MD's use words like trauma when they mean bruising. She has obviously picked up on this terminology and is using it as a stick to beat you with. I would be very careful about becoming more "sensitive" a lot of the guys here are dealing with issues brought about by being TOO nice. Sure you need to be aware and not to be too aggressive but tip-toeing around her is NOT the answer.
I am not saying you didn't hurt her, but she DID participate and she did like it like that. Just as others have said lubrication is key as is position. Do you ever let her go on top? For me that is a surefire way to O with vaginal penetration.
I had always aimed to please and she was always frustrated with failure to come vaginally, claiming I didn't get her going;
This is nonsense. We have had a lot of discussion on this board about who's job it is to get the woman to come. She has a much bigger part to play than she is acknowledging. I would say, if you ever do get that far, that next time you insist she goes on top and that you will learn from the way she is moving her body etc what turns her on. If you are reasonably fit and she is not hugely overweight you can still thrust from underneath her - which is something I personally find a huge turn-on.
Lastly, some couples that engage in "rough" sex have a code word or signal to use when it's getting too rough, she may have been enjoying it at first and then you couldn't tell the difference between moans of pleasure and moans of pain - maybe sometimes she even can't. That's why the code word/signal is the needed so she can clearly say STOP in a way that you know isn't just part of the game.
Good luck
Fran
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
It sounds to me that you (and at some point your wife) would benefit greatly in talking to a sex therapist, or a sex surrogate... it sounds to me that your wife is hitting you smack dab in the middle of your male ego... and you are accepting it. I think that is really below the belt (what a pun...)
It is one thing for her to be honest with you and tell you what she does and doesn't like (which I think is good), but I also think she needs to participate a heck of a lot more in her own pleasure, and owning that responsibility. I don't know WHY women think men automatically KNOW this stuff (or should)... but... many of us do... (I did... sigh)...
If she isn't having a vaginal orgasm and she wants one... then it's up to her to find out how to get one, and ask if you'd be willing to help her get there... kwis? Can you see how that would automatically put you both in a different frame of mind, right there?
I'm sure there is more to the separation story than just the sex... I'd like to hear it... but if there isn't... I dunno. Sex is so much more than just great technique and getting off. Troubled sex lives are often indicators of other serious issues in the R. Has she talked about any of that?
The UTI isn't the big issue here, but of course I am "dangerous" to her. The proper DB ettiquette is to always be super clean, encourage before and after pees, and admit guilt. This is only part of the dynamic of course . . .
Only part of the dynamic, indeed. I appreciate what you're trying to do and the willingness to make changes to save your marriage .... *truly* I do .... but be careful that in your enthusiasm to make it work/"fix yourself" that you don't "nice" yourself into a corner (which will likely lead to resentment down the road) or take responsibility for *everything* (which IMHO is a form of control).
Any woman who has every had a UTI never wants one again. Information on prevention (cleanliness, urination, cranberry extract) is freely available. It is Her body, Her pain, and Her responsibility. While it would of course be considerate (in all ways) for you to be squeaky clean, the peeing is in her court; there should be no need to "encourage" an adult woman to do that. I don't see guilt as an issue, with the UTIs especially.
As far as your vigorous thrusting goes ... well, listen to what she has said she wants; kissing etc. Her responsibility is to communicate, in detail, what she enjoys ... your responsibility (assuming you want her to really enjoy it, which I assume you do) is to give her that to the best of your ability.
But as far as "guilt" goes .... if something hurts, a sensible person says "OW, stop!" And if she *didn't* know there was a problem at the time, how could you be expected to?
"Show me a completely smooth operation and I'll show you someone who's covering mistakes. Real boats rock." -- Frank Herbert
symptoms bacteria recurrent infections Men Women menopause Mechanical Causes Mechanical reduced or prevent Drugs Food or Herbal Less effective References
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URINARY INFECTIONS / uncomplicated cystitis - a patient's guide
Overview Usually, a UTI is caused by bacteria that can also live in the digestive tract, in the vagina, or around the urethra, which is at the entrance to the urinary tract. Most often these bacteria enter the urethra from the rectum and travel to the bladder and kidneys, your body removes the bacteria, and you have no symptoms
What are the symptoms? Pain while urinating and a frequent urge to urinate are the main symptoms of a urinary tract infection. There may be a burning or scalding sensation when going to the toilet, passing only a small amount of urine, or not be able to go at all. You may feel the need to go again after having just been to the toilet. The urine may look cloudy.
