Zoos and Swans

[SouthernGirl]

I'm developing a theory that a HD/LD discrepancy has mostly to do with how comfortable the man is with his sexuality and sex in general. A sexually comfortable man with a sexually uncomfortable woman will probably be able to turn the ship around in a month, tops, if he is really sexually comfortable. On the other hand, a sexually uncomfortable man with a sexually comfortable woman will either turn LD himself (see LFL's husband) or turn her LD.

This makes a lot of sense to me. A lot. I think I've been starting to get a sense of this from my reading and pondering and confronting of my sexuality. What I used to think about sex, HD/LD, relationships, etc. has been turned upside down. Things just don't look the same to me anymore. Clearly another case of not being able to see something until you can see it.

Yep. I think most people are HD/LD within the dynamics of their own particular relationship. Sure some are going to have an instrinsic higher drive than others, but most of the mismatch comes from the dynamics of who you're with. The LD usually gets the lable as "the one with the problem" (or sometimes the HD does ) but it's really both, and neither.

[MJontheMend]

Oh... and the girls usually see that guy as some sort of great 'challenge.' (We're so stupid sometimes). Maybe, Mo, that is why you always get booty calls from your prior dating partners... that's the way you went into the R... so for them to give you a booty call is fitting the M.O. you gave them from the get go...

I hope you know that I wasn't trying to dis you with what I posted earlier. You know I think you're super-fantastic, right? It's just that I was feeling kind of frustrated because to me it seems like (although you might not mean it that way at all) I'm your friend with DD boobs and you are telling me that if I go buy some sort of special reducing bra, I'll be able to look classier in certain kinds of clothing and you are giving me this advice from the kindness of your heart. All I'm trying to say is that I just want to be the natural me and if that doesn't look "classy" I'm okay with that. I actually truly enjoy "slumming" on occasion. Although, I have to tell you it really hasn't been my experience that I choose between having "just sex" or "emotionally-connected sex in a committed relationship". There are a hundred million possible variations in between those two poles. I can have friendly sex with a friend or seriously fun sex with a sweet-talking joker or a sizzling summer romance or a semi-kinky flirtation with a co-worker etc. etc. If you consider the basic components that might vary to be level of excitement, level of affection and level of commitment or desire for commitment and you throw in the world of possibilities for differing contexts and personalities, it's clear that trying to neatly sort or value these experiences can lead to a sort of emotional dishonesty. The truth is much more complicated.

I think the reason why I frequently get booty call is the reason why many women get booty call- men are frequently horny, drunk and stupid all at the same time.

[MJontheMend]

On your date, you had explicitly thrown out those rules, so he was free to “paw” you.

Not true at all. He treated me very respectfully. Also, I said he was good in bed. Men who are good in bed don't "paw" women. Yuck. Actually, I know that he wasn't planning on initiating sex with me on our first date because we were joking about it later on. He was going to go with the standard "wait until the third date" rule. - lol


Regarding your Mama. As you know I have an 18 year old son and I actually was hoping that my D16's cute little HD friend might hook up with him. She's a published poet and extremely intelligent and I enjoy interacting with her. My greatest fear would be that my son might marry somebody stupid and/or boring and I would end up with grandkids I couldn't have fun debates with when I'm 80.

[OG_Lou]

Cobra Ok, if that’s how you want to see it. I tend to think of some (not all) farmers as losers who can’t cut it in college or a competitive workplace, so instead they hop on a tractor and plow, then use the patriotic excuse of a love for the land, having an independent and rebellious spirit against authority which is part of the founding values of this country, yada, yada, yada.

Cobra, some of my relatives looked at people that went to college as someone that was afraid of getting dirty and breaking into a sweat, sort of pansies, someone that wanted to tell other people what to do but didn't want to do much of the work them self.

Farmers and college people/careers each have their own value.

Farming isn’t for losers. Losers won’t be farmers for very long.

I doubt there are many people on the forum that could operate a successful farm, ranch, or what now is called an “Agribusiness Enterprise.”

Read about agricultural education
http://www.ffa.org/

http://www.ffa.org/index.cfm?method=c_co...FTOKEN=33519373

Talk about having fun driving a tractor, try these on for size
http://samwillson.tripod.com/id18.html
The tractor in the picture at the top of the web page was made in MT.

http://www.williamsbigbud.com/bigbud.htm

Lou

[Corri]

Mo:

Horrified by:

I was feeling kind of frustrated because to me it seems like (although you might not mean it that way at all) I'm your friend with DD boobs and you are telling me that if I go buy some sort of special reducing bra, I'll be able to look classier in certain kinds of clothing and you are giving me this advice from the kindness of your heart.

