We have had joint therapy. My H did an end run around the therapist quite handily. He would get her running off on tangents and she utterly refused to address sex as an issue except in a general way. She would get off track whenever frequency, schedule, or "Why don't you want to have sex with your W?" were brought up.
I know that my H mb to porn because he has stated quite clearly in the past that he believes mb and pornography viewing are "normal" even among married men and have nothing to do with the quality of the marital sex life. She, the therapist, agreed with this too. BTW- I agree with this too except when someone mb in order to avoid sex with their spouse. I also agree with this except when porn is viewed in an addictive way. Oh yeah - then my therapist had an affair and got a little unreliable and we quit seeing her.
I have no problem with alternatives to intercourse and have also mentioned this directly to my H in the past. No dice.
Lil,
I do think it is about me and I don't. I don't think it is a statement about me and my worthiness as a wife, sexual partner or person BUT I do think it is a statement of sorts about his feelings toward me. I like your restatement of his position because I think that is about right.
RJ,
I don't believe that H is having an affair but I cannot discount it in the realm of possibility. I just feel that there is something going on other than scheduling issues due to a pregnancy, birth and an infant in the house. I do have a breaking point and I do recognize that my sexual nature could be a problem if my needs continue going unmet - I do get looks, smiles, flirtations etc... Luckily, I work with mostly women and have zero free time to get in trouble with.
Last night I had an awful crick in my neck after working out and I asked H to rub it. He obliged while I settled DS 5 months who was having a hard time going to sleep. In the meantime, DS 15 wanted to discuss his plan to get a job and DD 3 came downstairs to cuddle with Daddy after a bad dream. H commented "Well, there it was, your 5 minutes of Mom/Dad time."
I can almost bet that if confronted he will not admit to anything going on other than kids needs, job needs and general tiredness. I call BS on that. It takes what 30 min to have sex with quite a few bells and whistles? Any night he is interested he could come to bed when the baby goes down (baby goes down about 8 and gets up to eat again at 11) or any night I come home from work he could hand baby off to the big kids and say "Mom and I are going to run to bedroom and have a talk - be back shortly". Whatever. I'm game.
The problem is that he doesn't look for these solutions, doesn't verbalize any frustration and has never once said, "When are we gonna let that baby cry it out so we can have sex?". These would be actions of someone who gives a crap. Someone who doesn't have their needs being met somewhere else or alternatively having their needs short circuited by an issue of some kind. An affair is only one of about a dozen possibilities. But I don't believe that it is just schedule, new baby etc...
Lil, I do think it is about me and I don't. I don't think it is a statement about me and my worthiness as a wife, sexual partner or person BUT I do think it is a statement of sorts about his feelings toward me. I like your restatement of his position because I think that is about right.
Well, clearly since you are there, he is relating (or not) to you... but do you imagine that if he were married to someone else, he would want sex and initiate it? Or that if somehow YOU were different in some undetermined way that it would turn on his sexual interest?
IOW do you believe that his lack of interest is due to you and your "karen-ness," or that he would likely be sexually uninterested with any other attractive wife, too?
I have two "other" scenarios for him that make sense to me. In one scenario he is hooked up to an LDW and they are happy as can be. He keeps his sexual issues and she keeps hers and they find an agreed upon level to live with. I could almost do this except for my karen-ness.
In another scenario he hooks up with someone who is a sexual psychic and knows how to hit the buttons that I just can't find and they have sex at a rate that at least approaches the national average.
Number one is the more likely scenario although even in #1 there would probably be an interlude of higher frequency due to the newness factor. If there is a third party involved in this R then it is someone who strikes his sexual or emotional buttons in places that I don't. My Karen-ness is what it is - it means that I resonate in a certain way and someone else does so in another. KWIM?
The thing is, if he had a drive to have sex, he would have been looking for partner like the one in your second scenario ever since he hit puberty. He doesn't seem motivated to find such a partner, or to allow you to be that partner.
There is the Mr. Spock fantasy... where the guy is completely shut down sexually until he finds the One Woman who has the key to unlock his hidden Sexual Being. I saw myself in that fantasy when I was younger (maybe even now...). I'm the one woman in the universe who can melt the Ice Prince. Kind of like the reverse of the Sleeping Beauty fantasy.
Is this how you see scenario two? That one day he stumbles upon the Ice Breaker Woman at a conference... and she has the right combination of traits, tricks, and treats to light his fire?
I suppose that's p-o-s-s-i-b-l-e, but that would presuppose that he was open to it, right? Although the times that Spock gave into sexual/romantic feelings were times when his Vulcan reserve was overcome, once by pollen from a flower, and once by time travel.
We have had joint therapy. ... she utterly refused to address sex as an issue except in a general way. [and then she later had an affair]
Oookay... sounds like you basically had a useless, incompetant therapist, then. I'm sorry There are actually useful ones out there, though.
Quote:
DS 15 wanted to discuss his plan to get a job and DD 3 came downstairs to cuddle with Daddy after a bad dream. H commented "Well, there it was, your 5 minutes of Mom/Dad time." [...]