There may also be blood in the urine and an ache above the pelvic bone. The main complication of a bladder infection is that it can spread to the kidneys. A fever, rigors (shaking and shivering), and pain on the loin area (back of the abdomen), may mean the infection has reached the kidneys.
Dipsticks that change color when an infection is present are now available without a prescription. The strips detect nitrite, which is formed when bacteria change nitrate in the urine to nitrite. The strips can detect about 90% of urinary tract infections when used with the first morning urine specimen and are useful for women with recurrent infections
Laboratory tests of urine can confirm an infection. Inflammatory cells (white cells) are present in the urine and a culture of the urine usually shows which bacteria are present and which antibiotic they are sensitive to. A follow up test may be required in some cases.
Recurrent infections occur in about 10 percent of women and they may need to take low-dose antibiotics for a longer period. An ultrasound examination or a cystoscopy may be recommended to establish the source of infection. About one in five women will experience a urinary tract infection. Some women with recurrent infections may have bacteria that burrow in the bladder wall and lie dormant between attacks.
Bacteria The condition can be treated with a course of antibiotics. The choice of antibiotic is usually determined by local knowledge of the sensitivity of common bacteria. Commonly used antibiotics include bacterium (co-trimoxazole) trimethoprim (triprim) or norfloxacilin (noroxin).
Infections can be caused by bacteria (e.coli from the bowel is the most common organism), which are present on the skin in the area, which get into the bladder via the urethra (small tube leading from the bladder). Infections can be caused by E. coli, staph.aureus, Proteus, Klebsiella, Pseudomonas
E. coli. is responsible for between 72% and 85% of cystitis cases in younger women, and more than 50% in women over 50. In most cases of UTI, E. coli, which originates as a harmless micro-organism in the intestines, spreads to the vaginal passage, where it invades and colonizes the urinary tract. One study suggests that even when infected cells lining the bladder die and slough off, carrying the E. coli bacteria with them, some bacteria can invade into deeper tissue in the bladder, where they survive to re-infect the patient later on.
Staphylococcus saprophyticus may be another common culprit, especially in younger women. Interestingly, infections caused by this bacteria have a seasonal variation, with a higher incidence in the summer and fall than in the winter and spring. Staphylococcus saprophyticus (5 to 15% of cases), Klebsiella and enterococci bacteria are often found in UTIs in older women. Proteus mirabilis is the other common bacterium associated with these infections. Pseudomonas aeruginosa is a rare bacterial cause and is most often detected in hospital-acquired UTIs. Other. Some evidence suggests that Ureaplasma urealyticum and Mycoplasma hominis, which are generally harmless organisms, may be responsible for occasional urinary tract disorders.
Other bacteria that cause urinary tract infections include Chlamydia trachomatis, and Mycoplasma hominis. Men and women infected with chlamydia trachomatis or mycoplasma hominis can transmit the bacteria to their partner during sexual intercourse, causing UTI.
If you have an infection do not have sexual intercourse or use tampons until after you have recovered.
Another cause of a UTI cystocele. When the vaginal wall next to the bladder has become weakened for any reason, the bladder can protrude directly into the vagina, holding back small pools of urine. Such tissue weakening is common after several vaginal deliveries, menopause, or gynecologic surgery. Cystoceles may require surgery themselves.
Diverticula are crevices (abscesses) that develop on the inside wall of the urethra. If several of these small pockets merge to form a larger one, urinary debris can accumulate in it. When diverticula become swollen or inflamed, urine may not drain well, leading to chronic infection. Surgery may be required. Suspect diverticula if you feel burning on urination between bladder infections.
