All hope is lost/help

[Evie]

Hi Cat,

I love some of your descriptions for MLC - Coma, Lala land, back into the cave etc i am totally with you on that one

I seriously think you should consider a women's group. You offer support and perceptive advice to all and I think it would not only help other women but you would get what you were looking for back. It's a pity there isn't anything like that in the UK. Do you have to be trained or have qualifications?

Inner calm and peace is what i need right now.

XD

I bet your a very loving mum and wife. I have a friend very similiar and the more i get to know her the more she confides in me and I thought I knew everything about her!! Her advice has also been so perceptive it made me wonder what she had gone through herself.

What do you do for a living? I work at the same place as my H, i'm in admin he's a swimcoach (always tired because of the conditions he works in - humidity).

I looked into the prospect of a C, there was a lady locally but she didnt have enough qualification and to me that meant very little experience. We have a large organisation which is a registered charity it's called RELATE. But they have such a large waiting list that you could be divorced by the time an appointment came up. This is the group that we went to jointly for an assessment then we waited almost 2 months for an appointment, by then my H was totally against it.

My husband wouldn't read anything on R at all. He doesn't read well as he has dyxlexia and he is also very skeptical, at least your husband acknowledge's he has problems and is seeking self help. My H, I believe has issues from his childhood, his mom and dad divorced when H was 14, things had become violent and they argued often, his mom worked 2 jobs and eventually remarried a man who began to hit her regularly, H moved out to live with his dad and girlfriend, she made it very clear he could lodge at the house, but he was to be totally independent and not hassle his dad for anything. My H admitted to me recently that he was not that close to his mom, that they never chatted about girlfriends, relationships and that he has felt he has been on his own and had to work out his own problems since he was 14 (I cried when he told me, He'd never said anything before. This is why I believe he wants to leave rather than stay and work through whatever his issues are.

Update since yesterday: H went out for his curry last night but was back early as 2 mates didn't turn up. I thought he seemed distant with me. I hugged up to him in bed this morning and he hugged up to me after I'd asked him 4 times to do so. I feel I want to 'act as if', but when he is so far on his side of the bed he's practically on the floor I wonder if I should bother.

We've had problems with the computers in the house and he spent 2 hours trying to fix them this morning while I was shopping with all 4 kids. He seemed short with me when I returned and not that friendly, I asked him why he was so snappy and was he talking to me (as soon as I said it I knew I shouldn't have????), he said he was tired and has just spent 2 hours on the phone to some tech guy at aol trying to fix the computers (which he has, bless him) I said all the right things, fixed lunch and tried to be as chatty as normal. He's gone to work now and will pop back for dinner before returning back to work until 10.15 pm.

Yesterday a good colleague at work asked me how things were going, I filled her in and after a brief pause she said she thought I was been strong, but how long was I prepared to put up with this from H, I tried to explain a little about MLC but she just said 'what if it's still the same this time next year, you deserve more'. That really upset me, what if it is the same this time next year?

It's the weekend and i'm in the usual panic mode, i guess i need to slow down, i think i'm expecting to much. I know i should'nt have asked him if he was talking to me, its just that he seems to have become even more distant and it makes me want to ask him if he's still thinking of moving out, he can't sit and eat with me atm.

Must go, high school musical 2 has just started on the disney channel and kids want me to watch it.

Cat - have a great weekend, what plans do you have? Do you ever plan ahead to do things with your H? Does he want to?

[cat03]

wow! how amazing that you guys dont' have councelors at hand! my medical insurance covers Cs and Ts, and they are out there by the tons. One day I will take classes to be some sort of C perhaps, yes, you do need a degree. The group support was headed by a wonderful T who saw me through the worst of my separation.

I work on computers, publishing, on the artistic side, I could draw and paint decently, though for lack of practive I probable couldnt' so well now.

