All hope is lost/help

[Evie]

Hi all,

Just got back as myself and d's have been away for th w/e to see a show. H had s's.

H finished some decorating, took the boys out for dinner and did a lot of housework (but not son's homework....bit cross about that as I've had to do the stuff required for tomorrow). I cut the w/e trip short to be back by mid day to go to work with H. I was a bit cross about H saying he did the housework because the house was a pit. I do more than a lot of women I know and I do do housework. When i said as much, he said yes but the girls don't....(again is it a grudge towards the girls?).

I know I should look at the positives of what he has done over the weekend, like the housework and decorating and looking after the boys. But I do it all as a matter of course everyday. Am i been unreasonable and unfair?

I have asked him today if he will bath boys and put them to bed when he has an early finish from work ( once a week, but its a start, its a plan). He said he will!!!

Cat - as far as a plan is concerned, I have started to think further in the future and of facing it alone. H has said he will let me stay in the house for 6 months and he will still pay the bills. He always takes the boys to school because I start work at 7am, but I always collect. I would be making things difficult for myself if i stopped him collecting the boys in the mornings. He's hardly around early evening due to his work, so in many ways i've always coped with the kids on my own, from a practical point of view i think i will be ok. Emotionally??????

We've talked about what we have all done over the weekend, but I don't feel connected to him, I feel really lonely. I feel as if he has distanced even more from me and probably just about tolerates me.. I know H has said he doesnt love me and as you say probably doesn't even consider it could be a MLC..

I was quite down and angry with H until I logged on and saw your advice and support. Many thanks, it means a lot.

Cat -What have you learned from the books and have you applied the advise with positive results?

Keep inner peace and calm.

xD

[cat03]

I know I should look at the positives of what he has done over the weekend, like the housework and decorating and looking after the boys. But I do it all as a matter of course everyday. Am i been unreasonable and unfair?

I have asked him today if he will bath boys and put them to bed when he has an early finish from work ( once a week, but its a start, its a plan). He said he will!!!

It's a tough one, to overlook what they didnt' do and to praise for what they do do. The more positive reinforcement you give the more he'll give--I also have a hard time with that, and my H's only job is to take trash out and wash dishes 1-2x a week. Do I do much more? yes, but if Iwant him to keep helping I must look at what's there vs what isn't.
I think my H has given a bath to the kids once in his lifetime, so, really, give your H brownie points for being so helpful.

How much housework do the girls do? are his complaints valid?

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H has said he will let me stay in the house for 6 months and he will still pay the bills...I would be making things difficult for myself if i stopped him collecting the boys in the mornings
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So he's already making plans to leave? as far as the kids, there is no reason he can't still take the boys to school. When my H left and got an appt 24miles from me, I told him that the kids weren't going to get screwed because of him, that he still was expected to come and watch them 'til I get home from work (as was the daily rutine). Was it too far for him? yes it was, terribly inconvenient? you bet, did he whine about it? yes, but it was HIS decision to leave, so he'd have to deal with that.

As far as being well emotionally, once you make your plan B you tell yourself that you CAN go on without him you must claim your independence. Is it very hard to be separated? yes, but it doesn't have to be excrutiating while the other S is away. Counceling helped me lots and concentrating on me and kids helped lots.

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but I don't feel connected to him, I feel really lonely
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On bad days, I guess I could describe myself like you feel on the above sentence. But I rather not accentuate the negatives, fortune telling is bound to make you feel the way you think e.i "this isn't working, there is gap between us" etc etc.

I know this is hard and it hurts so much not to have a "normal" R (is there such a thing?) But it's the way we react to what life throws at as that make each day count.

I can either think that when my H doesn't come he is either 1)going to court and stuck doing paperwork and trust him or 2)believe he's spending the night with op
and make myself a nervous wreck.
He's destroyed every bit of trust I got in him, but in order to move forward and tear down paralizing fear I have to think the best, and if indeed, he's with op, then who's the looser? me or him? do I loose much if this man, after yet again promising to stay with me (goes to T and all) lies to me again? He knows that if there is any contact with her or other woman I'll divorce him. So I've made my decision, and if the worst happens I'll walk away knowing that I gave it my best shot-- gave him 2 chances and he blew it--and understand he isn't worth my time.

Love yourself for who you are and not for what your H thinks of you. Find your independence again and remember who you were before him.

