I was nuking up my wonton soup from yesterday and noticed that, music still blaring, H had been in the bathroom for a long time. I pushed open the door to find him sprawled on the floor. I knelt down and shook him gently, asking if he was okay. He was non-responsive at first, but when I asked, loudly, twice if I needed to call 911, he roused slightly and murmured “no”. I asked him if he’d taken the half xanax (I brought it to him during his panic attack, he's taken a half tab a few times before)and he said yes.
I suppose that on an empty stomach with who knows how many ounces of rum afterwards, plus three cigarettes... opened package, some missing on the kitchen table right now. Perhaps the “smoke in his hair” from the other morning may well have been a quick smoke while he was out chipping the ice. I asked at the time and if so, he lied about that too.
(Neither of us have ever smoked cigarettes, but since “the bomb” have taken halls and bummed smokes off of pals when partying )
Who is this man I am married to? Part of me feels empathy for him right now, reminiscent of my night crawling the floor, puking my guts out, wrenching sobs…November 27th 2k2. He scraped me off the floor that night, but that was it. Left in me in my lonely bed sobbing my heart out. I woke to a heart-pounding hallucination of the two of them on the phone. Part of me is just numb.
Back to the bathroom: I got him sitting up. He said he was going to be sick, get out of here. So I did. I waited until he was back on the couch before eating my soup. Is that cold-hearted? I needed to eat.
So H fails to live up to his promise of forthrightness and honesty yet again. And again out of fear. He was so messed up, earlier: sobbing, choking, gasping, turning red, teeth clenching, having spasms…it was scary.
I kept thinking that perhaps he’d made a mistake getting that note from our Dr.today. He needs more help than I realized. Top priority: get C to refer him to a private therapist.
He appears to be pathologically fear-driven, avoidant, weak, spineless, cowardly. Harsh words, I know.
Is this the kind of man I want as a life partner? Is this something that he CAN overcome? How would I know?
Is it the depression or a basic character flaw? Sure seems well ingrained.
When he was describing how he felt trudging through the snow to send OW her black-mail money (stupid, used, weak, cursing himself, swearing “never again” etc.) I asked if it was like how he felt when K (girlfriend before me) made him hide in the closet when her ex-husband came to her apartment.
He said “Yes!”. I thought: Well you certainly haven’t grown much in 13 years, have you?
I’m so weary of these surprises. Of him redirecting the issue at me. The gall of him to question me (intently) about our friends flirting or “coming on” to me, when he still had such ghosts in his closet.
Wow, what a turn of events. I stay away for a couple of days, and look what happens. OK, here's my two cents.
About the honesty , it seems to me that you can pretty much deal with any skeletons he may have, it's just that you want to know what skeletons there are. Am I off the mark? Have you told him something along these lines? Something like "I realize there are some things you've done that you're not proud of, and I'm more than willing to forgive. But I can't forgive you covering things up any more, so it's got to stop." I don't know.
Quote: He appears to be pathologically fear-driven, avoidant, weak, spineless, cowardly. Harsh words, I know.
Is this the kind of man I want as a life partner? Is this something that he CAN overcome? How would I know?
Have you always felt this way, or just recently? If you've always felt this way, then you ask some valid questions. But if it's just recently, I'll bet it's the situation that makes you feel that way. I could be wrong, but don't tell anyone.
I know God won't give me anything I can't handle. I just wish He didn't trust me so much.
Quoting SB: I’m so weary of these surprises. Of him redirecting the issue at me. The gall of him to question me (intently) about our friends flirting or “coming on” to me, when he still had such ghosts in his closet. Full disclosure, sure. Sorry folks, just venting here.
Venting's necessary. Better here than elsewhere. Things will get better, they did before, they will again. Having the C refer a specialist is a good idea. Xanax & rum? duh. Next time don't ask if you should call 911, just do it. Might force him to get better attention. You really can't work on the R in earnest until you're both relatively stable.
Oh, BTW: Let's put a new coat of paint... On this lonesome old town, Set 'em up, we'll be knockin' em down. You wear a dress, baby, and I'll wear a tie. We'll laugh at that old bloodshot moon in that burgundy sky All your scribbled lovedreams, are lost or thrown away, Here amidst the shuffle of an overflowing day Our love needs a transfusion so let's shoot it full of wine Fishin' for a good time starts with throwin'in your line.
Better late than never, but then, you knew I knew.
