Plank removed from my eye, too late for WAW? 6

[Heimlich]

Just noticed Last thread locked, not much to report anyway until today.

Casey, my youngest is getting very clingy as the reality of the separation kicks in. That pretty much sucks.

On the R front, as OT keeps saying, there ain't no R. I think I'm done.
1. Forwarded photos of herself with OM from her work to her hotmail address in late may and mid june. She said they were old pictures. Forwarded date was may 27 and june 22 of this year.
2. She's spent tons of time on the phone with him in August.

I inadvertantly saw both of these things. The first, when I was trying to straighten out a credit card, jointly owned, that I was going to start using for me. The account was in her name, so I forwarded the change of password and junk to her hotmail, which was open on our PC. I noticed photos of the girls that I hadn't seen. Was scrolling up to look for more when I saw the photos of OM. Shock.
The second was a joint phone bill, which she had been hiding from me. Call that one pseudo-snooping.

3. Today, all out snooping. Needed to use the restroom on the way to gym and stopped at the house as the closest spot. For some reason, was compelled to go upstairs and paw through my W's drawers (literally, found a sample pack of birth control pills in her undies drawer). I have never done this before and wish to God I hadn't now. Three of the pills were taken. I've been fixed. Maybe she's using it to control her period, which used to be heavy and has been greatly variable in the past, however, why would it be hidden in her underwear drawer in that case?

So, yes, OT, you were right. Hooray, my W is almost certainly having or planning to continue her A with OM.

Sent her an email, asking her to just tell me one way or the other if she's seeing him romantically. Told her that either way I love her but the uncertainty is eating me alive. Her reply, "I'm no longer entertaining these questions." Why the hell can't she provide me the simple courtesy of a simple yes or no? I need to hear it from her. She's denied it verbally for a number of months (I've asked 3 or 4 times since the second ILBNILWY bomb). I can't do this if she's going to see him. I just can't. The thought of this "man" tucking my girls to sleep twists my stomache.

As of now, DBing as it is and properly should be understood, is all about me. I'm going to remain friendly and cooperative with her, but we are no longer friends. Friends don't hurt each other and lie to each other like this.

For now, I think I'm done. Maybe she'll come to realize in a few months or longer that I never was that poor of an option. Maybe we'll even reconcile at that distant point. For now, if the circumstantial evidence that is pointing toward the A direction is true; I'm done (though, technically, it's not an A. I know that.)

A shame. We really could build a beautiful life together.

Thanks for the support over the past few months to all of you. Not sure how often I'm going to be here in the next few days or beyond.

Best to all,

BD

[Gone Dancin']

Sorry Heim,

The difficult thing about snooping is that sometimes you find information that you don't want to find, and this causes you to have great difficulty in doing all of the things necessary to have any chance of reconciling with your S. This new info you've discovered has made you more stressed out and less interested and motivated to do what is necessary to draw your W back. It caused you to more or less confront her about the OM again, and you got the response that you should've expected.

Heim, let this OP concern go. I know it's hard and is devastating to you right now, but you honestly need to let it go. That R will run its course, and you need to back off of it completely so it can. Your meddling in it will only cause it to get stronger and thereby prolong its inevitable demise. That R began in an unhealthy, immoral way, and the odds are HUGE that it will not last in the long run. She will eventually hit rock bottom, and when she does and she sees you looking good, being happy, strong, confident, independent, etc, she going to be drawn back to you, thinking to herself, "Damn! What was I thinking?!"

For now, I think I'm done.

I've seen this from you enough to know that you're not done. You've been emotionally wounded again, but I know you're not dead to this sitch. Just back off and be Heim, for Heim, and that is it. Show her an emotionally strong man who will be okay (better than okay -- great!) with or without her.

I'm sure sorry for your discovery, Heim. I know it hurts like hell, and the thought of someone else replacing us in the lives of our kids is gut-wrenching too. I've felt that way too. When you wrote that I remembered that exact feeling when I had it. However, it gets better, and you will eventually come to realize that you are the only one that can ever be their Dad. You are the only one that can show them so much love, be there for them through thick and thin, etc. Remember that -- this guy or any other guy has nothing on you regarding your role as a Dad.