Positive reads change the tracks your mind makes, you can let Automatic Negative Thoughts (ANTs) and let them eat you, or you can train your mind to take you somewhere constructive. It has helped me tremendously to learn that I can channel my thoughts in positive pathways so that I dont' dwell in misery and beat myself up thinking of the past or thinking of the "what ifs"

A beautiful book about anger, forgiveness, trust and coping is "The wounded woman" by Steve Stephens and Pam Vredevelt, it helps me lots now, because we all have our down times from time to time and we need some encouragment

[Evie]

So he's already making plans to leave? - That was 3 weeks ago and he is still in the house. I took this as a positive as he hadn't done anything (not that I know of?).

Today I'm feeling a bit panicky. We cancelled a skiing holiday that we had booked for December. The company will honour the deposit until the end of the season. My D will be in France working for a Ski company during her gap year and I'm trying to arrange a visit to go and see her in the new year. H has emailed me and said if I dont use the deposit with this company then he will take our S at Easter. H had suggested in the past that we use the deposit and go away as a family. I have just emailed him and asked could we not go as a family still? I've obsviously rocked the boat as H has not replied. I know it is 5 months away, but to me I read it that H doesn't plan to be around by then?

I was going to ask if people thought it would be a good idea to tell him I love him? I know the books suggest I don't, but occasionally I feel he should know that I still do Love him. His behaviour often mirror's mine and I thought it may be a way iniating piecing.

Need PMA today. I will go home now and try and stop fortune telling?

Cat - How's hubby?

XD

[Evie]

So he's already making plans to leave? - That was 3 weeks ago and he is still in the house. I took this as a positive as he hadn't done anything (not that I know of?).

Today I'm feeling a bit panicky. We cancelled a skiing holiday that we had booked for December. The company will honour the deposit until the end of the season. My D will be in France working for a Ski company during her gap year and I'm trying to arrange a visit to go and see her in the new year. H has emailed me and said if I dont use the deposit with this company then he will take our S at Easter. H had suggested in the past that we use the deposit and go away as a family. I have just emailed him and asked could we not go as a family still? I've obsviously rocked the boat as H has not replied. I know it is 5 months away, but to me I read it that H doesn't plan to be around by then?

I was going to ask if people thought it would be a good idea to tell him I love him? I know the books suggest I don't, but occasionally I feel he should know that I still do Love him. His behaviour often mirror's mine and I thought it may be a way iniating piecing.

Need PMA today. I will go home now and try and stop fortune telling?

Cat - How's hubby?

XD

[cat03]

I was going to ask if people thought it would be a good idea to tell him I love him? I know the books suggest I don't, but occasionally I feel he should know that I still do Love him. His behaviour often mirror's mine and I thought it may be a way iniating piecing.

The book doesnt' recommend saying ILY in the hopes to convince S to stay, to say it and expect the other S to say it just because you did.

I would tell my H from time to time whenhe was away that I loved him, and made sure I didnt' let expectation hang in the air nor leave space for akward silences, dont' see anything wrong w/that.

If he didnt' answer about the vacation as a family, perhaps he isnt' sure now, that doesn't mean his decisions now are final for plans 5mths in the future, a lot can happen between now and then.

Yes, panick and fear will sicken your spirit. Dont' hold your breath for his decisions, live on and make your own plans.

Thanks for asking Dis, my H is doing ok for the time being, work is tough for him now but he's acting more relaxed with me, almost like his old self.

[Evie]

Cat - was does your H do for a living?

One thing that H has said in all of this is that he works hard for the family, to be a provider and I guess I kind of took that for granted as I feel I work harder...So I suppose we have to support them in the down times and appreciate what they do do.

Cat - do you feel better b/c H is more relaxed? Does he try and work at the M?

I certainly have tried to not nag my H so much about the amount of time he spends at work. Like you pointed out, praise what he does do.. He has also agreed to give s's breakfast in the morning, so thats a break through. Thanks for that Cat.

Cat - what reaction did you get from H when you told him you loved him? did you ever wished you hadn't?

The advise about the girls is also a valid point. Everybody is supposed to do chores in this household. It sometimes feels that I have to nag to get anything done (maybe it's the way i'm asking?)

I am gradually getting better. I panicked about the holiday suggestion and then rationalised my thoughts and came up with the same solution as you Cat - but then I wished I hadn't reacted in such a knee jerk reaction way and regretted what I said. It hasn't been mentioned since he came home, so I hope we can move on and let the dust settle on that one. I realise it was too much too soon.

Thanks for chatting.

X Dis

[Evie]

Cat - R u ok? haven't heard in a couple of days.

