Thanks K. The long suffering parent rings a bell. One thing I asked my H was how long was he going to go on living like this ( a secret life), and he said that he got something out of thinking himself the martyr ( even though he was the one having the A). And that is very much his mother...the martyr. And it's weird, because as the betrayed spouse, I don't feel martyr-like, when maybe I should...it's just not my personality.
Well I guess it is that old entitlement thing again. Your H apparently felt entitled to something because somewhere he felt he had a raw deal. Until he confronts whatever thinking of that variety led to this he won't know why he did what he did.
There is not so much a need for you to feel martyred. I think it is important for you to be at least a little p*ssed. Otherwise, your ego isn't too healthy. KWIM? It is funny, my Mom was cheated on by my Dad many years ago. He took full responsibility for it and they healed from it. She doesn't bring it up often but once she did say that the part that she owned was that she had always felt entitled to him thinking she was "it" and that she didn't know she needed to work on things too. I don't know what he thought he was entitled to but I guess he figured it out and fixed it. She is clear now what part of that was "his" and what part was "hers". She isn't afraid to show him her anger now and that, in part, came out of no longer being afraid of what "might" happen - what "might" happen already did once and they lived.
Lil, It went on for over a year, starting out as friends for months, and then ending as friends who couldn't let go of each other.
K, I do have my martyred moments, but most of the time my sadness will turn into depression. And I have been so on guard of preventing that from happening. I do have my pissed emotiones, and every other emotion in the book. But the environment here is so much better than it had been in years. He has gotten back to himself and it's wonderful to see and feel. I don't know what the eventual outcome will be, but right now I want us to work, and so does he.
It's always nice to see a woman on here, who is very open about what she is thinking, where she is emotionally, and what has happened in her marriage.
Seems like to some degree, your lack of sex is largely a problem of your own making.
Comments on the one paragraph you wrote amoungst the longer stuff:
Quote:
Why don't I let it be known that I would like a good screw? Several reasons (a)we aren't on birth control and need to discuss future procreation - I'm a no and he's a "if it happens it happens", (b)don't want a pity screw and (c)the bigger issues loom larger than my libido right now and (d)I wanted to see what would happen if I just quit trying and here we are.
Sex is a really important part of marriage. you are doing a whole bunch of things around sex, that in some ways, boil down to you exerting control over your marriage, in negative ways.
yes, discussing how you will deal with a pregnancy is important...but in some ways... that's why people get married! people who arent willing to deal with children, shouldnt be getting married and having sex anyway. (or they should get themselves sterilized).
You claim you arent having sex because you both dont agree on whether or not to have more children, and you're the one who doesnt want more children.
But here's the thing: you have already taken control in that area. You have implemented the "ultimate birth control"; you're not having sex at all. You have taken complete control of that situation now; So claiming to not do it out of respect for your different wishes, is deceitful.
As far as "you wanting to see what would happen".... well, now you know the answer. So what's the problem. It semi-makes sense as a reason to start an "experiment" to not initiate sex. The experiment is now complete. Time to start having sex again, if that was all it was.
For the "bigger issues" excuse... Come on now. If married people stopped having sex every time there were "big issues" hovering overhead, the birth rate in married couples would probably be close approaching zero.
So, that's 3 out of the 4 "reasons" you gave. As for the last one: examine the following hypothetical situation:
W: I'm horney. I'd like a good screw H: Ok dear. Would you like ties with that? (ya know.. "ties", instead of "fries".... never mind...)
Is this:
a) a considerate husband showing love for his wife b) a "pity screw"
Answer: what should be the most important to you, is weather(a) is true or not, wouldnt you say?
What the heck is so bad about "pity"? About a husband saying, "I'm sorry that you feel so bad: what can I do to make you feel better" ???
Bottom line: you have sexual needs (presumably). It's your husband's duty to try to fulfil them. Whether or not he has "issues" to deal with, may or may not be true., But you are chosing to mess up your marriage, by withholding sex.
The irony is that most people who withhold, withhold it from their partner. But you have chosen to withhold it from YOURSELF.
It sounds like maybe you're giving yourself a reason to ditch this marriage, even though you've "decided" not to do that again. Or that you're having a "pity party" for yourself, even though you are verbally distaining such things
Even if that isnt your intention... it seems like your choices, will directly make you less happy with your marriage.
Quote:
We have been married 4 yrs, are psychology professionals
It is said that doctors make the worst patients
Quote:
do think that H is having a sort of MLC.
It's kinda funny you said that, Karen.. because I'm reading some signs of a mini-MLC in you.
you dont know what you want
you dont remember what it was like to be happy in your marriage
you're 40
little things like that, that make me ponder that perhaps you are maybe not going through a "crisis"... but instead, maybe a "mid life re-examination" of yourself?
you started this thread, by mentioning that your husband referencing that he "misses [being with you]"
5 months is a horribly stressful time for parents, last time I remember. maybe he's either being considerate of you (in HIS mind), or just too tired to normally think about initiating.
instead of inventing "reasons" not to have sex...
never mind about RJ feeling like a martyr... How about you try stepping out of your OWN "martyrdom", and go tell your husband that you want to be ----ed like a wild thing, and you want it now dammit
Someone said, that even medeochre sex, is better than no sex.