Take care, brotha -- if you need a break from here then take one. I took a bit of a brief vacation from here and it was much needed. Do for you -- we'll be here if/when you need us.

GD

Will you still entertain the idea of a DB ski trip? I'd love to get together with you and have one hell of a time! I was even entertaining the idea of a college bowl game day DB event, or Superbowl event...

Oh, and sorry about your Saints

[Nugget]

H, you should change your name to "The Backslide King". It's almost like you enjoy it. Why in the heck would you even think about going to her house to use the bathroom? It's like you went there wanting to find something. You seem to be working just as hard to justify to yourself that it is over as you are trying to keep it together. D*mn boy, stop flip flopping and pick a direction and walk the walk.

[Sara]

BD,

I don't get the part about technically it's not an affair. Of course it's an affair. You are legally married to her, he isn't. And yes, stop asking questions you know the answer to. It's always a little amazing that the LBS believes the lies of the WAS. The affair was almost certainly physical before she ever started working on you to move out. Lying is just what they feel they have to do to get their way. And they will do anything to get their way.

He won't tuck your girls in. You will always be their only father. If she marries him, he will keep his distance from your children. She'll minister to them, not him.

IMHO it's just as well you found the evidence. There is no point being strung along by her lies and manipulation. At least you can see the situation through your own two eyes, and not thru the mask she tries to put on you.

Document. You should have proof of the affair if you end up in court. Even if you don't, her knowledge that you no longer believe her BS evens the playing field somewhat. You are no longer hers to manipulate.

Don't be too bitter. You shouldn't even be surprised. This isn't 9th grade. Adults have sex, it doesn't take long for a relationship to go there.

[Heimlich]

Thanks, all three of you.

Sara, I don't think she's trying to manipulate me, but trying to keep me from getting my feelings hurt. What she doesn't understand is that not knowing is worse than knowing. Plus, I feel like a fool, looking for hopeful signs, if she has her head so far up OM's ass that his breath stinks when she burps. Of course, you know what, maybe it isn't what it seems. Maybe it's all innocent. Probably not, but who knows.

We've already been through mediation and I have no intention of changing the terms we've already worked out.

The reason I say is that technically it's not an A is that we are only legally married. There's no real M any longer in the sense of two people committed to each other's happiness. The fact that she's moving on with him, if that's the case, is tremendously hurtful. I know it reflects more on her poor decision making than on me, but, christ, it hurts.

Nugget,
I was about to wet myself. I had to stop and it was closer than anywhere else and no secluded trees in site. Going upstairs to her room, yeah, that's a huge backslide. However, dammit, I'm tired of being lied to. If she's going to see him and feels that she can build a life with him, why does she feel it necessary to hide it from me? I'm going to find out eventually, I'd rather know now than find out 3 months from now that the woman I love, still, and am trying to nudge back towards me is with someone else.

GD,

Yes, still interested in a ski event. Same stipulations, financial mostly, but definately interested. Yes, I know that if she is having the continued A, then she's just got to go through it. However, I have the right to know. I can't control her dating choices, if she chooses that, but if she's seeing him, I feel that I have a right to know. Especially since she sees me still in love with her. I've been doing my best not to push, not always effectively, but I think she owes me the truth here. I could handle, "BD, I'm going to see him again. I know it hurts, but I thought you had the right to know." I could respect that, at least the honesty behind it. The continued deceit, that's what I have trouble with.

Going to read up on the LRT, because I'm there. I still love her and if she said to me when I pick up the girls, I've been seeing him as more than a friend over the summer, but I'd like to give it a go with you now, I would. I understand how she got to where she is. If she's going to get with him now, after all that I've tried to share with her (in the early stages of DB when I didn't get it very well). She knows how I feel. She's seen me begin to change. She's acknowledged that she's never totally tried. She knows she's hurting our girls. She knows that I'm committed to her. If she still understands all of that and still decides to go to a man who had affairs with at least two married women (one while still married, though separated), then I don't know if I'm going to be there when this thing crashes and burns. Plus, I've a feeling it's going to last for a good 6 months, at least. That means he'll be introduced to my girls.

