Is it time to cut him off?

[Trixi]

Thread lock. Link to last Thread Here.

Class was really good. I have another one this morning. Went to "our" bar last night and the 'gang' was all there, so it was nice. Our mutual guy friend (MGF) is celebrating his bday there tonight, so I guess I'll be back there tonight. I don't think H knows about the celebration. MGF is coming with us to the concert on Wednesday and is still rooting for us to reconcile.

I never did get a call yesterday from H. >:(

If he hadn't said that we were "dating" then I wouldn't expect a phone call as much as I do.

I am smack dab on the fence regarding cutting him off; part of me thinks it's the right thing to do; the other part thinks I could be 'forcing his hand' prematurely.....

[Trixi]

Class was good.

I did try to reach H on his cell to tell him about the celebration tonight, but he didn't answer. I didn't bother to leave a message.

This is so f'd up.
I am feeling sick to my stomach wondering if he went out "platonically" with someone and it morphed into more. I haven't spoken to him since Wednesday.

He had said that we really needed to improve our communication; not speaking since Wednesday seems antithetical to that desire.

[BryanS]

He had said that we really needed to improve our communication; not speaking since Wednesday seems antithetical to that desire.

I so hear you there. I don't understand how the WAW can say things and then immediately contradict themselves. Yes they're confused and yes they're just human but is it too much to ask for a little consideration. Not spousal consideration but human decency consideration. No DB advice here, just venting and understanding.

To get back to you, what does this do for you in terms of your cutting him off dilema? I would think that this is a pretty good indication that maybe you should. Not out of spite, but out of protection. Maybe this hurt you a little more than it would have if you hadn't been intimate with H and so if this is the kind of behavior you can expect from him, it seems reasonable to me that you'd want to protect your sanity a little better. Of course, maybe the right answer is to ask for a time when he can talk to you and let him know that your getting mixed signals and could he please explain as this is making you somewhat uncomfortable with the physical part of your R. I don't know, that's a big convo check to write and you should make sure you have enough in the bank to cash it. That's something only you know.

[Trixi]

He just called. (He saw the missed call on his cell.)
I told him about our friend's celebration and he was like "oh. Well then we should go."

I asked what the 'plan' was and he said "Oh, I just have a couple more errands to run and then I planned to be over." He seemed "normal".

It's those gosh darned expectations. I think that you are right, BryanS, that I am probably more hurt than I would have been if we weren't being physical.

I'll have to see how he acts once he is here. I feel so nervous right now.

[BryanS]

Deep breaths. Think zen thoughts. Happy and free.

[Trixi]

Yesterday he told me that he was going to go to Florida for Thanksgiving. That makes me SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO sad.

When I said "Wow. that makes me sad that you're not going to be here" he said "I'm not sad at all. I'm glad to be doing something different!!" When I was visibly hurt by that, he continued with "I am tired of always being with your family; your mom always makes everything such a big deal. And I'm not so fond of so&so." I explained that my intent behind the statement was "I am sad *we* won't be together and so I took it VERY personally" and he said "well, I didn't mean that I don't want to be with *you*. I just don't want to be here. No,I'm not ready to take you along."

At the end of dinner he said something like "Well, you're not very attached to me anyway."
I was gobsmacked. I couldn't believe it.
He adds "I know you love me and all that. But you seem able to move on just fine."
My eyes must have been big as saucers as I say "WTF are you talking about?!"
Him "I don't know why you're offended. I'm just saying you aren't that attached to me. You're not that attached to your D either."
More looks of confusion from me and I say "um...I don't understand. You may as well be saying "Gee, you know that horn that grows out of your forheard?" because this is not making sense."
Him "well, you don't seem that upset or anything."

Not sure if I screwed up the whold DB thing or not- but here is what I said-
"Regarding D, you know that she keeps people at arms length. She has been making stupid decisions for awhile and I am not able to be close like I would like. I love her a great deal, but she seems to want to do it "her way". Regarding YOU. Why do you think I never asked where you live?"
Him "Well, you already know because of the bill that came."
Me" No. When I saw it had an address I stuffed it back in the envelope before I could register it. Why do you think that is? It's because I am VERY attached. I don't want to drive by, pound on your door in a weak moment. I don't let you know just how much this affecting me because I thought you didn't need the burden of my emotions." (he interjects that it is true that he probably doesn't need my emotions.) I continue "I hate this. I do my best to insulate you from my feelings; funny because I thought I was doing a piss-poor job. I guess I am better than I thought."
He did say again that it is probably good not to dump my feelings on him since he is confused. He also criticized some mistakes I made while the kids were growing up. H "You never wanted to go do things as a family!" Me "You never went to the 4-H things" H "That's because I hated 4-H-that was you and your mother's thing. YOU never wanted to go do stuff like we did when we first started dating [as a family]. All I have ever wanted is a close knit family and it always gets ripped away from me and torn apart" I retort "Oh! so, now you're going to rip it apart even worse?!" Him "I have no choice!" Me "Oh hell no! You most certainly do have a choice. I am not going to accept that statement. You ARE making a choice. You are taking the pieces of the family that remain and tearing them into itty bitty confetti pieces. This affects more than just the kids and us. It impacts my parents, my grandparents, and our friends."
Him "okay. You're right."