Just wanted to tell you that H bathed and put the S's to bed last night as he agreed to do and I sat and read my book for a while and then went to my yoga class. I was pleasant when I came in but I didn't sit and chat as i normally would. I just felt that maybe i'm not emotionally distant enough with him which may lead him to believe that I think the situation is back to normal with nothing more or nothing less. I am waffling and probably not making any sense? I want him to notice that I am stronger and not so needy and dependant on him.

I was a bit down yesterday. I asked him very casually last week if he would like to come to cinema with me on Friday after work. he said he would be too tired, yet yesterday he told me he was going out for a curry with mates after work on friday, I couldn't help but feel the blow and take it personally.

I feel like flat mates at the moment, except I look after him. I guess this is normal?

XD

[cat03]

Hey toots, I'm here, work has been crazy and I'm too tired at home to get online after kidos go to bed (and H has been home this past 2 nights)
My H works in the law enforcement section, brand new at the job and he is having difficulties thus making him a wreck and not able to work on us much, he's working on keeping himself together after all that mess last week, so, not much work on the M end. It's hard now, but that's how things are and will be for a while.

-----------------------One thing that H has said in all of this is that he works hard for the family, to be a provider and I guess I kind of took that for granted as I feel I work harder.
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Just like we sometimes expect thanks for what we do and have people feel grateful, that' show men feel about their jobs, we take it for granted but yes, we must appreciate the fact that they are working hard for our families, they need to know that.

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Cat - what reaction did you get from H when you told him you loved him? did you ever wished you hadn't?
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Before he came around, he'd say nothing, I only felt bad when I expected him to say it back, but when I did it I didn't mind much if he didn't say it back. Even when things were beginning to shape up, he didn't say it much (and now that I think of it, during our "normal"phases of being married, we didnt' say it much, how sad, we just assumed the other person did and ditn' say it aloud).

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he advise about the girls is also a valid point. Everybody is supposed to do chores in this household. It sometimes feels that I have to nag to get anything done (maybe it's the way i'm asking?)
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I can imagen how hard it is to be part of a blended family, but everyone must pull their weight at home, if your H feels he's doing much more than he should, listen to him, really hear him out and make changes accordingly. Yea, nagging is a bad habit I tried to kill when it rears its ugly head.

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I realise it was too much too soon.
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it's ok hon, I can see how you felt about that, it's good that you have decided to let that lie down for now.

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as he agreed to do
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were you thankful or showed appreciation? it's a task he agreed to take on, but how it would help if you show how much what he does help you, and do it often.

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I just felt that maybe i'm not emotionally distant enough with him which may lead him to believe that I think
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I know what you are trying to convey, but you might be setting yourself up for dissapointment if you expect him to do "x" when you do "y". Would you rather chat and sit w/him? then do so, if only for a little while. You show him you are not needy by not hounding him with questions and being on edge and you show him you are dependant by going about your everyday life without seeming to walk on egg shells when he's around. I know things are far from normal, but, just be yourself.

About the cinema, something hard to shallow for women is to comprehend that when men have troubles they must, MUST go to talk to someone else, they must decompress elsewhere. For us women, we want to be able to talk to our Hs as our best friend and be able to go to them when something bothers us. But I've read countless of times how men need an outside ear e.i friend, councelor, when they have problems.
Dont' see it as a rejection of you but rather as him going to his "cave" to think/relax.

Some lessons are harder to learn honey, stay strong))))

[Evie]

HI Cat - Spot on advice which really makes sense and i am really listening to what you are saying.

Has your H agreed to make a go of it with your M?

It will be 1 month tomorrow that H said he was moving out, he hasn't as you know, but as we haven't had any further R talks i'm not sure if he is working on the M in his own way or if he is just staying and saving?

I agree that I need to really start to LISTEN (I don't think i've listened enough in the past). I think the key here is for better communication, we've never communicated on a deep level, It's a new skill i need to learn. Before I would always assume he was been critical of me and I always took things way to personally because of feeling insecure and a need to be reassured. I will remember to REALLY thank him for what he does. I did say it sounded like they were having fun in the bath as there was a lot of laughter as they had been taking some funny photo's with the camera that contorts the face, like those funny mirrors at the fun fair.

My new plan will be to sit down with the girls and ask for more help and less attitude. The 16 yr old will be ok it's the 19 yr old that gives me grief, she feels she works hard at her temp job then she works for H a couple of nights a week and has such a hectic social life that she feels 'put out' if asked for any help, I can see my H's point. Also she is saving for her gap year, but I feel she ought to contribute a little to the housekeeping. My H would agree, but the girls are such a bone of contention atm that I feel I can't talk to him about this. What are your views?