My H, now, wouldnt' read a R book, maybe if I read it to him and only 2 pgs he would agree. I think childhood issues are a huge reason why people have MLC crisis at some point. For one, my H came from an abuse household in which the father hit the mother and the 2 children, his mother took on all the abuse and didn't say anything (he brought this up very angrily to her a few times, he sort of too, kept his unhappiness quiet for so long, just as he was "taught" by his mom")
They are so afraid to be trapped in a loveless household and rather flee, they never did see a good resolution to their home's troubles.

My H would also lay on the farthest side of the bed, (when he came back last year after the S) and as much as I wanted to touch him I gave him that space. So, if he doesn't want to hug you after you askin him the first time, don't put any more pressure on him, just tell him you hope he feels better and let him be. I so want to ask my H when he'll come up and sleep with me, but I won't, I dont' want to rush him into something he isnt' ready for yet. In the meantime, he does kiss back and hug me now and then, and hold hands for a bit here and there... not what I really want but for now that's all he can give.

Unless the colleage at work has been through a separation/divorce or the likes she really can't understand what you are going through, so don't let her comments consume you. About "what if it is the same next year", that you will deal with when it the time comes. Funny, on Saturday I was sitting in church wondering how long I could bear living w/my H as if we are room mates when I was given our study guide for the quarter, 3 months. And I decided, that I'd evaluate how far we'd come along in 3 mths and see if he had made any progress, then I'd go from there, but at least I'd give myself a timeline to keep my sanity. Everyone has a different time frame, threshold for enduring pain, my T did suggest to me at the time of my S to come up with a tim line for my own sanity.

The DB book does suggest not to bring up D when the S wants out but has stopped talking about it. So I guess the same might go for your sitch, to not bring the subject about his leaving unless he brings it up. He is doing things for the children and seems like he wants to be part of the household still, that's something.

We do things together, not much time (and sometimes not much money) available, but he does want to do stuff with me and the children.

Hang in there pal, I'm usually off the boards on weekends, my kids confiscate the computer when I get home, plus, being on the computer all day makes me want to take a break take care hon))))

[Evie]

Hi Cat,

Thanks for replying, it's great to talk at least I don't feel like i'm burdening my friends and family and boring them...

I had the opportunity over the weekend to have a good read of other posts and decided to purchase a book called 'the five love languages'. I think it may help me to understand my H's wants a bit better and of course my own. I know I need words of affirmation and physical touch and I think H shows his love through Actions. I just need to understand how to put into practice what he needs to feel loved and teach him what I need, although i have told him, he just is unable to show me the way I need to be shown.

H has agreed (albeit I think relunctantly) to go out with me & friends in a couple of weeks, so i guess thats a postive.

Talking of positive i found out from H's friend that H is still in teh house because he found it was going to be too expensive to rent another place. My question is the same again: - staying in the house until he can save enough to move out or staying in the house, plodding on or deciding to stay and work at M. I don't really see much work on the M, but maybe I just needto 'read' his actions and continue with positive affirmations. I really thanked him for the kids breakfast this morning.

I hear what your saying about the hugs, but i thought maybe it would make him/us feel better?

We watched a film on tv together last night and it felt comfortable.

Thanks for the advice on the R talk, i just wanted reassuring that I was doing the right thing in not bringing the subject up.

just taking it one day at a time for now.

((( cat)))

xD

[Evie]

ps Cat - what was your study guide on?

I spoke to my really close friend last night who has stuck by me since i found the viagra nearly 2 years ago, I told her that I had found out H couldn't afford to move out that was maybe why he was still at home. She said I was making things to easy for him to stay at home... I really didn't need to hear this from her... What are your thoughts?

[cat03]

funny thing, this past quarter's study was titled "for better or worse: couples in the bilble" and boy, did it come right on time! all sorts of lessons about infidelity, forgiveness, last weeks was about Hosea and Gomer, how he took back his adulterous wife, the Lord talks to us in so many ways.

