What I don't understand is why peace and happiness is so scary. Why is it preferable to stay stuck? What is so threatening about being happy? Why do we choose to be miserable?
Because you can't see what you can't see. Until you do.
How you guided you daughter is just how I want to guide mine. I'm glad to hear your story on this as it is comforting to know that it can work out well. Thanks.
Cori Just checking in. Started dating again ever so slowly so I may hit you up from time to time when I do not wish to bash my head since you are blunt and honest though we may not see eye to eye or the fact I simply do not understand some of your writings.
take care NHS
"All I want is a weeks pay for a day's work" Steve Martin
Mojo to Cobra? Okay, that was rude monkey of me to imply that sexual experience is the issue. There are plenty of guys who lack sexual experience who are good men. Lou, for example. Your problem Cobra is that your Mama taught you how to be a nice boy but didn't let you become a good man. I lack experience somewhat because my mind jumps to the responsibility mode right off the bat. Number 2, I don’t want to scare anyone off or insult/hurt their feelings. I think given the right circumstances I could do/be lots of monkey things.
Lou, obviously, had a bit of the opposite problem.(Get in touch with that monkey, Lou!) Well the monkey ( a small quantity ) got out last night. The sex was much better than in the last year.
Do you really think that most women tell their sons to avoid certain women or something like that? I heard the message keepers don’t mess around. Mess arounder’s might not stay. I think I got a small part of the truth but not the whole truth. After reading the SSM forum, I have changed my mind.
Mojo To Cobra I might think twice about approaching a guy like that if he is dating me and whispering in his ear that your Mama thinks girls like me are slutty. Someone that lived in a SSM for 20 yrs and didn’t fool around, tells me they can be trustworthy and not slutty if they are with the right person. or a person they choose to be with, in a LTR.
There is a lot to this, as well as the whole double standard issue.
I addressed it with my daughter when she was about twelve as it became apparent that she had a high sex drive, by first teaching her that sex was completely normal and natural, then by encouraging her to wait if she could and try to find a like minded guy (she did). I told her that once she was married, to do anything and everything, anywhere they wanted to (short of being arrested). They now have what I consider a very healthy sex life. We also openly talk about it when warranted. So we basically avoided the double standard altogether. Their experience is with each other, but very open and honest. I think their relationship has an excellent chance at longevity without serious complications.
They talk openly about basic marital issues as well.
Good for you, and lucky her. I'm glad it worked out.
Originally Posted By: NOPkins
I don't have much of an issue with sexual history in my mate (MrsNOP). My interest is exclusivity within the relationship. I think you will find that while I may be a minority, I am certainly not alone in that philosophy.
If there was no relationship, then exclusivity doesn't matter to me at all.
Just my $0.50 worth.
-NOPkins-
Yes, I figured that. It's interesting that you and blackfoot and Lou seem to be the ones that understand this on a visceral level, because you all seem to be very different "types" of men. I'm trying to find the common denominator to bottle it and give it to Mojo so she'll know what to look out for in a potential LT mate.
You women are toooo funny!! Talk about stirring up a hornet's nest... it's always interesting to me how women will say they are independent thinkers and doers, don't need a man telling them what to think, how to act, etc. and yet when I put up one judgmental male POV, look at the responses!
Actually you are toooo funny and predictable Cobra!!! In actuality it did not seem to me that these women were worried too much about whether you were judging Mojo. They were more interested in the fact that A) you think that the men that Mojo would be attracted to and interested in would judge Mojo negatively according to how sexual she is (Quite frankly I think that if one of these guys did turn out to be a man who rejected her for being too sexual, Mojo would probably think "Thank goodness I found out NOW"), B) that you seem so concerned about what your Mama (or friends apparently) would think about the woman YOU are dating or marrying, and C) Mrs. Cobra understands your opinions well enough to do what it takes to gain your respect – because if she was hungry and easy for sex from you, you would view her negatively. i.e. Mojo's response: "If I was married to Cobra and I wanted respect from him more than anything else I would behave like MrsCobra." I didn't see you really address those points.
My question to you was going to be why you (and men who choose women like you choose women) would be surprised to find yourself in an SSM marriage since you are passing over women who are actually hungry for and easy for sex FROM YOU in favor of women who withhold sex FROM YOU!! I think plenty of men get cuckolded by their supposed virginal and chaste wives.
Additionally I know I wouldn't be interested in a boy who looks for his mama's or friends' approval or permission to date me. Rather I'd look for a man who respects his mama but does not let her control him either… I mean would we have to run all our major decisions by her first??? And the same for his friends. Does he need their approval or is he looking to "keep up with the Jones'?", again not my cup of tea.
I definitely GET Mojo's lack of interest in the stereotypical WASP life style. Nothing I've ever been interested in either. I like farmers (many are independent and have a bit of a rebellious streak – Read Wendell Berry for some great descriptions) but not too many of them left. Basically this ties into the "theme" of boys who follow the proposed rules out there versus men that make their own rules. I tend to think of WASP types as being more likely to follow the rules that Cobra mentions because they want to fit in. Even buying Harleys like he mentioned earlier falls into the poser category for some executive types (NOT ALL but some). They sort of want to appear like a rebel but only in an acceptable way.
Anyway, I know I am pretty late to all of this but of course I wanted to add my .02 before the thread locked up!
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
Mojo, Have you read any Wendell Berry books or poems? This is my favorite!!
Manifesto: The Mad Farmer Liberation Front
Love the quick profit, the annual raise, vacation with pay. Want more of everything ready-made. Be afraid to know your neighbors and to die.