-J Is the glass half full or half empty? Depends. Am I drinking or pouring?
I think Mal hit the nail on the head when she said this:
Quote: He may still think you don't trust him. He really betrayed your trust big time, and he understands the significance of that. It won't be earned easily. He was afraid I think - afraid of how many times you will forgive him for what he has done.
He may have done nothing wrong this time, actually sounds like he did a good deed, but his A has driven extreme fear into him. I dont think his lying is him trying to decieve you for bad reasons, it is done out of fear.
Quote: My H should KNOW by now that I won't "freak out", just how many more of these tests must I pass?
Let me give you an example.
Quote: When he got home, something made me ask if he'd recieved any e-mails from OW.
Quote: He said he'd not been on his e-mail, but would check it later. That didn't sit well with me, and I asked if we could check it together. H was resistant, but did give me his e-mail password.
Quote: I insisted. I said I couldn't trust him until I found out what that message was about.
Quote: I was very relieved that in our subsequent exchanges, she spoke of only a friendship, of having warned H about the OW.
You insisted, you pushed to find out, you told him you couldn’t trust him. Did you really pass the test? I would have been freaked out too. Why would you be so persistant about digging if there werent going to be reprocussions if you found out about a lie (old or new)?
Quote: After I printed out the e-mails with this latest "pal" I asked H about her.
Let me ask you this, why are you keeping this crap? Evidence and proof? Something to use against him, or throw in his face? I noticed before you were saving e-mails from OW too. My suggestion…….BURN IT ALL!!!!!
Something I had to do, and you really need to do also SB, is take a blind leap of faith. Stop checking in, start “blindly” trusting him. I absolutely had to do it for my W to open up to me at all. I think you need to also. This was a very important step in my sitch.
I reread this and realized it could sound a little harsh (just a little). Please don’t take it that way. I want to give you my .02, no matter what it is, and you can throw it in the pile of advice to take into consideration when making decisions. Hopefully it helps.
Hope your H gets to feeling better, the anxiety and such. Its gotta be rough on the both of you.
BTW, very nice rant ((((((SB))))))
FLoyd The grass is always GREENER over the septic tank.
I'm not up to date on your sitch, but saw your posts and came over here. It sounds like you have a lot on your plate and are going through some very serious things with your H.
I may be very off the mark, and I apologize if I am, but it seems like you aren't giving H a chance to suceed. H seems like a wounded bird, and I am in no means saying that he hasn't brought this on himself, but I think what you are doing is just chasing down some cheeseless tunnels. Is confronting him about the emails allowing him to deal this in his own way? It seems like you are taking care of all his dirty work.
Can you catch him doing good things? Praise him for what he does well? Ignore the bad for a bit? Do what Floyd says and take a blind leap of faith and trust him?
You sound like a very strong woman, shinybear, can you direct that strength in a different way? Being his cheerleader?
As I said, I could be off the mark, just throwing in some thoughts.
Sb -- I'm sorry for the blow. I hope that you and H. are doing MUCH better this morning. The physical response that your H. had sounds truly frightening. Is he taking care of himself? That sounds to me like the first order of business that needs to be addressed.
I think you've gotten a lot of wise advice here but I'll throw in a cent or two... You and H. have just recently had a major breakthrough -- disclosure of continued contact with ow. Seems to me like it's going to take some time for H. to shed other behaviors -- the lying, the questionable contact with other folks (not saying that the email you saw was necessarily "off limits" but you know what I mean). When you asked H. about the email, I'm sure it took him all of half a second to lie to you -- why? Because that's what he's used to, I think. And, once it was out of his mouth, it's impossible to take back.
I know how difficult it is to wonder if your H. is "up to the task" of loving you the way you want and need to be loved -- here's a thought that I had yesterday -- maybe it will comfort you too. I WILL have a relationship that is loving, intimate and faithful. Period. And, I realize that I have lots of work to do myself in order to be ready for that, to be able to have it. In the process, I will stand beside and behind my H. in the hopes that he will do whatever work he needs to do to have the same. I'm not sure I'm being clear here -- I guess that my overall message is that YOU will be OK no matter what. I promise you that. I'm not saying that it will be painfree or easy but that you will get through this strong and whole.
I love Jackie's (Dagny's) post and feel that I would be well served by reading it over and over and over again. Try to treat both you and H. with as much gentleness and compassion as you possibly can, SB. Your H. is weak or spineless...he's afraid. You can be the guardian for his fear...
