*Sigh* Look, I wasn't trying to get anybody's feathers ruffled, nor was I trying to get CAC back into flying. I got carried away (sorry about that) pointing out that *IF* it was as important to him as he's made it out to be over the years that it was possible to get a piece of the dream. Obviously, his priorities (which I am not saying are in the wrong place, in fact I think you both have your priorities in the right place) preclude that. My main point is that one has choices, no one said they were easy choices, but the choices are there.
I do make a good living now, putting my income about on par with the mean two income family in this part of the country. That's a perk of starting a successful business 12 years ago. When I started flying in 1991 however, my circumstances were far different.
I didn't say you blamed your son or your wife. Not once. I hope you might reread that and see what I was saying. And I guess if I've said it once, I'll say it again. I'm not talking about flying.
I have a horrible habit of coming across like an azzhole at inappropriate times, yes. I apologize to you... my point overrode my delivery and my methods.
You are obviously, understandably, upset. <-- that is what I am seeing. That is what I am talking about and it started much earlier in this thread... way before it took a left turn.
I'm not the only one with listening problems, Cac, and that has rather been a large part of my point all along.
It's a very deep vault of pain you carry around with you, and I'm sorry if it seemed liked I was poking you there without compassion or empathy. Given your reaction, it would seem that the cause of such pain is something that happened to you just recently.
But it didn't just happen. And that pain/anger has been there a long, long time. It sits there, just below the surface, and has no outlet, unless some azzhole woman on a BB, who you don't even know IRL, comes along and pokes and prods just a little too much.
IF that is the case... then yeah, I do see that as a problem. I know it to have been a problem in my own life. And perhaps it is of some indication to you just how deep it was if it took me 12 years to get it out. I'm stubborn as well, so I'm sure that played a part.
You're good at covering it up, Cac. Sometimes it does take an azzhole to get through. And sometimes the same azzhole needs to learn to just move on and keep her trap shut.
Cac Since my Divorce I lowered my standard of living in order to afford to help my D13 but also to attain freedom to do whatever. Living in a small RV provides no bragging rights to females but I take on jobs I consider a rocking good time and avoid jobs that bore the heck out of me. It's more fun to have fun.
Yesterday I went in for a knee consult to see if I could get to a point ever to run again. Was told you are the best it's gonna get thus many adventures expereinced in the past are closed. No worries find new ones. God is in control and he wired me up for adrendlin so it's his job but I gotta look.
This is similar to a LBS who's identity is lost to the loss of the M reguardless of who screwed up more. Hardest thing to do is create a new vision and work for it. Sometimes you just gotta dive in to find your identity and you hit a rock get out and dive in somewhere else. It's not easy or quick.
I'm off my soapbox If I'm off base I apologize.
"All I want is a weeks pay for a day's work" Steve Martin
Yes, the pain runs deep, IMO. It started with FOO and then the icing on the cake was the diagnosis of the heart defect.
I think I understand in part what "getting to the top" in flying meant to cac, and I believe that part has FOO connections. Read through the thread that Lil linked yesterday, and you'll see some clues there.
cac admitted that his father was bullyish. I know he could be a real azzhole sometimes because I've seen it first-hand. He grew up in a shame-filled home, where he was blamed for plenty of things that weren't his fault. He mother didn't protect him because she was ducking herself. He was often compared to his older sister and appeared (to his parents) to fall short most of the time. He wrote on that thread last year that he apparently still does fall short.
Then came flying. His father became interested, got his license, and bought an airplane when cac was about 10, I believe. cac became interested in flying too, and of course his father approved, which I'm sure was HUGE to cac. Now he finally had a chance to prove himself to his father.
cac received his private pilot's license on the very first day he was allowed to, by law: his 17th birthday. He had his pilot's license before he had his driver's license. He went off to college the next year. He chose to major in music because playing music in the military was one of his backup plans, should he not get a pilot slot for some reason. His father disapproved of his choice of major and the music he played. His mother, a former music teacher, simply dismissed his music (jazz) as "noodling," implying that it wasn't legitimate music like the classical music she favored. What she didn't realize was that he got all her training and then some. Learning to play jazz is taking it beyond classical to the next level. It always made/makes me angry that they didn't give him any support with his music.
I asked cac awhile back about what it meant to him to be a pilot. He replied that pilots are respected. Respect. That's what being a commercial pilot meant to him. Respect. Something that he probably never felt before. Something that even his father, who was never satisfied with anything else he did, would respect. Yes, if cac was a commercial pilot and made it to "the top," his father, and all the other naysayers, would respect him. He'd show 'em where the bear sh!ts in the buckwheat, as his grandpa used to say. And perhaps cac would respect himself. (This is my assumption, anyway.) cac had a talent for flying and had developed an impressive skill set of which he could be proud.
Fast forward to today. Yes, he can fly now. He knows that. He continued to fly his father's plane for many years after his diagnosis. Even if his medical certificate was officially pulled he could still fly with another pilot with medical cert., which would essentially turn cac's pilot's license into a learner's permit. A tough pill to swallow, though, for someone who aspired to fly Navy and commercial and would have done it if not for a cruel twist of fate. GGB said as much yesterday:
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You are not ultimately responsible for the flight, and when the chips are down you can be sure that I'm going to take the airplane if things start going badly (it is my airplane, and my ticket after all). So yeah, sort of like going on the kiddie ride after being allowed to run the place.