Thank you Cat for your clarity on the cinema, my reaction to him telling me he was out with his mates would have been one of sarcasm, I would have said something like 'so your to tired to out with me but not too tired then to go out with your mates then?' Sooo glad that I never said anything now.

Reading your reply has made me think about intuition and instinct. My intuition in May was telling there was OW, now i'm not so sure. But one thing I realised last night is that he is spending more time at home and doesnt seem so restless in it. He was on the computer in another room and i was watching a film. He only came into the room to watch the telly when I had gone upto bed. It only dawned on me this morning when I read your reply Cat, that maybe he is copying my behaviour and he may have come into the room sooner if I had stayed in the room with him after yoga the other night? Maybe?

There isn't any more on the affection or intimacy side. I was sending signals the other morning but he wasnt budging, he phoned me later and casually remarked that he was really stiff from the excercise he had done the previous night. It felt good to hear that. Unfortunately i'm out of action this week so unfortunately I can't try and connect that way, unless i hug upto him, but I think I will, he'll know there wont be any LM as i'll have my period pants on!!(so no pressure there).

I feel I want to tell him I love him and as you advice Cat I will say it when the time is right and not expert it to be said back. We used to say it every day and we both tell the kids every day we love them. What wories me is that if he says he hasn't loved me for a few years and I think he's never loved me as much as I have him (except maybe in the beginning, when there were 2 less kids and hardly any resp)that his feelings can return and be deeper than they were before? I don't want to iniate any R talks atm b/c I don't want to here any bad stuff, it's unproductive, negative and brings out the worst in me, I would rather work on me and this change produce positive results and i'm gaining strength every day from reading the advice i and every else receives.

Cat - How is it with your H? Having a new job is one of the top 5 or 10 most stressful things we can experience. I believe it takes a good couple of months to learn the ropes and get used to new colleagues etc. You sound like you have been through a lot with your man? I have read a little of your sitch, you always receive and give good advice. Ever thought of becomming a C? How old are your C?

I've offloaded quite a bit today and feel good, thanks for listening. It's becoming a bit like a daily diary.

Wishing you all a good day.

XD

[cat03]

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Has your H agreed to make a go of it with your M?
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Yes, he's home because we both agreed we wanted to keep our M, but for the time being he's seeing a T because of deep issues he' s got, and until he's whole there is not much work done on the M front, we are pretty much like two friends, not much display of affection, and what little there is it usually comes from me (hug) andhere and there he might, might, offer a good night kiss. (LoL about the period pants, I usually have to tell my H, which always makes him flinch when I do it, and also because I DO get extra emotional 4days before it.)

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My H would agree, but the girls are such a bone of contention atm that I feel I can't talk to him about this.
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Well, he's already told you how he feels about the girls' lack of help. So now it falls in your lap to have that good talk and bring up the chores each one has to do. There is bound to be complaining, but since your H is a step-dad, might be vilified if he is included on asking the girls for help. So have a word with them woman to women.

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if he says he hasn't loved me for a few years and I think he's never loved me as much as I have him (except maybe in the beginning, when there were 2 less kids and hardly any resp)
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Hon, we all get that "I really didn't love you" talk, all of us. Later I did ask my H, when he came out from the MLC coma "so, were you really unhappy all the time" and he said "well, do you remember me being happy? we did have good times" only now, your H (and mine) are only focusing on the negative aspects (my H told me the other day all he sees from our past is my bitterness, when I clearly remember telling my H one day 'we should be getting closer as a couple' and he'd cry out 'but we are not doing bad? what's wrong?"
So you see, your H might not remember that the "romantic" love you guys enjoyed during the courting/newlyweds days are phase 1 of 3 in a marriage. Phase 2 is when conflict arises and you are discovering what you dont' like about the person and struggle to change him/her (this is when MLC and divorces happen). Phase 3 is when you finally accept that person for all he/she is.

Would your H read a R book with you? I know you don't want to rock the boat, but I wonder what he'd feel if you suggested it, something like the "men are from mars women are from venus " or "the 5 love languages" At some point my H did listen to the book on cd I got him (mars-venus) and he actually liked it! Then again, before the bomb (3mths ago) he groaned whenI suggested we read something together.

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Ever thought of becomming a C?
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boy, I"m honored you'd suggest that. Frankly, I've given a thought about starting a women's group, kind of like the one I attended when my H left back in 2005, it helped me so much and there was such wisdom in each of those ladies. I want to help, dont' know how, but seeing how people suffer in this board I think of all those, each day, being thrown into the S, A and MLC wagon and dont' know how to cope.
Someday, I'd like to give back.

WIsh you the best too hon, have a great weekend_))))))))