My. God. No. It would be like you telling me to stuff my B cup so I can have deeper cleavage. AAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think we are so busy trying to be heard we can't hear. And I think you and I really are on the same page. You're just speaking french... and Corri, in her worm glasses, is speaking Latin. A dead language. LOL!

Corri

[OG_Lou]

and Corri, in her worm glasses, is speaking Latin. A dead language.
Funny, I never studied a foreign language or did the pig Latin thing. Most of what the women talk about, I understand.

BTW No need to stuff those B's Corri. The person counts.

[MJontheMend]

I have to figure out how to date without making rules for myself because when I make rules for myself that is usually a sign of low functioning.

This is interesting, because I am the exact opposite.

That's because you are "deliberate" and I am "random". For instance, when I am high-functioning in regards to the laundry, I don't have to have a rule that says "Do the laundry.", I just do the laundry.

I think Mojo would be playing a game if she withheld sex from 6'5" pushup guy. Initially, I think you should just go with it, and see what happens organically, without trying to control it. shrug. Only directness works on me....well if you want to earn respect that is. JC has been very direct. She has a lot of issues to resolve, and I am looking for any reason to cut her off. anyways.. For ex. Mojo and NG. If I sensed hiding the bunny and withholding the cow, I would cut her off, too. I like him more because of it.

I think I should win a prize if I was capable of withholding sex from pushup-guy. I highly doubt that I will have any say in the matter one way or the other. He's playing me bunny at the moment but I think that's only because he's so f*cking scary he pretty much has to with all women. I seriously may be out of my depth here. We shall see.

Regarding NG, I can never completely withhold the cow/swan. Certainly not sexually. The way you can tell is that the man said he felt very "comfortable" with me sexually. However, there were occasions on which I perhaps denied the existence of the cow/swan/bunny triad. I like NG too, I feel like he was "generous" in relation to me but I have to wonder why he keeps sending me friendly e-mails.

f she does this, then running into one (or several) of those "immature men" will only hurt her more.
Or teach her to recognize and avoid those men. Judging from her residual feelings for NG, it appears he isnt one of them. Hey I just noticed, whats up with the ""'s?

Well, there's a very simple but not necessarily easy way to avoid all problems of this type. It's called mature communication.

I think there is choice and decision. Women thinking they can 'refom' a man are as delusional as men "Imagining a woman who's a chaste virgin but miraculously melts (after an appropriate time) only at your touch"

I think you're right but I think men can choose to "reform' themselves. So if you believe the saying "Reformed rogues make the best husbands." I guess you just need to figure out how to look for the signs of a rogue about to reform himself - lol

If I choose to behave somewhat promiscuously it's because I don't particularly give a f*ck about whether I "get" a man, I'd rather just get laid clapclapclap. Untill your bunny wakes up in an oxytocin pool that is... \:\/ I almost believed you, though...

LOL- Well, clearly, it's exactly the kind of short-sightedness that makes people forget about the likely hangover when they drink. The interesting thing is that now that I've figured out that I can lose the hangover pretty readily with lack of contact, I could choose to order my sexual life by following the same/opposite "lack of integration" type thinking that you use. In my case, I like romance and affection mixed with my sex and excitement, so I could date men who are willing to provide that stuff also but then just get really super clingy with them once I sense that the chase is waning. They'll dump me and I'll be free to move on to the next guy willing to give me everything I want for a while without guilt for leaving hurt feelings. Except, I'm already bored with the idea because it's way too easy.

Where did you get this impression? I dont agree with this. I dont think the right guy for you is going to care how soon you have sex. I do think in your M, your H thought you only wanted sex, which is differant then wanting him for sex.
how are you signalling you dont care about forming a R? I agree with you about that, nailing that part down, might help you.

Good point. I think sometimes the way I signal that I don't care about forming a relationship is that initially I am sexually responding to the things that are sexually attractive about a man and therefore just kind of ignore things that might also be important in a relationship. Like a guy might bring me flowers but I'm paying attention to his leather jacket. I do really like the flowers but they're not what is turning me on at the moment so I give them short shrift. There are practical matters too. Like I didn't take a minute to think about whether I really wanted to form a relationship with a man who has two young children before I started dating NG. Part of the reason I might want to delay having sex with a guy if there's any possibility that it might lead to a relationship is that it's very difficult for me to rationally consider things like this when I'm in my dopamine/oxytocin fog.

Your not? Ok. So if you dont care, and he doesnt care... I seriously doubt the 23 y.o, will care if you use him like a toy. So... how would it be heedless and using him? If you put up a profile saying you were interested in men under the age of 22 for NSA, you would be inundated with toys.

