things take time and you know this...what I have come to realize is that when I'm quiet and stop listening for what I want to hear...I hear so much more than I thought was being said...yes there is room to grow...but when I listen closely I hear things. perhaps you are waiting for what it is you want and not listening to what w is saying?? (I don't mean direct words either)
Quote: To be told I'm loved frequently (doesn't even have to be once/day).
I understand this one all to well..h tells son every day and night that he loves him...but I don't hear the words..it bothers me...but thing is if I make mention of it now..I am reminded by h that (before all this) I used to complain that the words seemed to have become a closure to every conversation and lost their umph...so h started to use them sparingly...now that I want to hear the words again with frequency they are not comming...does it really matter?? I dunno...they are after all just words...
Quote: 2) To be rubbed affectionately (behave, LL).
boy have I made an immage of myself here!! ha ha ha... I think I've made it blatantly clear to everyone who reads my threads that I understand this feeling as well...what I have noticed is that when I am not looking for it...when I allow myself to loosen up...get rid of the tension of wanting to be wanted...it is easier for h to be affectionate...doesn't always mean sex but affection. I also try to read h when he is speaking his languages to me..that doesn't make my language go away but it does help to know that h is showing love even if not in my way...and the more I show him his lang..the more tempted he is to speak mine.
Quote: 3) To look forward to seeing me when I come home or act enthusiastic when spoken with.
this was something that I always had a hard time with even before the big mess...something I realized is that if I'm upbeat or at least pretending to be (wich I did today when I answered h's call) h seems more chipper (I can't believe I used that word) and talks longer as if he really wants to talk to me.
also that despite the fact that I think h could care less about spending time with me...he does look forward to it...he just doesn't always say so...sometimes ya just have to wait til christmas to get your presents (more of that patience crap)
Quote: I'm tired of this R that doesn't seem to want to really move anywhere.
hmmmm??? it's seems we come to this point so many times during piecing...things progress...then plateau...we get irritated thinking thats the summit but we want more...failing to realize that perhaps our traveling companion is simply getting themselves acclimated to the new climate before continuing the journey. (wow LL's gettin all analytical again)
Quote: She went on to ask what she could do. WTF? How many times do I have to tell her what makes me tick. She knows. She's known for years. She just chooses not to do anything about it. I didn't tell her when she asked. I just said, "you know what I want."
ahem!!!
w I understand that when we visit others you'd like to spend time with them also...however it would make me feel good about us if you could sit next to me.
Quote: Or, let's take it a step further. If she really wanted to be with me, then she WOULD do these things automatically because she wants to...not because she feels she has to.
ok jethro that's a load of crap and you and I both know it...she would not automatically do those things you want because they are obviosly not automatic to her...think about it...when you are trying to show w love in "her" love language...is it automatic?? or are you considering her needs...and then making yourself do it..sometimes you do it freely and other times you have to force yourself too?
Quote: It's like she's come around enough to where our R was when she began going WAW on me, but she won't take it further. Maybe she's not capable?!?!. I want something better.
she's capable...you're capable...it's just going to take time and more of that patience crap...
is your w satisfied with this relationship? perhaps she has shut down somewhat to protect herself from her feelings about herself and what she has done?
have you tried the, "honey, i just love hearing you say you love me everyday! or "honey, it feels so great to have you next to me"? it's like when i talk to my preschoolers, i try to catch them doing something positive then i make a big deal about it. it really works on my h too!
seriously, it is natural to be discouraged. after the pain you have gone through you deserve so much love and to be emotionally cared for. it is unfair that we have to do all the work to get our s back, than have to keep doing the work to get the relationship good, and at the same time have to heal and deal with all the pain our s have caused.
i also get pissed that on top of that my h was having a grand time partying and screwing around. he admits he enjoyed the affairs, although he deeply regrets them now. i couldn't even hold solids down and he was giddy with passion and pleasure in his freedom!!!!!!!!!!!oh, who's thread is this? sorry, forgot i was visiting.
doesn't help you much at all, but i really think i understand. you deserve to be loved completetly in every way. lisa
Thanks so much Abby, LL, Lisa, and SB. I REALLY appreciate the feedback.