I totally understand, and empathise, with feeling of "wanting to be wanted" during sex. Of wanting to feel attractive, and so on. But withholding sex (even from yourself) just makes your marriage less enjoyable for both of you. It's not having any positive effect, now is it?
[wow.. this turned out long. Hope you find something of use to you in it]
My current status: june 2006. Wife ran out and filed D. Finalized Jan 11, 2010, after 12.5 years M. 3 wonderful sons caught in the middle
Oh my goodness, Dom. Are you familiar with karen's story from the last few years? From what you wrote, I'm guessing not. Don't draw conclusions from what she has posted recently. There's a whole lot of history here...
You know, I gotta say, I think I'm seeing another double-standard, here, and I find it amusing. While the learned ones like Schnarch and MWD et al. say that this ld/hd thing is 50/50 male/female, and then provide studies to back up that assertion, we don't seem to be able to break away from this cultural belief that it simply isn't so...if a woman is ld, its not really "abnormal", and is the natural and understandable result of overwhelming stresses in life, and blah blah blah, yadda yadda yadda. But if a guy presents the same...well, he must have some severe and advanced psychosis, or he's gay. (not that there's anything wrong with that).
at the same time...I gotta say, I just don't get why a guy would deny his hot wife. but that's because I'm an hd guy.
What if I were to suggest that ld women (or those merely "uninterested") were lesbians? Ha! can you imagine the fallout?? like a scene in a sports-bar...any girl that turns you down.."pfft. lesbian!"
As for the "confusion" thing...I'm reminded of a Carlos Mencia skit, where he was dressed up in a foam animal/character costume, doing an "inappropriate" kids show, singing this song: (to the tune of "If you're happy and you know it...") If you think you might be gay, then, you're gay (clap! clap!) If you think you might be gay, then, you're gay! (clap! clap!)
karen, I’ve been meaning to ask you something. Do you experience this with your H (it’s something I’ve noticed with my bf)? To approach this obliquely… with most people, you feel like the longer you know them and the more positive experiences, or deep experiences you have with them that it… how to put this? It’s not necessarily that it strengthens the bond between you, but it widens it, kwim? You feel like you have some history and you feel that you know they will be supportive of something because they have a deeper knowledge of you than a stranger.
Let’s say you go out on a date with a guy for the first time. You two hardly know each other. You go to a party given my mutual friends. He doesn’t know what you like to drink. He doesn’t know you have a weakness for New York Cheesecake. He doesn’t know that you love to hear football stories, AND a rehash of last night’s episode of Leno. So being with him is like being with a stranger, because he is a stranger. He doesn’t stand with his arm around you or signal you with his eyes that he’s ready to go.
BUT after dating this guy for years, AND possibly marrying him, when you go to a party, he still doesn’t put his arm around you. He stands around talking football and Leno and ignores you. He honestly doesn’t seem to register that Look from you that says you’re ready to go. It’s like you haven’t built up any common ground. Well, that’s too categorical a way of putting it… there’s some common ground, but it’s still a lot like being out with someone you’ve just met, instead of someone who supposedly knows you well.
To relate to your sitch… after TWO children (the second one he REALLY wanted) and much history, one would think you and your H would be drawing closer instead of him drifting away. Where is the bonding, the mortar, the cement.
When I’m out with my bf at the college choir or at the synagogue (which is where we mostly are among others these days), you wouldn’t know to look at the way he relates to me that I’m special to him. He walks into choir late and doesn’t acknowledge me. The other night after the service, several women crowded around him to rave about his carrot cake recipe (it IS the best carrot cake in the world), and I was standing right there. He is so good looking that they were positively drooling over him. That would have been a good time for him to put his arm around me and make some comment about how he made the cake for my last birthday or something. I tried to enter into the convo, but he basically ignored me, so I walked away.
It’s almost like he considers himself very independent, and in your H’s case, considers himself the patriarch, but essentially single and free to do what he wants without much or a nod in your direction.
I didn’t mean to make this so long… I don’t know if I’ve even made my point… that after so much history and so much water over and under the dam, you expect some deeper connection that actually manifests in public… or something…
It's not a double standard. It's also not "normal" for an adult woman to go a whole year or longer without being interested in sex.
Oh. ok. just making sure, cuz...I thought it was. maybe I spent too much time on that other mb where they actually celebrate it, and drum-off anyone who dissents. anyway...just wanted to add, I tried Karen's strategy of "not bothering, just to see what would happen". got about the same results. so...now, we know.
You're making a joke of this. That's kind of icky. sorry, didn't mean to do that. perhaps I'm too close...this actually happened in my family. anyway, whilst Carlos delivered his message in his signature crass, low-brow fashion, I think the sentiment is probably accurate. "if there was ever any question in your mind...that's your answer".
