Granted that all the issues can not be dealt with on our own and there are many that need both to accomplish, but I am sure there are plenty that we can tackle on our own. How many things have our spouses told us in the past that they do not like or behaviors that we have had, that have pushed them away? Those are the things we need to deal with now, today. Be them behaviors of anger, control, depression, dependency, addiction, self pity, resentment, health, appearance, happiness, drive, blame, acceptance, etc. etc. The list may be endless. We obviously are not to blame 100% for where we are today, but rest assured we have all done our fair share and we need to eliminate those behaviors if we want a better R.
Bottom line is as OT stated, getting back together us useless if the issues that drove us a part to begin with still exist. To many of use that are separated make our main goal getting back together. When the goal should be getting our spouse to want to work on the R and take the steps to rebuild it. Not to get back under the same roof with the same ol problems.
“Do you want to be RIGHT or want to be LOVED” “You have to have a life to share a life with someone” “When you stop resisting, you start learning”
OT is correct in that I need to stop pursuing. She is NOT correct in that I haven't owned up to or am trivializing the problems in my M -- some my fault, some my W's. I know I've said that if she would give us a chance, I really do think we could make it. And that's true, I really do believe that. Behind that statement is the understanding that to get to what I believe would be a great R/M would require a tremendous amount of effort on both my part and my W's part. I do not think that if my W said, "Babe, move back in. I want this M to work" that things would magically be better. In fact, if a miracle happened and she said that tomorrow, I'd still stay in the apt. We need space and I need time to focus on regaining my sense of myself. I'm getting there, but I've developed some bad habits over the years. Changing them is going to take time.
I've owned up to the mistakes I made with my W in an apology I wrote to her on June 16 (my bday) this summer. When I was through, she told me that I was exactly right about everything that I had done to make her feel the way she feels. Believe me, I know I shoulder a tremendous portion of the blame for where my R with my W is now. However, I'm changing and I know that she sees it. It may very well be too late, I know and understand that.
Regarding discussing the OM, again, I want to get my thoughts in order. As everyone keeps saying, DBing is an outline, not an exact formula. I have no intention of discussing OM with my W in the near future, but it is something I want to think deeply about. I know my W. Once she embarks on a path, it's hard to change her mind. If she goes too deeply down a path with OM now, then I'm worried that it's over. Can I control her choice. No. I understand that. After a month or more of no pursuit, should I consider talking to her about that -- maybe. I don't know. Probably not. Again, I just want to think about it.
Regarding the giant doily and the beer. One of the complaints my W has about me is that I never took the initiative with anything. Noticing something and asking her if I can do that favor for her when i know it's something that bothers her is a 180 for me. Maybe I'm too dense to be saved, but that's a favor, not inserting myself into her life. Ditto on the beer, it's a friendly gesture. It's not flowers or a love letter or an offer of undying love. My W's LL, I'm about 95% sure, is acts of service. Is buying her somethign she would get for herself pursuing in this situation? Anybody else have any thougths on that?
EDITS
Quote:
We obviously are not to blame 100% for where we are today, but rest assured we have all done our fair share and we need to eliminate those behaviors if we want a better R.
Bingo on this Nugget. In the last week, I've found myself more productive at work, more creative and friendlier than I've been in a while. Optimistic as well. I'm beginning to procrastinate less and letting go of a lot of tension that had been built up for yours. I used to just be a relaxed, happy, self-confident person. I see myself really moving in that direction again, and that makes me happy.
Another thought on the OM, spurred by OT. And, I'm thinking out loud, so to speak here, so this is jumbled. I don't really feel like I'm married. My marriage is over. If we get through this to the other side and emerge again as a couple, I would love to do a recommittment ceremony because it would be like a brand new marriage. In many ways, we need to get to know each other again without anger and resentment that I know that she holds and that I have a sense I'm keeping somewhat bottled up (because if I let it out, I'm not sure I'll keep doing this.) Regardign the OM and the sentiment that we're not married. It's almost like OM and I are competing for a single woman. If I step out of the picture, that leaves the field for him. My W has also keep her feeligns about me mostly bottled up. She expressed anger when we were in counciling together and resentment, but she never said you did X, Y and Z and made me feel A, B and C. I did put those dots together on my own in my apology I mentioned earlier. My concern is that, while she's said that she feels like dating someone else would be cheating and I'm leaning toward thinking that she's not seeing him now, she is talking to him. She has said that I need space to see if I miss you. To me, that's a BS statement because if she's talking to someone else who's filling the space that I used to fill (and filled quite well for a long time), then what the hell hope do I really have? I believe many of our problems were fueled by poor communication of needs by both of us, insecurity on her part, and a fragile self-confidence that occassionally bordered on arrogance on mine (and was perceived by her as dismissive of her feelings -- the exact OPPOSITE of what I wanted to convey). That's a lethal cocktail for marital unhappiness. We see each other a lot, but it's limited interaction. I know that I need to stop the R talk and that sort of pursuit, but if I end it all attempts at talking to her about, not necessarily us, but life, the universe, and everything . . . what happens? If my W gets with OM now, I don't know that it will feel like an OM to her. Just like a man that she's dating. THAT's what worries me.