I know that I will never be replaced as their father. I'm a good daddy. But having him in their lives is going to confuse and hurt them, especially when the R crashes and takes my W down with it.

And, yeah, the Saints. Eeesh. It's one thing when you expect them to stink.

Bd

[Gone Dancin']

(((Heim)))

Stay strong, brotha -- I know this is tough on you right now! Water off a duck's back, my friend. Hold your head high, and don't believe anything she says and only half of what she does. Indifference is your attitude when you communicate with her -- pleasant indifference.

Nugget is right about picking a course of action and sticking with it. You haven't been helping yourself with your current choices to have R talks, bring up OM, etc. You are so wise, Heim -- you know what you need to do. Quit letting your emotions overshadow your reason and what you know to be the best action to take. Maybe this new info will finally allow you to back up and see what you have to do. And please -- don't bring up what you found to her. It will look horrible from her perspective. You once again entered the house without telling/asking her, and you snooped through her underwear drawer. That knowledge alone will push her WAY far away at this point. She might even change the locks or just tell you it's over right then and there. Keep this info to yourself, and be content with just knowing that you can't believe anything she says.

Again: (((((Heim)))))

I'm here for you, buddy -- email me sometime if you need to talk: [e-mail]

GD

[Heimlich]

For all of the new folks who want to learn about the dangers of pushing, go back to my 4th thread. Pushing the R talk is dangerous and stupid. Don't.

[oldtimer]

No, it is not "innocent."

She does not want you in her private life. So, stay out of it. And stay out of her house uninvited.

This is all you need to know, regarless of what she is doing with whom, you are NOT in a monogomous committed R. You cannot change that right now.

Base your choices on those brute FACTS. The details of the kinds of sex acts shared with whomever are irrelevant. They are only relevant IF there is an R that includes monogomy and commitment that needs to be worked out. There is not such an R right now.

And no, I'd say you aren't anywhere near done.

[Heimlich]

I just feel like a total and complete dumbass.

No, I'm not done. I deeply love this woman. I've gotta figure out some way to let this go. You are absolutely right, OT. I know you are. I understand it. I know it. I knew it even before you pointed it out to me. Still, I just keep alternating my feet for target practice, don't I?

I don't know what attracted you to comment on my sitch, but I do appreciate it. I'm giving her my key when I pick up the girls today. Maybe that'll start the atonement process.

She sent me another email, to paraphrase, "I've been telling you no, but you won't listen." I know, I know. Everything that everyone has been saying about pressure is true.

I just need to be me for a while and not be around her. It's just the hardest thing that I've ever done and I'm not doing it well.

BD

[Gone Dancin']

I just feel like a total and complete dumbass.

Can you elaborate on this? Not sure what the context is...

Still, I just keep alternating my feet for target practice, don't I?

You never cease to slay me, Heim -- where do you come up with all of these metaphors?!

I don't know what attracted you to comment on my sitch, but I do appreciate it.

Simple: she loves delivering 2x4s and oftentimes you make for an easy target! Seriously though, I think OT sees most sitches, and decisions in relation such sitches, as being very black and white, and is trying to get individuals to see their sitches in such a way. Because of this black and white POV, I visualize OT as beating her head against the wall time and time again when reading threads, and thereby has somehow numbed her emotional senses. She means well and most often speaks the truth, albeit in some cruel, cold, robotic way. She is frustrated that people "dont get it."

You okay with that answer, OT?

I just need to be me for a while and not be around her. It's just the hardest thing that I've ever done and I'm not doing it well.

Just keep reminding yourself that this IS WHAT IS BEST FOR YOU AND YOUR SITCH RIGHT NOW. Everytime you feel compelled to go against this, remind yourself (or go with my tattoo idea... ).

GD