This new study guide/quarterly also comes right on time, it's called "the refiner's fire" about the trials and tribulations one is bound to go through in this life, can't wait to get started on it.

Again honey, you need to think very well who you talk to about your situation, some people might have the best interests at heart for you but might give you the wrong advice if they have never walk in your shoes.

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I was making things to easy for him to stay at home...
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What's the alternative? kick him out? ask yourself, is this what you really want to do?
no?
I didn't think so either. You married him for better and for worse and right now you are doing all that is humanly possible to stick to your vows and to save your marriage and keep your family together. At some point, (which I dont' think you are near) there is a limit, one decides to stop fighting. But, your stich is so fresh that I wouldn't even think of giving up just yet. Only you can decide when enough is enough.
Right now your H is deciding what to do, he needs some space, try and do this. I'm sure it took him a while to come up with the dreaded ILYBNILWY, so he needs as much time to sort himself out.

My cousing always told me when my H was out of the house "be the woman he could be coming home to", and by doing this I also became a better person, for ME, I learned to be in charge of my happiness and to detach from my H's rollercoaster.

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I hear what your saying about the hugs, but i thought maybe it would make him/us feel better?
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Women like to be hugged and feel affection when they feel bad, that's what WE like, but that's not necesarily what men want when they feel bad, they need space. I remember when my H hit rock bottom while we were S, and I hugged him, felt like hugging a stone, I was trying to make him feel better but prob he felt worse by the fact that he couldnt' hug me back and had no affection to give me.

[DaveJ]

Women like to be hugged and feel affection when they feel bad, that's what WE like, but that's not necesarily what men want when they feel bad, they need space. I remember when my H hit rock bottom while we were S, and I hugged him, felt like hugging a stone, I was trying to make him feel better but prob he felt worse by the fact that he couldnt' hug me back and had no affection to give me.

That is mostly true. There are exceptions however. For example, I'm the one that always needs a hug. My W on the other hand wants to be left alone to cool down. Hugging her just makes her angrier and she feels like a rock.

[Evie]

Hi Cat,

Spoke to my close friend again today who had been pondering on my stich, she thinks the reason my H may have said to his friend that he couldn't afford to move out, was because he may actually not know what he really wants and to save face he told his friend he couldn't afford it?? It looks like our property abroad may be sold by the end of the year and it makes me wonder if that's what he's waiting for??? I feel like i'm sitting on a time bomb. But I am trying to be positive and telling myself he is here for now so keep on DBing...

My H acts indifferent if I hug him, I feel I can't be spontaneous, but i'm not really sure if he wants hugging or not if i'm feeling confident and acting 'as if' then i would hug up to his back in bed, but most of the time i feel he needs space.

He did me a huge favour today and I made sure I told him and he knew how appreciative I was that he had helped me. Today is teh day he agreed to bath and put boys to bed, however, he got held up at work and didn't make it back until they had gone to bed. He did text me to explain and i replied thanking him for letting me know and that it wasn't a problem. So we'll see if I can see some small improvements for my 'positive affirmations'!!

Cat - do you and hubby go to church together? do you work on your study together? I guess it makes you question things then?

I don't go to church, maybe I should?

You are right about my stich been fresh and yes i'm not ready to give in, I just wish I knew what was going on his head?? Is he working on things in his own way? in one respect things are much better at home, I feel less needy and stronger, more independent, but at the same time desparate for him to notice the change.

Are you having a good week with H, how's his work stich?

How do you gauge improvements and do you have R talks?

PMA

XD

[Evie]

i'm so frustrated this morning. I wish H would say something like 'things are ok atm, can we just take it one day at a time?' I just wish I knew where I stood and if he wants to work at the M. I feel like asking but I feel ok atm and don't want to deal with him saying he is still planning on going b/c then I would want him gone asap. This is so selfish, what about my needs, what about communication?

aarghhhhhhhhh

rant over

(((XD))))

[cat03]

Hi, the waiting game is awful, I know you must feel sick most of the time. Your H might be still deciding what to do. During our S my H went back and forth between coming back and staying away (he told me that later). Perhaps you can approach the subject very carefully, and ask him how he is doing, and that you appreciate all the help he's been giving lately, how things have been rather difficult between you two lately but that you want him to know that you'll stand by him and your M. Something like that perhaps,I suggest is that you do not corner him if you do decide to bring up this subject.