Urethral Stenosis A narrowing of the urethra, called urethral stenosis, can be present at birth or result from a number of conditions or activities. These include having had a UTI in childhood; infection of the vagina or vulva; previous infection, such as gonorrhea; a sudden increase in your sex life; childbirth; catheterization after surgery; the physical changes of pregnancy; and changes related to a deficiency of estrogen during and after menopause
Mechanical causes Sexual intercourse may be a trigger to this happening. This is more likely if sex has been vigorous or if lubrication is not good. If penile entry is not on an angle the vigina is on (good alignment male=\, \=female) (bad alignment male=| \=female) urethra irritation may result and bacteria are more prone to develop at an irritated site. During sex, you may want to try different positions that cause less friction to your urethra from your partner's penis.
Sexual intercourse may precipitate an infection, but urine infection is not a sexually transmitted condition. Nearly 80% of all urinary tract infections occur within 24 hours of intercourse.
Research suggests that women who use diaphragms are more at risk of developing a urinary tract infection than others, and those with certain blood types could be more at risk.
Another study has found women whose partners use condoms with spermicides may have bacteria in the vagina that can cause an infection.
Sexual position can contribute to the risk. Using a sterile water-based lubricant may help reduce this risk. Other data suggests too much lube may spread bacteria if the couple does not wash before intercourse
Women who have skin allergies to ingredients in soaps, vaginal creams, bubble baths, or other chemicals that are used in the genital area are at high risk for UTIs because bacteria may enter through the allergic reaction sites.
In older, post menopausal women, factors favoring urine infection relate more to changes involving the effects of less estrogen on the tissues around the bladder and vagina.
Sometimes underlying problems such as kidney stones or kidney abnormalities may lead to urine infections. Sometimes further tests are done to check for this, particularly if infections are recurring often.
Pregnant women, people with diabetes and weak immune systems are also more at risk of infection.
Men with an infection often have a kidney stone, or an enlarged prostate gland. Men are usually investigated after a urinary infection to make sure there is no underlying problem. Men with an infection may be treated with antibiotics for a longer period to stop the prostate gland being infected.
Drug treatments Most UTIs are treated with trimethoprim-sulfamethoxazole (e.g., Bactrim(r), Cotrim(r), Septra(r)), amoxicillin (e.g., Amoxil(r), Trimox(r)), or fluoroquinolones (e.g., Levaquin(r), Cipro(r)). The infection may improve within a couple of days, but 1 to 2 weeks of medication is may be prescribed to prevent a kidney infection.
UTIs that are caused by bacteria such as chlamydia trachomatis and mycoplasma hominis require a longer course of treatment with tetracycline (e.g., Achromycin(r)), trimethoprim-sulfamethoxazole, or doxycycline (e.g., Periostat(r)).
Prophylactic Antibiotics If you tend to have frequent UTIs, your health care provider may suggest that you take a small daily dose of antibiotic. Or, if you tend to have UTI infections after sexual intercourse, you might be advised to take a dose of antibiotic just before or just after you engage in intercourse. Both trimethoprim-sulfamethoxazole and nitrofurantoin are used in small doses to prevent urinary tract infections.
Menopause The walls of the urinary tract thin out, weakening the mucous membrane and reducing its ability to resist bacteria. With estrogen loss, there is a reduction of certain immune factors in the vagina, which results in E. coli adhering to vaginal cells. Levels of lactobacilli (the protective organisms) decline after menopause, perhaps due to drops in estrogen.
Some women carry the blood group P1, which, as they get older, makes them susceptible to large numbers of cells in the vagina and urethra attracting and binding a specific strain of E. coli. This strain is resistant to normal infection-fighting mechanisms.
The bladder may lose elasticity and fail to empty completely.
Antibiotics often eliminate lactobacilli, the protective bacteria, along with harmful bacteria. This causes an overgrowth of E. coli in the vagina.
In one study, the risk for UTI increased during the 15 to 28 days that women were taking antibiotics. In fact, some research suggests that taking antibiotics for a urinary tract infection increases the risk for a subsequent infection.
Estrogen: Postmenopausal women who use an estrogen vaginal cream or estrogen-releasing vaginal ring (Estring) have a significantly lower incidence of recurring urinary tract infections than women not using such topical estrogens. Researchers suggest that estrogen may resist infection by increasing the number of lactobacilli, the micro-organisms that fight infection by lowering the vaginal pH levels and preventing E. coli from adhering to vaginal cells. Taking oral estrogen does not seem to provide the same benefit as the topical forms, and in any case is proving to have some health risks.
