N - I can relate to your sitch. I too have a 22 month old. Have A daughter that is. I have been seperated for 8 mons W has filed and we are going to D mediation. It all comes down to control my friend. The sooner you let go and realize you never had it in the first place the better. You have to decide what you want. It can take months or even years to convince our spouses to give the R another chance. If you can't give her time and space on her terms then it's over. All you can do is be all u can be like the army says and like everyone on this board says GAL. Stop doing what hasnt worked do 180's, no R talk thats it. It sucks but we both got to this point for a reason. It does take 2 to brake it and 2 to make it! Hey I like that. I'm going to write that one down ;\) Not sure if you saw this posting before but this is the cliff notes version of what to do if there's any hope for your R.

Good Luck. BM07

1. Buy Divorce Busting and the books and read them five times, and them read five more times.

2. Give her space and don’t pressure: This - my friends - is numero uno. If you cannot do this, you WILL surely end your marriage or at minimum prolong emotional and physical distance between you and your spouse indefinitely. Don’t believe me? Then keep doing it and see what happens. I know it is hard, and yes, it was unbelievably frustrating for me. At first I did not succeed, and it really pissed her off. To you such behavior may seem as if you are showing your commitment and love, but to her, you are being selfish and disrespectful. My wife told me recently that one of the most important things I did during our separation was to back off and let her think. She needed to MISS ME. Last Christmas she went home to her parents (who by the way despise me and still do) and I drove across the country to see my family. I did not call or email for two weeks. Guess who started to call and email me saying she missed me within a week or so? SO, this means stop calling, stop emailing, stop text messaging, stop asking for dates/time together etc. etc. If you want her back, LEAVE HER ALONE. Pressure speaks volumes about desperation and weakness – something women find incredibly unattractive. Women want someone who is strong, silent and dependable. Begging, pleading, crying, manipulating and trying to convince her to change her mind will only make you repulsive and WILL push her out the door faster than anything else! You have to be strong and cool. This does not mean you should ignore her completely. But in general, let her contact you, and if she won’t, DON’T pick up the phone or email. Let her know occasionally that you are her friend and you are there for her or your kids (if you have any) if they/she need anything. And I mean, a one or two sentence email or voicemail, and don’t tell her you love her and miss her, and don’t use this as an excuse to get her on the phone and start blabbering about how much you love her, want a second chance, will change, want to make it work…blah blah blah, because all that she hears is exactly that - “blah, blah, blah, whine, whine, whine moan, moan, moan.” She hears a pathetic, frightened man (which we all are when we going through this) but don’t let her see it. Who wants to live with and depend upon someone like this? I wouldn’t. So, for God’s sake people, IF YOU WANT HER BACK LEAVE HER ALONE. She is driving this train, and you have to accept that. Patience is your indispensable ally. Cloying attempts at affection and desperation are your enemies. There is nothing you can say or do to change her mind. If she does change her mind, it will be on her terms and her schedule – period. No pressure also means NO ULTIMATIUMS such as “you have one month to make a decision, or I am going to file for divorce.” This is a very bad idea. You will likely get it. Keep your mouth shut and back off.