Things are the same on my end, H still goes to T, still home with us, but other than that still his distant self with me as far as affection, still sleeps in spare room, so I have to gather he isn't ready at all to connect with me. It's been rather hard to see improvements, the one I see is that when he have an argument he does try to control himself and calls me sweety, I'm counting that up as a plus sign on our road to improvement. Also, he calls back after we argue and we both try to move on and not have our usual argument about the argument.
No R talks, he's still working with T on himself and I gather he still has a ways to go, he's still piecing himself together.

What pulls me out of bed in the morning is God and my 2 smiling children. I would be in very bad shape if I didnt' hold on to Him, there are times when things are too much for me and I tell God that I can't take it anymore and ask him to take the burden for me, and I feel much much better. My H stopped going to church before he left on 2005, I firmly believe that's when things started getting worse, he lost his faith and then did stuff he would've never even done before.
I still go to church every saturday, it is my lifeline.

Sometimes we must go to through trials by fire to finally pay attention to God, I will bring this wonderful book i'm reading tomorrow and will post some good stuff I read, about suffering and how to cope with it with God's help.

When my H left back then, my prayers were nothing but crying chants of "please help me, i'm hurting so much" over and over again. From there, God granted serenity as the weeks, months went by. I found myself waking up and decide to smile and thank God for having him and my 2 children and my family and friends and a job... and be happy with my many blessings.

Hope you are feeling better today hon, here goes another cliche: take it one day at a time, for tomorrow will bring its own sorrows. Live this day for you and claim every day.

[Evie]

Hi,

Well today i'm afraid to say I feel a bit heavy of heart b/c of last night.

I was meant to be going out with my friend who let me down. I assumed (wrongly that H would stay in with me) but he didn't he put on his shoes and said he was off out and he went, he didn't say where he was going he just said 'see you later, bye'. I wished him a good evening. Both D's were at work and phoned to see if I could collect them at 10.15pm. They told me that H had said he was off to the gym and then the cinema so they had to walk home and he would have known that (it's not far and safe)

I'm upset b/c 1) he didn't tell me where he was going and 2) I felt I couldn't ask and 3)it makes me feel even more like we are co-habitors.

I have read my book on the 5 LL. I was surprised to learn that mine was 'words of affirmation' I thought it was 'quality time', then hugging and affection.... The thing is I have no idea what H's LL is!!! How bad is that??? I THINK it may be 'acts of love' or 'gifts'. His way of an apology was always to clean or cook and he has always been the spender, mainly at B'days/Xmas etc but always impulsive. I'm the one who is careful with money.

I get the impression he is feeling much more himself, i know he's watching his weight and has started to excercise more, but I just feel that last night was a 2 finger at me. I have to say i'm gutted. I will try and have a PMA today, I know we have time together for a family lunch out tomorrow to look forward to, but it seems everything i'm doing is not having an effect all.

Are your C quite young Cat? At least you must feel a small sense of security knowing that you H is there b/c he wants to work on your M, albeit at his own slow pace. He seems as if he needs time and space and you know that and are complying, you have thepatience of a saint. I'm glad you have a faith and a life line, I'm not religous but I don't judge folks who are, my best friend is V religeous and her H a bishop. I don't know about you but I can't really talk to family and friends too much, they don't understand and say everything is unfair on me (I know that, but don't need to here it from them). Does 'T' stand for a trainer of some sort?

I'm sorry this is a panicking self pity party this morning.

Look forward to your optimisism
(((XD)))