Just so everyone knows, I AM NOT GOING TO TALK ABOUT THE R WITH HER. I slipped a little yesterday, but, as Nugget likes to say, I haven't verbally vomited in a longer than normal spell.
BD
BD
Last edited by Heimlich; 09/21/0709:21 PM.
My latest
Me: 36 W: 35 2 D: 9 and 5 T: 16 years M: 12 10/4/06: Bomb 10/5/06: Ended A 4/22/07: ILYBNILWY
Well I agree with that. Maybe I misread OT's post. Can't see it now as I am on BB. Anyway, I guess the question still remains to H-have you owned up to your role? And if so, have you or are you addressing your issues? Of course, thnat process may never end, and if it never ends, hopefully it doesn't have to be complete before we can (hope to) reconcile with our WAS.
Nomo
M 39 W 39 M'd 10 yrs; T 14 yrs S7 D4 Bomb 5-8-05 W not working on M 1-22-07; EA 2-22 DB 4-10 S 6-11 No more C Link
You can address how you handle yourself in personal relationships. But, as far as working through the issues in your old M with a WAS, you DON'T, until they return and want to work on them WITH YOU.
Until then, there is no R that includes issues that need to be worked out.
You don't want W back until she has first worked through the R/M issues for HERSELF and has FORGIVEN YOU, and in addition has owned her own shortcomings/mistakes and FORGIVEN HERSELF. Also, you must give her the space and time to work through her feelings for OM and let such feelings die before a healthy R/M can begin and exist with the two of you. Even if you forced the issue and she decided to drop the OM and come back to you, it would likely be because of her guilt, and you would also likely experience her resentment of you AND your pushing her to an ultimatum (which is a form of control). Combined with this is also the fact that her feelings with OM would still be lingering, and because of this she will not be able to invest in the M the way you both need her to in order to have a healthy one. You must let those feelings and that R run its course, and if at that point she decides that coming back to you and working things out is both possible and the right thing to do FOR BOTH OF YOU, then that is the best place for the new R/M to begin developing. However, YOU will obviously need to be able to forgive her at that point too.
That's my 2 cents, I guess. It sucks, but it is what I believe is the reality of our sitches and, in the end, what we will have to endure to have a lasting, healthy R/M the second time around with our S's.
Take care brotha -- and keep working on that wifebeater look (Maybe we'll get together this winter sometime and get a pic taken side by side with our beaters on, and then post it here so the women can see our bronzy, musclely, and beacony bodies and drool!). And regarding the big and buff manequins in the gym -- I sometimes wouldn't mind being one (except not quite so bulky buff -- just slenderly-toned buff)!
I'm getting better. I guess the crux of the matter is was her statement BS? Were I certain that that's a true sentiment rather than a cloak to "protect" my feelings while she falls back in love with OM, my PMA would be sky high. Right now, this is like a sore tooth that I can't stop wiggling with my tongue. Unlike in the past, I'm wiggling that tooth here, rather than with W -- as you know, a pretty big step for me.
Regardless of whether it's true or not, doesn't really matter does it? If I push and it's true, I push her away. If I push and it's not true, I push her away. Paging Joseph Heller.
Fuggit for the evening. Time to go run; in the quest for the ever-shrinking Heimlich and then, the ultimate for a Friday night, buy a trash can for the apartment. Time to retire the plastic grocery bag hanging from the fridge door.
Woo hoo, come party with me, people
BD
My latest
Me: 36 W: 35 2 D: 9 and 5 T: 16 years M: 12 10/4/06: Bomb 10/5/06: Ended A 4/22/07: ILYBNILWY