The problem is that he doesn't look for these solutions,
Maybe he thinks that, as the mother, it's "your job" to choose how to deal with this stuff.
There are a few different possibilities that I see as potentially at work here. I think it depends on how he made that comment. I also think that you might not be in the best objective frame of mind to judge which one it was, so be careful when reading the following.
He might have meant it as "There, i've done my duty for today" Or he might have meant it as "I'd like to do more but our children get in the way as usual". The thing that makes it ambiguous, is that he didnt say, "there goes OUR mom/dad time". he said "your".
The two possible interpretations i can think of, might come from some of the following possible internal states for him:
[for the "done my duty" bit: ]He's detaching from your marriage, because he feels powerless to have a real marriage with you, in the face of the demands of your children. Kinda like a "walk away husband" mentality. ie: "Home is a mess, and I cant do anything about it, so I'm going to choose to throw myself into my work instead. that's something I CAN do good at".
Or, for the more benign positive interpretation: He still WANTS more connection with you, but has given up trying, because he's (feeling) powerless.
That extra history info, about him ALWAYS being passive in sex, is... umm.. disturbing, though. From that, I would jump to the conclusion that you have about a snowballs chance in Hxxx of him EVER initiating sex, and you were crazy to go on your protest "strike" in the first place
Sounds like you have a pathelogically timid, submissive man on your hands... and you married him, so you have to deal with him and adjust to it :-/
My guess is that:
- You will probably have to be the one responsible for making sure the children do not dominate your lives all the time. Your comments griping about him not taking any action, are unhappiness from an unmet expectation that HE is the one supposed to be taking action, on something that is making YOU unhappy. Sounds like a bad expectation to keep for yourself.
- You are probably going to have to initiate sex, 99% of the time, for the rest of your married life. The sooner you accept that, the happier you will be in your marriage.
- You will most likely have to go to confrontational measures, to get him to re-engage in your marriage.
I think that the "DB" approach, would be to, before going to extreme confrontational methods, start by doing something radically different. Such as , without asking for his approval, arrange for your children to be babysat, at least twice a week, for a few hours when you know that he would normally not be working. Then start doing some 'together stuff' during that time.
At some point, those "twice a week, no kids" times, could be used for sex. but he'll probably be most comfortable if it is just officially kept as "together time", not specifically "sex time".
Oh. But you should definately also confront him at some point (in a non-inflammatory, non-accusing, but definately a "no bull" sort of way) about masturbating. You need to KNOW about it, not just guess, becuase I think the truth about it, radically changes what needs to be done to improve your marriage. He may actually not be.
(where would he do it anyway? at the office?? If he did it at home, I would think you would 'know', not just be guessing about it.
So... what do you think of all that?
Last edited by Dom R; 09/27/0706:10 PM.
My current status: june 2006. Wife ran out and filed D. Finalized Jan 11, 2010, after 12.5 years M. 3 wonderful sons caught in the middle
sigh. never say never. in rereading my post, AFTER the edit window has expired :-/ i realize that yes, he has initiated, once or twice. But hopefully, my point is still clear: that expecting him to, is an unlikely and unreasonable expectation.
My current status: june 2006. Wife ran out and filed D. Finalized Jan 11, 2010, after 12.5 years M. 3 wonderful sons caught in the middle
Right, Trek reference for you, if a little slow. Dang work anyway.
Vulcans go into "Pon Fahr" every 7 years when they can't do anything else but think about reproducing. At other times they are able to be "fully functional" if necessary.
Scott -Who is pleased he can helpful with something here.
"Satisfaction is not guaranteed." Rule #19 Ferengi "Rules of Acquistition"
You have some points in there. My H is timid sexually but he did initiate frequently during our courtship and still does during vacations. It is an odd style of initiation but it still is initiation.
About the kids. He chooses the level of interference from the kids. Before we even met he chose to be a foster parent of 3 and 4 kids at a time such that he had already fostered a bunch before we ever met. We continued fostering up until a year or two ago when they grew up and moved out on their own. He wanted to add "our two" to "my two" making the four we have now. He would love for me to have yet another if God wills it so. So, if he has issues with the kids blocking intimacy - it is HIS issue. If you have kids then you know - you must be creative and flexible to work your own and your marital needs around life with children BUT children will not be in the picture forever so you better figure out how to have a life together for that day when the last kid rolls out of the driveway and you are left staring at one another. KWIM??? I get this. Not sure he does.
Lil,
You may be on to something there. I really never had the Spock type fantasy but my H did. The reason I know is that he once referenced some horoscope book that described my sign (Scorpio) as being so hypersexual as to be a sort of "sexual healer" of others. Also, he once referenced one of those Spock episodes after we had sex claiming that he is like Spock sexually - doesn't need it often but when he needs it, he needs it. Or something along those lines.
Scott,
Delighted you dropped in because besides Spock my H is fond of the few episodes referencing Klingon sex and mating rituals (New Generation) and seems to like the rough sexual types of the Klingon women. I have no issue with this and am probably comparable to these types occasionally (just not all the time).
Note to self: Buy Star Trek Halloween Costume (preferably the Old School O'Hura type)and suprise H.
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