Estrogen reduction brings about several changes in the genitourinary tract that increase UTI risk: structural atrophy, urinary dysfunction, and depletion of vaginal colonization of Lactobacilli. (These changes can appear either immediately or several years postmenopausal.)
Some research suggests that estrogen may help increase the number of beneficial bacteria that help fight infections
In the per menopausal and menopausal patient with multiple UTI's, the addition of topical estrogen may decrease the risk of continued infections. Estrogen creams are available to apply to the vaginal and urethral tissues. The addition of estrogen will strengthen the sensitive tissues and lower the vaginal pH, thereby reducing recurrent infections. (estrogen vaginal cream will help with this problem. (Strengthens the bladder tissues as well as vaginal effects). Ellie kml on DB)
To cause these beneficial changes, at least 4-6 weeks of topical estrogen is necessary. Lower, less frequent doses are then necessary to prevent the recurrence of these changes. In general, commonly used dosages of topical estrogen creams will not be significantly absorbed from the vagina into the blood stream. Therefore, concerns of excessive estrogen intake should be alleviated.
Estring The risk of recurrent urinary tract infections in older women may be diminished by systemic or topical estrogen replacement therapy, according to this review of the literature.
In the past century, the average age at which menopause begins hasn't changed, but the average life expectancy for women has: from approximately 50 years in 1900 to nearly 80 years in 1995. 1 That means women can spend up to a third of their lives deficient in estrogen (on average, women go through menopause at age 51). Yet all too often, women view the physiologic changes initiated at menopause as an inevitable aspect of aging, particularly if symptoms aren't life threatening. But a chronic condition such as recurrent urinary tract infection (UTI)-which is more prevalent among postmenopausal women than among younger women-is inconvenient, uncomfortable, costly, and affects the quality of one's life. It's also associated with urinary incontinence, 2 pyelonephritis, 3 and a potentially higher mortality rate. 4
------------------------------------- What can be done to help?: The condition can be reduced or prevented in some cases by following this advice: Drink lots of water Drink 8 oz. of cranberry juice (at least 30% strength, less sugar is better) Empty your bladder at least once every four to five hours Use the toilet when you feel the urge Wipe from front to back after going to the toilet Change to clean underwear if you see stool soiling Wash the anal area after a bowel movement Dab instead of wiping the genitals after urinating Have showers instead of baths Do not use feminine hygiene products, no douching Wash your genitals with just water or mild soap. If you find that UTIs are a constant problem, try washing your vaginal area with a hand-held shower attachment before and after sex.. Even if you keep your rectal area very clean, E. coli can reside in your underwear and work their way around to the vaginal area during exercise. Be sure you and your sex partner keep your genital and anal areas clean at all times and wash your hands (and under your fingernails) before foreplay and sex. Within 10 minutes after sex, urinate again to flush out any bacteria that may have entered the vagina. The larger volume of urine you can force out, the less chance you will get a UTI. Your doctor may suggest taking an antibiotic pill right after sex if you tend to have repeated UTIs.
Changes in the Acid-Alkaline Balance of the Urinary Tract. Changes in the amount or type of acid within the genital and urinary tracts are major contributors to lowering the resistance to infection. For example, beneficial organisms called lactobacilli increase the acidic environment in the urinary tract. Reductions in their number (which, for example, occurs with estrogen loss after menopause), increases pH and therefore the risk of infection.
DIETARY MEASURES Reducing sugar intake in the diet is reasonable since there is evidence that sugar can reduce the effectiveness of the immune response (19). Reducing intake of carbonated beverages is also reasonable. In one study the use of carbonated beverages was associated with more than twice the risk of developing UTIs (7). A vegetarian diet reduces the growth of certain bacteria in the urine (12). Finally, avoid spicy foods, alcohol and any beverages that contain caffeine. They can irritate your bladder.