And you will have a window in your head. Not even your future will be a mystery any more. Your mind will be punched in a card and shut away in a little drawer.
When they want you to buy something they will call you. When they want you to die for profit they will let you know. So, friends, every day do something that won't compute. Love the Lord. Love the world. Work for nothing. Take all that you have and be poor. Love someone who does not deserve it.
Denounce the government and embrace the flag. Hope to live in that free republic for which it stands. Give your approval to all you cannot understand. Praise ignorance, for what man has not encountered he has not destroyed.
Ask the questions that have no answers. Invest in the millenium. Plant sequoias. Say that your main crop is the forest that you did not plant, that you will not live to harvest.
Say that the leaves are harvested when they have rotted into the mold. Call that profit. Prophesy such returns. Put your faith in the two inches of humus that will build under the trees every thousand years.
Listen to carrion -- put your ear close, and hear the faint chattering of the songs that are to come. Expect the end of the world. Laugh. Laughter is immeasurable. Be joyful though you have considered all the facts. So long as women do not go cheap for power, please women more than men.
Ask yourself: Will this satisfy a woman satisfied to bear a child? Will this disturb the sleep of a woman near to giving birth?
Go with your love to the fields. Lie down in the shade. Rest your head in her lap. Swear allegiance to what is nighest your thoughts.
As soon as the generals and the politicos can predict the motions of your mind, lose it. Leave it as a sign to mark the false trail, the way you didn't go.
Be like the fox who makes more tracks than necessary, some in the wrong direction. Practice resurrection.
Wendell Berry
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
Just checking in. Started dating again ever so slowly so I may hit you up from time to time when I do not wish to bash my head since you are blunt and honest though we may not see eye to eye or the fact I simply do not understand some of your writings.
take care NHS
Please hit me up whenever you wish, my friend.
I don't need you to try to understand me. I just need to know when you don't... so I can try to clarify.
Ask away. I will endeavor to tell you how I see things. I am so happy to hear that you are venturing out again!!!!!!!!!!!
In actuality it did not seem to me that these women were worried too much about whether you were judging Mojo.
It seemed to me worry over my judgment of Mojo and other men’s judgment of her got all mixed together.
They were more interested in the fact that A) you think that the men that Mojo would be attracted to and interested in would judge Mojo negatively according to how sexual she is
So why do they care what I think? What I said was what I think occurs from the male POV.
(Quite frankly I think that if one of these guys did turn out to be a man who rejected her for being too sexual, Mojo would probably think "Thank goodness I found out NOW")
And that would be a good thing.
B) that you seem so concerned about what your Mama (or friends apparently) would think about the woman YOU are dating or marrying,
In know you women think it is ridiculous for a man to listen to his mother when it concerns other women, but that is because you women are the “other women.” Think about how you will feel when your son is getting serious with a woman who you think is a floozie. Should he pay any attention to your concerns? Whether you like it or not, the fact is that men DO listen to what their parents say, just as women do, at that includes mama.
C) Mrs. Cobra understands your opinions well enough to do what it takes to gain your respect – because if she was hungry and easy for sex from you, you would view her negatively.
Nope, as long as her hunger was for me. If she hungered for lots of other men I would consider her a slut. But she doesn’t, so that’s not a concern.
i.e. Mojo's response: "If I was married to Cobra and I wanted respect from him more than anything else I would behave like MrsCobra." I didn't see you really address those points.
If she withheld sex from me, as my wife has done in the past, she would quickly lose my respect on be on my sh*t list. If she wanted my respect, she would be understanding of my needs as I would try to be understanding of hers. Mojo’s perception is way off base.
My question to you was going to be why you (and men who choose women like you choose women) would be surprised to find yourself in an SSM marriage since you are passing over women who are actually hungry for and easy for sex FROM YOU in favor of women who withhold sex FROM YOU!! I think plenty of men get cuckolded by their supposed virginal and chaste wives.
This is an absurd question, even from you. If I knew twenty years ago what I know now, I wouldn’t be here. If I did not have kids, your question would have some merit. But as my situation is now, it doesn’t.
Additionally I know I wouldn't be interested in a boy who looks for his mama's or friends' approval or permission to date me.
Of course not. I know this. Wives and girlfriends are a threat to mothers. The man has to make a decision at some point about whose side he is on. But that doesn’t mean he throws out the values he learned from his parents.
Rather I'd look for a man who respects his mama but does not let her control him either… I mean would we have to run all our major decisions by her first??? And the same for his friends. Does he need their approval or is he looking to "keep up with the Jones'?", again not my cup of tea.
Did I say a man should take such an extremist position and run everything past his mother? I said a man still hears his mothers voice concerning morals and values. You are sensationalizing.
I definitely GET Mojo's lack of interest in the stereotypical WASP life style. Nothing I've ever been interested in either. I like farmers (many are independent and have a bit of a rebellious streak – Read Wendell Berry for some great descriptions) but not too many of them left. Basically this ties into the "theme" of boys who follow the proposed rules out there versus men that make their own rules. I tend to think of WASP types as being more likely to follow the rules that Cobra mentions because they want to fit in. Even buying Harleys like he mentioned earlier falls into the poser category for some executive types (NOT ALL but some). They sort of want to appear like a rebel but only in an acceptable way.
Ok, if that’s how you want to see it. I tend to think of some (not all) farmers as losers who can’t cut it in college or a competitive workplace, so instead they hop on a tractor and plow, then use the patriotic excuse of a love for the land, having an independent and rebellious spirit against authority which is part of the founding values of this country, yada, yada, yada.
Now, did I answer all your questions? How about you answer some of mine?