Okay, what I should have said was that I shouldn't do that in relation to men who are signaling that they are potentially looking for a relationship. BTW, I can't have sex with 23 year olds because I have an 18 year old son. Yucko.

It's more difficult for men to form relationships when women offer sex too freely because it inhibits the build-up of vasopressin and limits their ability to bond.
This is biologically incorrect. I could never fall in love with someone who was not in a sexual R with me, no matter what they project is going on. The build up of vasopressin is not a bonding chemical like oxytocin. Vasopressin takes TIME which is differant for everyone.

I'm just going by the book I read which indicates that you do have to have sex to release the vasopressin but there will be a bigger release if you're around the guy not having sex with him for a certain while beforehand. Whatever. I guess if I really believed that it was such an important factor, I could just inject any guy I wanted to bond with me with a big syringe full of it right after sex. Of course, that wouldn't exactly fulfill my desire to be loved for my pilgrim soul, would it, unless my pilgrim soul is really just a devious monkey brain.

BTW mojo, " I want to be loved by a woman". Um. I only want what I can have.

I know what you mean about the desire. Here's what I think. Maybe you don't think that a woman can commit to choosing to love you in the absence of desire but maybe a woman can develop such a deeply ingrained habit of loving you that it becomes second nature. I was thinking about this a while back when I noticed that there were boxes of sandwich bags gathering dust on my kitchen shelf.

[fearless]

Ok, if that's how you want to see it. I tend to think of some (not all) farmers as losers who can't cut it in college or a competitive workplace, so instead they hop on a tractor and plow, then use the patriotic excuse of a love for the land, having an independent and rebellious spirit against authority which is part of the founding values of this country, yada, yada, yada.

Now, did I answer all your questions? How about you answer some of mine?

Wow! Did my Harley riding poser comment strike a nerve? One of my best friend's H has one so I know plenty of white collar guys have them and are not posers. I just happen to know a few that are posers.

Your comments about farmers just strikes me more as sad because I know so many people have that same attitude toward most (if not all) farmers. In my case it's easy not to take it personally when people call farmers stupid (and they do) since my parents both have their college degrees and really did CHOOSE farming. I loved growing up on a farm and I understand it's impossible to explain it to someone who doesn't get it. I can't explain to my non-running friends how great running 20 miles feels (although it's been awhile and I do need to get back to it).

Anyway, if you do feel that way toward farmers, then you probably would have a hard time respecting my father and my family's values and understanding the dedication and hard work farming requires. Someone not respecting my parents is difficult for me to understand but since you don't know them, I can't take it too seriously.

I'll look at your questions again but it may take awhile to sift through your post...

[MJontheMend]

The thing is, he doesn't really want her to be a whore even in his bedroom if he's sexually uncomfortable. He still wants her to want sex less than he. He needs to be one-up, sexually, so to speak. So the message a girl gets is "be a chaste virgin. After we marry, be sexually receptive (to me and only me) like a finely-tuned instrument, but don't ever let me feel you like sex for its own sake".

And that is I think really confusing. And asking the impossible, really. You can't be sexually receptive without being sexual. So what does the woman do? Shrug her shoulders and turn LD.

One thing Schnarch said in his book really struck me: most people will want sex if it's worth having. And I think, being an Instrument is, à la longue, not worth it for most women, at least not once the chemical infatuation wears off.

Excellent. I couldn't have put it better myself. If a guy like young Cobra and I were dating, it would never be the case that he would think that I was a "slut" because I signaled something like that on our date. I dress sexy sometimes and I'll talk abstract sexuality with just about anyone but I have a certain physical reserve and the vocabulary of a librarian and I smile a lot. So any guy who was following the "rules" would be compelled to follow them until I signaled differently. OTOH, as BF indicated, a lot of men don't follow the rules- lol However, the kind of scenario that I might imagine if you think of a really young Cobra and me is that when I became sexual with him the issue wouldn't really be my experience but rather my openness or wide band width. The young Cobra would find that he could do stuff with me that he couldn't do with other girls and his reaction quite possibly would be to in a sense blame me for his own discomfort with some aspects of his sexuality. My wide sexual bandwidth doesn't really have that much to do with my sexual experience. I was receptive to sexual experiences to which other girls might not be open as soon as I became at all sexual.

[MJontheMend]

Okay, I know nothing about sports so I have a question for those who do. If a man played football on Bear Bryant's team and said that his best skill as a player was that he was "coachable", what would that mean? I have a feeling this is a man personality clue but I don't know how to interpret it.