Cranberry juice does this by preventing Streptococcus mutans bacteria from sticking to teeth. In order for dental plaque to build up on the teeth--the first step toward cavities and gum disease--bacteria has to stick to the teeth. If the bacteria can't adhere, plaque can't develop. * They prevent urinary tract infections. * They prevent most stomach ulcers. * Their high level of antioxidants protect the heart from cardiovascular disease. * A study from Winona State University showed that low-calorie cranberry juice decreases total blood cholesterol. * A study from the University of Massachusetts-Dartmouth showed that cranberries may reduce the severity of a stroke in its early stages, the point at which the most damage occurs. * The antioxidants in cranberries may also help prevent certain types of cancers. While data is preliminary, researchers are interested in cranberries' role in inhibiting the growth of oral, prostate, colon, breast, cervical, lung and leukemia cancer cells, reports Medical News Today. Animal studies indicate that certain compounds found in cranberry and blueberry juices prevent the E. coli bacteria from sticking to the bladder wall. St. Francis College in Brooklyn and Mt. Sinai School of Medicine in have found that cranberry juice not only helps disrupt bacterial infections of the urinary tract, but also may work to fight gastrointestinal viruses, characterized by cramps and diarrhea. Hundreds of thousands of children die from gastroenteritis each year throughout the world Cant brush at work? Drink cranberry Juice and reduce gum and teeth diseases. Kill the germs that cause gingivitis and plaque by brushing regularly, flossing, and using an antiseptic mouthwash. The best toothbrush you can use is an electric toothbrush with circular bristle heads that rotate in alternating directions. 
HERBALS Cranberry juice or extract can prevent bacterial adherence to the bladder (20,21) and reduce the number of UTIs (7,20,21). Drinking two cups of cranberry juice daily is reasonable. For those who don't like cranberry juice, or would rather avoid the sugar, there are concentrated cranberry extracts available in capsule form. Optimal dosing of these is not known. Goldenseal (Hydrastis canadensis), an immune stimulant which also has some antibacterial properties, can be helpful in UTIs. A typical dose is 1 gram three times daily of dried root or 250-500 milligrams of an extract standardized to 8% alkaloid (16). Uva-Ursi (Arctostaphylus) has a mild diuretic effect (4) and antibacterial properties (2,16) which may be helpful in UTIs. The recommended dose is 250-500 milligrams three times daily of an extract standardized to 10% arbutin (16). NUTRITIONAL SUPPLEMENTS Digestive enzymes may help break down the proteins that allow bacteria to adhere to the bladder (14). Optimal dosing is not known. Mannose inhibits bacterial adherence (10). Optimal dosing is not known. Probiotics ("friendly bacteria" like lactobacillus) displace the bacteria which are likely to cause UTIs and thus can help prevent UTIs (5,9,17,18). A popular dose is 1-2 grams twice daily. ----------------------------- Herbal preparations be used 3 to 4 times per day during a urinary tract infection: Staphysagria - for a UTI that is the result of sexual intercourse Goldenseal root - This herb has a long and well-documented history as a powerful antimicrobial agent. Use as a tea made from 1 tsp of dried herb per cup of hot water; in capsule form (1000 mg); or as a tincture (1 to 2 teaspoons in warm water).
Home cures * Put one teaspoon of baking soda in one-half cup of water once or twice a day. * Avoid caffeine, acid foods, spices, citrus fruits, tomatoes, alcohol, and chocolate. You may find these things increase your discomfort. Your doctor also may prescribe a urinary analgesic, such as phenazopyridine, for the pain.
Use lots of lube, Astroglide from Wal-Mart or better a silicone lube because silicone lubes don't dry out or become stickier. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_lubricant#Silicone-based Popular brands include KY Intrigue, ID Millennium, Eros, Eros Essentials, Sliquid Silver, Wet Platinum, DeGLOW, and Liquid Silk.
CanChange My 180 is to lay off and learn to be sweet as apple pie for the rest of my life. Rest of your life????? Well, if you do it for the rest of your life, you might not be M to your current W.
but be careful that in your enthusiasm to make it work/"fix yourself" that you don't "nice" yourself into a corner (which will likely lead to resentment down the road) or take responsibility for *everything* (which IMHO is a form of control
Kettricken, I see this as a problem that isn't visible at first to 90% of the nice guys trying to make the R work.
CanChange, Listen to Kettricken.
The more you do above and beyond what is your responsibility, the more your W can blame you. BTDT, it didn’t work. Sometime it works better when you allow your W to work things out w/o you being the “nice guy.”
