and nursing home, and, IMO, unlikely to emerge from one). He was supportive but not really emotionally involved there. I'll keep thinking about it.

It's weird---now that it's come to this, I feel like I'm pretty much ready (not prepared, though). I'm glad to have had this long (almost two months) to get there, and to be coming off a couple weeks away. I know he's completely done, and I think I've accepted that. I've always thought he'd never come back without leaving, and now I'm not even really holding out hope that he'll come back at all. It's a weird place to be (but I'm glad to have the company!).

Thanks again, everyone. If you have any more thoughts about the talk with the kids or the money angle---I have no idea what'll come up there---I'd be grateful to hear them.

And thanks for the support. I'm feeling generally like one very lucky woman.

[S.T. _I Made It!]

I'm sorry for the new sitch. Probably telling the kids as little as possible. Tell them right now you both are having problems in your relationship and dad is going to be living in a different place right now so that each of you can try to resolve what's happening. You don't know what is going to happen in the future, but to definitely understand that it has nothing to do with them and both of you love them deeply and will always be there for them.

It's probably all going to depend on their age. I told my 3 year old nothing except that he was staying at a friends, even when my H was gone half the time. My 8 year old, that was another story. H wasn't much a part of his first 4 years since we lived in seperate states, so it was easy for me to really let our feelings go and talk about what was happening. We would pray every night for his dad and I'm not sure that I did the right thing by telling him his dad wanted to leave me, but their R between each other hasn't changed. In fact, now that my H came back, he's been more a part of his life. Now had my H NOT come back, I'm not sure what would have happened then. It could have totally backfired, but I felt he was old enough to understand what was happening and deserved to know what was happening.

hope this helps just a little. I will pray tonight for God to give you the right words to say.

[Puddle]

Thanks, ST. I'm concerned about telling them (they're 4 and 7) that we need some time apart when H is totally convinced that he's done and not coming back. I know we don't know what will happen, but "we need some time apart" sounds like we're taking a break for a while, and I'm loathe to hear questions about when papa's coming home.

What do you guys think?

Also, I get the part about not telling them papa wants to leave, that it's his decision (instead of mutual), but what about the questions they may ask (or my oldest, at least)? What if he asks sometime whether I wanted papa to leave?

I guess I could say something noncommittal like, "I want papa to be happy," but that feels intentionally vague, and I want him to know I'll be honest with him.

Oh, gosh, this is going to be so hard. Someone on another thread said the only mistake they made when telling the kids was crying, but I'm not sure I can get through this dry-eyed.

Thanks. Take care.

[Not Much Left]

Puddle
FWIW, and no one is 100% right here. The greatest thing you could do here is take the high road, which means you just tell them you and Daddy are having issues that you need to work out and Daddy will not be home right now. All that is true yes? I dont think a 4 or 7 yr old really process much else. Remember, I have 4 of them, 5, 7, 9 and 11 so I hope I have some insight here. If you can stay away from blame and suck up the fact that he is a dickhead for doing this, I say do it this way.

C