3. When you are together ALWAYS AGREE, keep your mouth shut and LISTEN intently to every word she says: When you do get chance to talk to her or spend time with her – and you will – ALWAYS try your hardest to be upbeat, positive, friendly, considerate and DON’T get angry or talk about your feelings and what YOU WANT. Stay positive and don’t bring up the relationship unless she does, and when she does, keep your trap shut and listen to everything she says. Want to stay out of trouble? Listen. Want to get back in the house? Listen. Want to have a long loving relationship? Listen. My God, listen till the blood drips from your ears; listen till you want to scream out a solution; listen until she has nothing left to say and when she’s done, shut up and listen some more. Women are the caregivers and if you want her to give, you’d better do some caring. Not only should you listen, but when you do speak, always AGREE. Validate what she says, and don’t argue. For example, “you were a complete jerk, you hurt me, you never spent time with our family, you’re selfish, you have two heads, the moon is made of chocolate etc etc…” I don’t care what she says, just say…”You’re right…I was a jerk, I am sorry and I screwed up…and your right the moon is made of chocolate and I have two heads. If you want me to leave, I understand, your right, maybe it would never work, but I do love you and I’ll always be here for you and the kids if you need anything.” It works people. When she starts talking about your failures and why the marriage was so horrible, much of which is probably true, she is waiting for you to react in anger, hurt, frustration, and let you say horrible things to her, blame her for everything and storm out of the house because this is the type of behavior that validates her thoughts, expectations and rationalizations for walking away. Such behavior will make her feel better. When you DON’T act like this, it will throw her for a loop and she will be completely bewildered. Try it. But you have to be consistent. As aside, this doesn’t mean you should be a doormat. This simply means listening and validating her feelings, thoughts and emotions regarding you, her and the marriage. It does not mean that you have to accept ridiculous requests regarding things such as financial or property issues. If these come up, respectfully and calmly disagree. In fact, you can use them to buy time. For example, you might say: “that is not acceptable to me at this point, and it is something we can negotiate or work out in a few weeks, but I am sure we can find an amiable middle ground. I don’t want you and the kids to be a bad position. Remember I am your best friend regardless of what happens.”

4. Change (do the 180s) and don’t tell her you have or are changing: Now this one is actually as important as the first one because if don’t make some changes, then you will be back in the same boat soon enough. Also, the changes will make you happier. In my case, I had to do some serious soul searching and self analyzing that included counseling and joining a support group for sexual addiction (i.e., online pornography). Both have helped me immensely. Now…you cannot tell your wife that you are or have changed. Words don’t mean sh** especially to our estranged spouses. Actions speak louder than words, and make sure the changes and self realizations are genuine. She will be watching even if you don’t realize it; and your behavior will be scrutinized very closely. She is examining everything under a microscope under high magnification, and please don’t try and B.S. or manipulate her. Women hate it when they perceive that they are being manipulated in a relationship. She will see right through it like panes of glass…trust me on this one. In some cases, they will get really pissed when you start making changes and start cater wallowing about why you didn’t do these things before you separated and cause everyone so much pain…etc. etc. “why did it take this for you to realize you needed some help.” Let them say it….respond with something like “men are insulated and sometimes it takes something really devastating before we realize our shortcomings” and this is true of course.

5. “Get a life” (GAL) or at least act like you are getting a life and doing “just fine:” Go to the gym, go hiking, take trips, go for a walk, take classes. You get the idea. They are not going to want to come back to you until they can see that you are strong enough to survive without them, and anyway, doing things might make you feel better. In my case, only the trips really helped and in general I felt pretty crappy regardless of what I was doing. BUT, don’t let them know this. Don’t show it. Fake it if you have to. If you are doing fun and interesting things, they will wonder about it, and probably wish they were doing them with you. However, as is the case with your 180s, it may piss them off. I remember my wife saying something like “oh, now you are having fun and doing all these wonderful and positive things that you would never do with me...guess my love wasn’t enough.” Let them say it, shut up and keep doing what you are doing because it is getting their attention. If anything, say something like “you would love for them to join you but are not going to push because you are respecting their need for space and time.” What about “going dark?” You have to be careful with this one because it can backfire depending upon your situation. In mine, it was delicate because one of her complaints was that I was too distant in our marriage. So I had to be careful here, but it does help somewhat. However, when she called or emailed during dark periods, I was always there to answer the phone or respond to the email ASAP.

Hope this helps and good luck to you all. I know it sucks, but hang in there. Things will get better regardless of what happens with your current situation. The most important thing I learned was to back off, give her space, detach whatever you want to call it without appear to abandon her or my child. This is the hardest thing to do, but it is absolutely necessary if you want success.