That is always the case when only one spouse posts here.
I know far more about Hairdog than I do of his wife, because Hairdog talks about himself, the good, the bad, the ugly, and the funny. I give this more credit than I do about his analysis of his wife, though his version is the only account I can take into consideration. As is yours. But he does not spend most of his time here analyzing his wife. He spends most of his time spent here discussing how HE THINKS/FEELS/ACTS/RESPONDS given a set of circumstances. His wife is a part of that discussion. Not THE discussion.
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I did this to. But even my own analysis of myself can be wrong. If your analysis of yourself was not wrong at some point, you would not have mistepped with CAC.
Well... that is the whole point of this forum. Unless I admit to myself and acknowledge that I have misstepped... everyone just thinks I'm too self-involved/self-righteous to hear anyone else. It doesn't mean my self-analysis is/was wrong. It means I didn't apply it in an effective manner. I know better. I fcked up. I apologized because I know I screwed up. It doesn't mean my SELF-analysis was incorrect. But maybe it is. Depends.
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Burg challenged why I thought with certainty there was something fishy. I am still certain there was something fishy. That is how I saw it. If another situation comes up like that I will think it is fishy. This is no different that Nop saying he will “ferret out an affair.” Certain situations smell fishy to him too.
That doesn't mean he is right. It means he smells fish. And that is all that it means. He does not take it to the point of accusing someone of lying. He may not agree, but he doesn't press why he is smelling fish is MORE valid than a person's POV. You may not think you are doing this, and you may not be... but this is how you are coming across. To a majority. If it were one person saying this... eh. If you have two people... well... maybe... you have a multiple number of people telling you the same thing. That is all. Do with it what you will.
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And what if I AM doing just that? What if they are getting the Cobra version of things but that version is not what they like to hear? Why do you assume that I am somehow twisting the truth?
I don't think you are twisting the truth. I think you have been quite honest and vulnerable... on things with which you are willing to share. (Miniscule) Cac is being honest. About the 1/100,000th of him that he feels safe and willing to share. You cannot help someone who is unwilling to 'go' there. He doesn't want to go there. Fine. Cool. I can't help. But my empathy and tolerance of his gripes regarding his M and sex life are pretty much gone, too. Just as it is with CeMar.
The Cobra version of things I am talking about... is not how you see the world out there... but how you see and feel the inner world of Cobra. Even Blackfoot lets out more about himself than you do, and he doesn't let out much. That's what people are talking about.
That's an observation. Not a judgment. Just something to think about.
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I can understand this from most people except she-who-shall-not-be-named.
Okay... but I'm wondering why? What does that get you? That the NOPs tag team? Of course they do, they are married. They ARE on the same team (which you cheered for when you saw the Cac's doing this recently.)
Why you would ever think someone you don't know... interacting on an anonymous BB... and has specifically hunted down and selected YOU, above anyone else... would WANT and actively work toward your M failing, and on top of that, derive PLEASURE from such activity... is no where in my realm of understanding... not even remotely. I ask you to clarify, and you won't. You sound paranoid. Fine. Since you won't discuss, and my interpretation of actions does and will continue to go unchallenged and unexplored... my opinion reigns. And will color all perceptions of you. (Except that they don't, but that is not what I'm discussing here).
Many, many more of such perceptions, as reported to you by countless folks, goes unexplored. Because you are unwilling to go there, you feel attacked. I get that. But what I am trying to tell you is... if you aren't will to clear it up... you will continue to feel attacked. If you want to feel that way... fine. If you wonder why you are not being understood... you've been told. Can't help any further than that.
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Then you haven’t listened much to me. It been a little while since I spoke about our sitch in detail, but I have discussed all that is going on in my M.
I didn't say I haven't been listening. I'm trying to... convey what I think I am hearing from other people here... in a way you might get... so if you feel so inclined, you can attempt to be more clear.
If not... NBD.
Just a FWIW... people tend to have much more respect for you when you are willing to do yourself that which you ask of others. You have done this... but it isn't a one time deal, or even an every now-and-then deal. You do it everyday... you show people that you are doing yourself what you ask of others. "Let me show you.... Me." (Not your wife, or your kids) THEN you ask them to do. kwis?
And if you thought everything was great and strong and you were being all you could be... (even strong marriages are vulnerable)... there IS a part you played in it. For it takes two people to make a marriage, and two people to break it.
I think he is wondering what you think YOUR part in that was...
What I thought in the beginning and in the years leading up to the affair was that I was an imperfect woman and wife who was striving to constantly improve myself. Our first 5 years were incredible even though they were not perfect and I was not perfect. I felt like I was a better person at 5 years into our marriage. When things went "wrong," I owned up to my mistakes. I am not perfect but sometimes I get the feeling that the only way I could have kept my XH from straying would have been to be perfect and when people like you, Cobra and others take this tact it does bring up that feeling back up. Like I have to some how prove to ya'll that I am not a terrible person who DROVE my XH to seek refuge in another's arms. My counselor (and our MC) and my XH have stressed to me that I was NOT in any way the cause of my XH's affair.