We did get some good fighting done. More babble from him: "We're too similar" "We're too different" "You're too introverted" "I'm too introverted" "I need to work thru the lonliness" "I need to decide if I can't live without you." "I am bringing up these things because they brought us to where we are today." "I am not holding those things against you." "I am mad and resentful about those things."

He left early afternoon today. There were other things said that made me feel like throwing in the towel. But then other things that gave me some hope. I am angry that he is basically leaving me no choice but to go to Plan B. I am catching myself saying "omg I hate you." Not to him. Never. But when I am alone and I am reminded of something he has done that hurts.

Before he left he said he would try to get next Thurs and Fri off (after Wed night concert) and suggested that we could go and "do something." Also discussed what work he wants to do around the house. Tentative plan: we will work on garage and doing some winter prep Thurs/fri. Leave saturday afternoon and stay over someplace til Sunday night.
Oh-I told him about the intuitive; invited him to an appt on Thursday and he just might go. We'll see. I didn't tell him that the intuitive told me to cut him off sexually.

[Trixi]

Oh- I just remembered one of the really negative things that was said.

We were discussing D's options w/regard to her pregnancy. She is only about a month along. Both H and I don't really believe in abortion;{no political debates allowed here} but H was saying that in D's case, maybe she should get one. (FYI, D says no way to that; she couldn't live with herself if she did. So it's not an option in her mind at all.) Anyway, I was surprised that he was suggesting that, especially since I know/knew what his beliefs were. He was saying stuff like "it's just some cells right now; not recognizable as a baby" etc.

So, I wanted to go about the question in a different way to see what his 'true' beliefs were. (ie, when does "life" begin.) I say "okay, well, what if *I* got pregnant?"
H "well, that's different a little different. We can afford a baby. <pause> but I would probably want you to get an abortion given our situation. <pause> of course, it would be up to you since it's your body."

Last year on our anniversary he was talking about us having a baby. This year he would want to kill it. Made me realize that he must view our chances of reconciling as pretty darn slim.

[SallyM]

(((HUGS))) agent99, so sorry things are not going well. I think you are becoming more clear on things you want, though, and on things that need to change. at least that's what I hear. I'm sorry he doesn't seem up for any of it, but maybe he will someday. in the meantime, keep that focus on yourself.

the abortion thing is tough. personally, an I am in no way debating the issue here, I am pro-choice...for others. I don't think I could abort a child my H and I conceieved, unless something was terribly wrong with it. We had a bit of a scare this past spring, post bomb. not a big scare, but my cycles are like clockwork and I was a couple of days late. the only time in my life I was late before was when I was pg, and H and I get pg pretty easily (even got that bonus kid last time) so I was worried. H said abortion absolutely, he doesn't want any more kids, even if things were okay between us. I looked at him like he was crazy. I personally feel like my family is complete, but if something happened, I would not hesitate to go forward with the pg.

sorry, going on about myself here, just wanted to say I understand. my h is pro choice, but is also someone who was so excited to start a family, pushed to start it, was thrilled both times I became pg, the idea that he would so easily end a life we created just floored me.

[BryanS]

Oh damn, I know how much that hurts, to have the mat pulled out from under you like that. I'm so sorry.

Couple of observations that might help you though: you got into it pretty good with him and he ended up saying "Okay, you're right". That's as good a sign as him saying he misses you in my book. Not sure how he was before but giving up ground like that (unless it was just an appeasement to get you off his back) looks to me like he's being pretty honest in his attempt to figure some things out. Given that you know he's confused, some of the other statements shouldn't be too shocking. Confused people say all kinds of things that don't make sense. But, again, he sounds like he's honestly looking at things and not using the confusion as cover for bad behavior the way others seem to. you clarified your position without getting shot down and found that he might actually be trying to figure some things out. This is good news.

[Trixi]

Thanks Morgan.
Yeah, it was pretty surprising to me.

I suppose that there is a teeny weeny itty bitty chance that he would suggest an abortion for me regardless of our sitch; ie since we are pretty old to be starting over AND now is a great time to be going out and traveling, etc.
I think you said it well - it would be a life *we* created. It would be hard for me to just consider it "a bunch of cells."