Frankly, I'm confused right now. I am beginning to think that the latest issues reside with me and me alone. Why? For whatever reason, I'm feeling very confused and my feelings are all over the place. I mean, I understand that what we go through is wrenching, but jeez...I have so many simultaneous contradictory feelings that it drives me nuts. I'll see my W naked and think mmmm...then I'm reminded by OM and am repulsed (repulsed is a little harsher than I feel...but it's the only one I could think of). I think I'm still trying to process all of this business and OM keeps coming up in my head. I wish I had a time machine...
My W and I had an R talk last night where I mentioned many of the things I mentioned in my last post. Naturally, she was disappointed. The way she sees it is that she's doing things for me and that she feels like she is always being analyzed. She just "wants to be"--her words. I can understand that. I suppose I'd feel the same way.
Can definitely relate with what you seem to be facing right now. I've been all over the map over the last few weeks. Had a heck of a time discerning the root cause -- me, him, both, just to be expected stuff, whatever? Guess I slipped out of DB mode a bit -- looking for reasons instead of solutions -- hmmm, that's actually good for me to remember for next time! (yah, this is a stream of consciousness post I guess!)
Anyway, for me, I decided that "it's all of the above" -- some of it was just my bad/sad/mad attitude -- trying to address that through "what works" -- exercise, meditation, a bout of screaming my head off in my car last night, etc. Some of it is h -- have no explanation but he's being wonderful today and for better or worse, my PMA is higher -- not just cause of what I'm doing. And some of it is just the crappiness that is this stuff -- I reminded myself this morning (with the help of my good friends here) that what I am facing positively blows. and I'm doing ok. And I can expect to feel like absolute crap sometimes. and that's ok. Maybe something in there for you?
I can't remember if I've posted this before but I also think that my early DB'ing was SO much about h that I forced myself to ignore my needs, my feelings. Whenever I'd wonder if I was "getting what I needed", I'd push it away. post-crisis mode it seems harder to do -- tho' I did decide yesterday that I may need to focus on his needs more in the short term to get us back on a more positive footing. occasionally difficult to NOT feel sorry for myself in the process.
Quoting jethro: I wish I had a time machine...
I'm wondering if you would go into the future or the past? Just curious!
Quote: My W and I had an R talk last night where I mentioned many of the things I mentioned in my last post. Naturally, she was disappointed. The way she sees it is that she's doing things for me and that she feels like she is always being analyzed. She just "wants to be"--her words. I can understand that. I suppose I'd feel the same way.
I've heard something similar from my h. -- more that he feels my "expectation" as opposed to analysis. He's actually kind of right -- even I can see that for us, things don't work "as well" when I'm in "watching" mode.
Not sure I'm offering up anything here -- just some support and an "yah, I can relate".
Can you recall the types of things that might have pulled you out of a "piecing funk" in the past?
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
Yea, I know what you mean. Its like getting the alignment done on your car, but they don't bother setting the steering wheel straight ... your car is going straight down the road, but wheel is cocked to the right. It messes up your feel for direction.
For us, wish it would as easy as taking wrench to it.
Hi Jethro. I think I should save everyone time by just posting on your threads; I seem to always be just a few days behind you in terms of PMA and where I am in the process.
As I read everyone's posts regarding the whole "I'm angry that I have to be the one who has had to work so hard to save the M, was slapped down and deeply hurt when I found out about the affairs, never will get enough apologies or see enough remorse, and have to be the one to accecpt that my W, though upset she had the affairs, still got something out of them that she felt she couldn't or wouldn't get from me," I see something that must be done. We have to basically accept what has happened and forgive. This is not easy and I don't think of it as a gift I give myself. I see it as a gift I grant my wife from which I will gain some peace. I think forgiveness and trust both need to be earned.
It sucks, it sucks, it sucks, and I don't want to yet, but that's the way it is. At least it is if we want to stay married. I told my W yesterday I wished I didn't love her so much. That way I could just end the M and start again with somebody new. When I said it, I meant it. Today, right now, I don't feel that way. Today I feel I would be terribly sad if she came up to me and said, "This isn't working. I'm leaving." We are fairly young in this process, and we are very lucky to have the support of SB, LL, LK, SAGE, and so many others. Reading that each has his or her own doubts at times is comforting. I get discouraged when I see how long this might take to get over it, and I get angry with myself when I consider ending the M because I will look at it as another failure in my life.