The ONLY thing our counselor thought that I could have done is that 3 years previous when he had a very good woman friend (EA) I could have been willing to show how serious of a problem it was by separating and being willing to walk away from the marriage and he thinks that would have given my XH a clearer signal than all of my talking, crying, yelling, rational discussion, begging, etc. Maybe I am being foolish but I do not regret not leaving him because that was not my choice. My choice was to stay married because I married with the intention that it was for better or worse.
OTOH are you asking if I think I was as good as I could have been or if I never made mistakes, then I would have to say no. The trouble is that I am not as good as I can be now and I still make mistakes either. Will I ever be good enough for someone to marry and stay married to? What is required to be considered "good enough" to not "cause" my partner to have an affair? Do I have to have a perfect body, make lots of money at a job I love, smile all the time, never ask my spouse for ANYTHING, never ever complain about anything and somehow make my family perfect?
Since my XH did not take my feelings into consideration as much as I thought he should have in our marriage, would I have been justified to have an affair? What if he did not make enough money? What if he turned me down for sex?
Are all people in stable, long term marriages with no affairs perfect people and perfect spouses? I have yet to meet people who say their partners have no issues.
Is the theory that if your spouse does not have an affair or leave you, then you are an okay spouse? If they do have an affair or leave you, then you are the problem?
I do not see it as that easy to determine which spouse is the one with the problem but that is my opinion. I know I will always have to deal with the fact that I will be looked at as the one that was not perfect and the one that drove my XH away. I have to live with that. Thankfully I have friends and family to help me through this and counseling to remind me what the truth is.
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
Fearless... Was the EA the first time that you encountered an issue with H regarding his interest in OW? Were there any previous episodes of subtle ( or not so subtle) flirting? ( Flirting is not really the word I am looking for...more like friendship/interest that made you feel uncomfortable).
You don't have to prove a darn thing to me. I was only putting out there, hopefully in another way, what I think Cobra might have been driving at. He may very well show up here and say, 'no, no, no, don't listen to Corri, she is full of beans... I meant...'
And then I've stuck my nose in where it probably doesn't belong... again.
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I do not see it as that easy to determine which spouse is the one with the problem but that is my opinion.
IMHO, it is seldom just one person with the 'problem.' I understand the whole notion of... 'well, if I had been perfect, then problem solved!'
And if he was the one with the problem... why was it so hard to accept that? Why were you the one who was always being the one to own your imperfection, change, try something else... kwis? That's rhetorical... no need to respond. BTDT myself.
I know I will always have to deal with the fact that I will be looked at as the one that was not perfect and the one that drove my XH away. I have to live with that.
it takes two people to make a marriage and it takes to people to break it. Your H deciding to have the affair was his sole responsibility. But up until that moment, the R deteriorating to a point that he was vulnerable enough to make that decision, you did play a part in.
While this is true (dual responsibility in marital deterioration) for some affairs, it isn't true for all. In the book Fearless referenced by Frank Pittman, there are categories of affairs indicating some of the differences.
There are marriages in which hidden infidelity began before the flowers in the wedding bouquet wilted. Before the betrayed spouse had the time to contribute to a marital deterioration.
There are also philanderers, romantics and the love junkies who are chasing the chemical rush of new love which can't be sustained in longer term relationships. There are mental illnesses and personality disorders that crop up after marriage that contribute to the ranks of infidelity - again with no connection to the betrayed spouse's actions or inactions.
Even after the discovery of an affair, the betrayed spouse is often willing to work on the marriage in spite of the affair. The unwilling party is usually the infidel.
I don't think that it takes 2 people to break a marriage in all affairs/divorces. One determined spouse can destroy it alone.
People who say that I contributed to the relationship "deteriorating" to a point where he became vulnerable. I guess it would have been more accurate to say people who will question my role.
the R deteriorating to a point that he was vulnerable enough to make that decision, you did play a part in.
You don't have to prove a darn thing to me.
I know that. I choose to face the fact I have not perfectly dealt with everything yet. I choose to face up to that demon in me that fears that my imperfection was the cause of the affair. It is not an every day thing I deal with and is not a huge issue but it is an issue that comes around and I need to deal with it.
I guess it is also a goal of mine to help people understand their own issues well enough that they do not make the same mistake my XH did.
By the way, that was me being fiery and passionate not angry and p!ssed. I'm not sure if you can tell the difference in written word
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
I should have said that some people will view me that way and I have to live with that. After all there are people that will view interracial relationships poorly, people that think if you don't make lots of money you are not worthwhile, etc. We have to live with people who believe those things but we don't have let our self esteem be driven by those people. Sorry I was a bit too brief in my rant!
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
My W has also stated for years that she has worked through her FOO...
What about you and your foo? What strengths did you gain from your family, what weaknesses? What are/were some of the issues that you have dealt with or are dealing with today? If you have identified poor skills derived from your foo, what steps, if any, have you taken in order to not pass those on to your children?
Do you believe that an adult's shortcomings are all a result of his/her foo or do you think that some of failings/weakness/vulnerabilities are a result of the individual's personality and/or personal choices?