But that is not the whole issue, and not the purpose of the thread, or so I thought. The purpose was to get at the root of the problem, the perceived unhappiness and anger. And I think that the problem is, at least in part, that cac's self-respect was tied to an aviation career that went "poof" that day in Pensacola when the doctor put his stethoscope to cac's chest.
Thx Respect. It is what drives many of us. Felt those stethoscopes in Pensacola. I think they freeze them first cause they are cold. I never did that (ducking from all the cans being thrown my way)
"All I want is a weeks pay for a day's work" Steve Martin
With all my crap yesterday, I just caught up on this thread. I believe things can happen for a reason. Don’t know how CAC’s piloting issue plays out but I do think the arguments on this thread could be the best thing that has happened to CAC in a long time. Recall about a year ago, he and MrsCAC were at loggerheads. Now look who’s defending whom? Mmmmm? Nice turn around. They really are on the same team after all. Imagine that. Wouldn’t it be nice if CAC could find the respect that he needs (as well as the rest of us) from his wife, rather than a career? Then how much further along would he be than many of us? Good work all!
Granted, pity parties are not the ideal state to be in, but neither is sitting on the couch watching a brainless romance movie eating a tub of ice cream.
The last memorable pity party I had, after a particularly bad day at the office where I managed to send a rather blunt response *about* a difficult customer *back* to the customer instead of to my secretary where I intended it to go (the fallout was not pleasant), did not involve icecream.
I drink alcohol on average, 2 times a year (and no, I'm not averaging the first 18 years of my life in order to get a "good" number ). Anyway, instead of icecream and romance, I picked up a 6-pack of Coors and a big bag of Fritos, came home and told NOP and child not to talk to me tonight and I proceeded to have my pity party.
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Everyone has something that they regret, some have had that regret forced upon them.
Life dreams lost are extremely painful and I think will always leave a bruise on your soul. Women who want children and have difficulty conceiving can perhaps identify with Cac's sense of loss. What he has encountered was not only the equivalent of discovering you can't conceive, but you're going to have to have an immediate hysterectomy. Ouch.
I don't think that's something that you can battle once, win and be done. Every monthly period for close to 2 decades was a punch in the gut to me - probably similar to what Cac feels when one of the big boys flies over. For a couple of years, I avoided families that had new infants, not from jealousy but because the longing was so hard that I had great difficulty disguising my emotional turmoil. And lord love the well meaning friends and family who tried to encourage me when I did manage to conceive again and then proceeded to miscarry. It did not help to be told "it's for the best" or "you'll get pregnant again" or "there was probably something wrong in the first place". They meant well, but the lesson I carried away from that is to mourn with those who mourn - don't try to say something intended to make them feel better.
So, Cac and Mrs Cac - big, bruisy beer swilling Frito snacking hugs from this part of the world.
That was a fantastic post, and I can totally relate (well as much as a man can) to your life experience. Although my W was finally able to conceive and carry 3 children now, we went through a 3 year period of 2 miscarriages, a diagnosis of auto-phospholipid antibodies (spelling?) which meant twice daily shots of heparin in her gut, that horrible feeling when the hormone levels didn't go up for the second test in a row meaning she was most likely carrying a deceased child, my heart breaking listening to her tell how she was the only person to see her child when he/she finally did come out at home a few weeks later, listening to her cry on the bed for days saying "what's wrong with me", etc. And because she wanted to keep her miscarriages a private matter, having to listen to all of her relatives and friends extol her on the virtues of being a mother and why hasn't she decided to have kids yet, and on and on. And that leading to her never wanting to go out because of the fear of being confronted with well-meaning yet insensitive comments. And having her own parents tell her to "get over it."
As you say, to me the best thing to say to someone who is mourning is "there is nothing I can say to make you feel better, but I am here for whatever you need."
Chrome
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
But that is not the whole issue, and not the purpose of the thread, or so I thought. The purpose was to get at the root of the problem, the perceived unhappiness and anger. And I think that the problem is, at least in part, that cac's self-respect was tied to an aviation career that went "poof" that day in Pensacola when the doctor put his stethoscope to cac's chest.
The anger he showed earlier points to that and to something else. He wasn't just annoyed because the rest of us (including yours truly... sorry about that) thought that he was forbidden to pilot any plane at all and was upset at being stranded on the ground, when what he was really after was the respect that comes with being entrusted with other people's lives and expensive equipment as a military or commercial pilot. He was angry because he felt accused of wallowing in self-pity, and I think his sensitivity to that accusation comes from a frustration with himself at not being able to move past it and not having managed to find another purpose that gets him the same self-respect.
Unfortunately, you can't just push things like that out of your mind and be rid of them. He's got to see and feel, deep down, respect for himself for deeds and abilities other than piloting, get that same feeling from cultivating skills and achieving mastery in other fields. It's not easy to find those other fields, or to master them, and it's not a sign of weakness or stupidity to take a long time to manage these things, especially if he spent some of that time trying to suppress his "lost" feelings instead.
a fine and enviable madness, this delusion that all questions have answers, and nothing is beyond the reach of a strong left arm.
). Anyway, instead of icecream and romance, I picked up a 6-pack of Coors and a big bag of Fritos, came home and told NOP and child not to talk to me tonight and I proceeded to have my pity party.