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
For Willmorgan! I didn't think anyone was going to bite (Actually, you're right, I rather thought YOU would know!, even though I messed up a word in my hint lyric)
Thanks buddy, I really needed the smile this morning
Okay, how do I address all of the very valid points the rest of you have made?
U, thanks for checking in. H and I had a long discussion just the other day about "skeletons", mostly focussed on what I may or may not have "done" during our dark times.
He spoke of having "nothing left to hide" with great relief. I, of course, had precious little to hide to begin with.
When I asked him what I could do to ensure that I didn't further "enable him" (his words! he blamed my backing off, giving him space, not questioning him for "enabling" his EA ). That's when he said to be more suspicious, to question, to verify, to check. These were HIS suggestions people!
And as for his weakness and fear-based living, U, I didn't really SEE the pattern until recently. But it's been there for a LOOOONG time. I don't know, it may well stem back to (newly revealed) dysfunction in his family of origin, in which serious problems were ignored to the point that my H has no conscious memory of them!!!
U I like the way you put the "forgiveness talk"...I did ask if there were any more surprises in store for me...but it probably didn't come across in the kind manner you suggested. BTW, he said "NO".
I agree with you and MAL that this latest "LIE" was totally fear driven....It just dismays me that he still lies out of fear,and over something that is so very minor (I admire him for helping this woman through a rough patch, I told him so) after everything that happened this week!
But as someone said it probably popped out in a 1/2 second and couldn't be taken back. It is his usual mode and will probably take time, thought, and therapy to break.
Floyd, as for all the questions and pushing on my part, this is exactly what H ASKED ME TO DO!!! Totally anti-DB, I KNOW!
But as I mentioned earlier, he said that when I hauled out the duct tape, didn't raise suspicions I had, over the past half year, that I "enabled" him to continue on that path.
I felt really bad when he said that. Like he couldn't take responsibility, stand up, end things, tell me....unless I made demands and found him out...or, as things turned out both times, until the OW called and spilled the beans.
I felt like all my DBing efforts just dragged this whole thing out. I don't really believe that, frankly, if I'd acted on suspicions this way months ago, I don't know HOW it would have went down. But H says it would have all come out and he would have ended it!!!
Are you starting to see the confusing position I'm in right now?
If I back off, trust him implicitly, I may be "enabling" him to do no good. Remember, please, just how many times I've been lied to.
As for the e-mails, yep you have a point Floyd. I'm a bit compulsive when it comes to saving things...it's not like I read them over and over and ruminate, it's just something I feel compelled to do....lowers my anxiety in the moment.
Plus, I suppose, there is an edge of self-interest, in keeping "evidence" of his follies, should that help me in the dreadful possibility of a future D.
Yep H is a wounded bird right now, no doubt about it.
You asked if checking on his e-mails was allowing him to deal with this in his own way.
I understand, but perhaps reading my last few posts you'll have a better idea of where I'm coming from.
On Nov 28th the day after OW called for the first time (I knew nothing about her...but had all kinds of suspicions I hadn't voiced), H swore it was over, that he'd turned a new leaf....the new, strong, honest H who would NOT make decisions or live out of fear any longer. NO MORE LIES!
I rejoiced.
He said he was going to let his hotmail account die a natural death in 30 days (if they're not accessed they do this?). I believed him (sort of). Didn't question it.
I had some suspicions later, but said and did nothing. I was tempted to send an e-mail to that account and see if it bounced back or if H mentioned it, but I DIDN'T. I WAS letting him handle it on his own.
And how did that work out? He was back in touch with OW in two days, and in constant e-mail and phone contact with her until, geez, just a week ago .
And as for being his cheerleader...I constantly thank and praise him for stuff he does "right", the breakfasts, the chores, his singing at karaoke, his dancing, taking some steps towards finding a new job, I encourage him to explore careers that he could LOVE, hell I just bought a book on the topic for him YESTERDAY!
I tell him how much I love our renewed physical contact, I pretty much draped myself over him at Darts on Saturday night because I know that one of his complaints was that I would be too distant at social gatherings.
He told me later that this helped him deal with the fact that the two pals who gave me the goodbye kiss+ back in January were there. It sent a powerful signal that WE are back to being US.
So still confused and a little sad here. H sounded very subdued and to my ears (may be off) angry when he left to pick up some kitty litter.
I suppose it's time for some TLC on my part? But what if he rebuffs me as he did my hug last night?
)