So, where we are stinks and I don't know what I want, but I do know what I don't want and I see that as progress. I don't want to have a failed marriage. I don't want to lose my wife, even with all of her faults and transgressions, and I don't want to be seperated from from my children. I will continue to feel the pain and hope someday it will fade. I know this probably isn't much help, sorry. Just hang in there, friend. We are all of us going to make it through this and at the very least, we will know a great deal more about ourselves. Such knowlege is not easily gained.
Quoting Sage:I'm wondering if you would go into the future or the past? Just curious!
It would be to change the past, Sage. Just a fantasy... Hindsight is 20/20 right?
So, I've been trying to decipher what's been going on in my head lately? So, here's the progress of my sitch: 1) Jethro DBs ass off to get W back. 2) W comes back, admits A, then wants to stay M. 3) Within a couple of months, W becomes EXTREMELY giving to our R. 4) Few weeks later, W backs off on giving (but some remains). 5) W continues to make positive changes for herself...reading, meditating, doing stuff around the house, being more involved with the kids, etc., but remains "backed off" to me. 6) Jethro not liking this "back off" tells W. 7) W says she doesn't know what to do...feels every one of her actions is analyzed and evaluated...
So, my conclusion? Well, I've come to a few realizations.
1) I still think that my W isn't convinced she loves me. I rarely hear her say it (perhaps three times since "coming home"), and she used to daily...before all of this WAW stuff. This suggests that I'm still walking a fine line, so to speak. 2) When our Ses first come around after having an A, I think many of them are remorseful and will go the extra step in proving their love...especially when they get exposed to the same reading material we've read. Over time, however, I believe this fades (or it has in my sitch) because they get on a more even keel, and don't feel as compelled to REALLY go the extra mile. (Right Sage?) 3) I find that I EXPECT my W to go the extra mile because I have. I have for many years in our M, and I REALLY have for almost two years while things have been in the toilet. Should I expect this? Well, that's the big question, is it not? I suppose that, at first, I shouldn't, but as time goes on, my expections of what a healthy R is for two people grows.
The answer to all of this crap? I guess just keep DBing and show my love to my W through her "love language." I'm hoping that, over time, she will come around even more...that the improvements she's making for herself will yield something more for me.
So now I have to dig down deep, yet again, and pull out the reserves of patience. I need to act "as if." I need to remain relaxed and unaffected by her inconsiderate actions, yet continue to acknowledge those things that she does right, and does for me.
I still want something more, guys. Will I ever get it?
Well Jethro, let me put a slightly different spin on what I had posted to Sage today as it relates...
Not sure W is "in love" with you yet?
What can Jethro work on about himself to strengthen the attraction that draws her to you? For starters, I would suggest stop putting out there that what she is doing is being analyzed and evaluated. Stop making her feel she is being compared to some benchmark that she doesn't see. Its frustrating her about how she should act around you and hence is starting to drive a wedge between you. Instead focus on what Jetro can do to make himself feel better about what he is doing in wanting to strengthen his W's attraction in order to draw her closer.
Quoting jethro: I still want something more, guys. Will I ever get it?
Ironically, its letting go of those expectations you have that will attract her the most. Tear up the scorecard (the expectations ... the "if you would do this, I'd feel better putting the effort into M."), and offer yourself to her unconditionally. When you can achieve this is when you be best rewarded.
To help with this check out: www.deida.com and checkout the link to his book: "The Way of the Superior Man". He can seem a little of the wall at first, but give it a chance and it can become very enlightening.
All I can say is that right now my PMA is way up, and my H seems to be really trying. A few weeks ago...two weeks ago? I was having all the same grumbling, irksome "is this enough" kinds of feelings we all get from time to time.
What changed? I don't really know...CJ is just a lot more playful, affectionate, doing stuff, and of course that makes me more relaxed, playful.....hang in there is the bottom line here!
Maybe is CJ is cruising your thread he'd care to share?
