Zoos and Swans

[MJontheMend]

What I hear you saying is... "I'd like to give into my impulses, and blame it on something else..." instead of you OWNING the fact that you are a sexual woman... but a sexual woman with criteria. And I don't know that you've ever really looked at it that way before, because the man you were married to... required no criteria. kwis?

Actually, I have much more problem with having criteria for "under what circumstances" I might have sex with someone than having criteria for "who" I might have sex with (maybe that's what you meant?) Both the men I've had sex with since my separation were intelligent, attractive, very affectionate, romantic and comfortable with their sexuality. They both had careers with solid "purpose" and actually even hobbies with "purpose" too, cultural and political believes largely in alignment with mine and responsibly maintained households. They both actively pursued dating me and there was nothing in their behavior towards me that was in any way ill-mannered, quite the opposite in fact. If I could pick just one thing that was "wrong" about my relationships with either of them it would simply be the fact that I wasn't sure if I wanted to be in a relationship at all when I started dating them. I had to get my totally screwed up sexuality back on track before I could even start thinking about a relationship. In the same way I couldn't function much beyond having a pleasant dinner with the first couple guys I dated, I couldn't function very well much beyond the just sexual with either of them. It was like I had to remember "Oh yeah, romance and affection. I like those too." and then "Gee, maybe I'd even like to be in a relationship if that meant I might get sex, romance and affection, maybe even some enjoyable companionship too!" However, I really had to work my way up to that point after crawling out of the cistern of my marriage. I know it boggles the mind but I actually had forgotten that some men actually like to cuddle after sex since previous to Teddy I think my last experience with that was in August of 1987 and the same is true for many other relationship components. Anyway, the point I am trying to make here is that although I may be a bit rusty I think I actually might recall how to act in a "normal" relationship if I make the effort to be in one. Clearly, as a mature adult the first thing one might do is simply openly communicate that you are hoping to form a relationship. However, I absolutely refuse to include the phrase "no games" on my profile. The monkey feels like she might get a rash when she reads that.

[SouthernGirl]

Both the men I've had sex with since my separation were intelligent, attractive, very affectionate, romantic and comfortable with their sexuality. They both had careers with solid "purpose" and actually even hobbies with "purpose" too, cultural and political believes largely in alignment with mine and responsibly maintained households. They both actively pursued dating me and there was nothing in their behavior towards me that was in any way ill-mannered, quite the opposite in fact.

Call me dense but I don't really see anything "wrong" here. You had hot sex with a cute guy or two. Some people never get hot sex, ever. You're a "favourite of fortune", to quote J.A., both for being able to give and to receive. You're young, healthy, and there are tons of cool guys out there. Celebrate it.

Sure you and NG might have made a great long-term couple "if" you'd met him later blah blah blah. Maybe not. Maybe it all happend just the way it had to. It was gutsy to pick yourself up like that after Stbx imploded, and go out there. I like it.

My cat is watching it all from the couch, eyes lazily drawn to a slit, but in an approving way. *g*

[MJontheMend]

hat sounds like an eminently sensible rule. How do you like cuddling on the way to the main event? If you really like it, you can just say that you'll cuddle before you have sex, and automatically filter out the guys with whom you don't want to cuddle.

Now how soon do you know whether you'd like to cuddle him? Do you think that is a more reliable indicator for you than your desire to have sex?

LOL- I think maybe my rule reads not quite the way I meant it. There are almost certainly a lot more men with whom I would cuddle than have sex. For instance, I would cuddle with Mr. Rogers if he was alive but I can't imagine doing the deed with him. Also, I can't imagine myself cuddling very much with someone who I do find sexually attractive but with whom I haven't yet had sex. I mean when you first meet someone either the sexual tension is there or it isn't. If it's there, the cuddling isn't going to be just cuddling for very long. Every time NG and I sat down on his sofa together we were having sex within about 10 minutes max. I was fully aroused within about 30 seconds of kissing Teddy. If I'm not going to have sex with a man some SERIOUS propriety needs to be maintained. Like do not let any part of your body touch any part of mine below the neck, above the knee or above the wrist. OTOH, I guess I could think about not moving around even though I'm fully aroused and then whoever I was with might not be totally clued in if they were basically totally lacking in sexual intuition. I must say this whole line of thought is making me quite cranky. I'm probably just going to end up dry humping some 50 year old guy and then asking myself "Why?"

[Crazy Eddie]

I didn't say cuddle for hours or anything like that (although that can be fun too... afterward), just as an indicator of whether you intuitively sense that he's someone you like as opposed to someone who turns you on, that you want to get close to him and jump him as opposed to just jumping him.

Maybe it's not a reliable indicator. Oh well...

[cac4]

Just curious to know what your fear is of claiming 'Who You Are,' and then BEING that. I don't see how I have demonstrated any such "fear".

And maybe you ARE in fact... this very confused man who says to the world, "I AM Who I SAY I am NOT, in any given moment."
...or done this, either.

Ah. But... you sure do get a lot of ATTENTION when you are at the mercy of others, huh? Or at least when you can CONVINCE the world you are at its mercy... {nod}.
seems a bit heavy on the drama. Lil says that "somewhere, there's a chili I can not eat", and everyone thinks thats so #%#ing profound.

as much as when I'm a "victim" of tooth decay, I'm at the mercy of the dentist.

I don't see how you are at his mercy. You and he are solving your tooth problem.
well, thats just entirely contradictory. If, not being a programmer myself, I run into a problem involving programming, I'm at the programmer's mercy...yet, also NOT being a dental professional, if I should run into an oral health problem, and consult an actual dentist, that's "us" working on solving a problem? tell you what: the dentist is going to be handling the lion's share of that one, too. wtf?
And if that is what you and your co-workers are doing right now... solving this problem TOGETHER, it would help a great deal if you just said that.
we're not.
The way you laid it out the other day made it sound like the whole thing was YOUR issue to solve.
it is. small company, small department of individual specialists who collaborate in some cases, and not much at all in others. Kind of like "The Super-Friends"...work together for a common higher goal, but each with our own unique skills. Aquaman can't bend steel.
what if you were a Network Engineer AND a problem solver
same thing. and I will solve it. just not by my own figurin', in this case. I've done as much as I can do with it, by identifying and isolating the problem. The vendor will have to do the rest. to do otherwise would be a waste of my time and my boss's $$.

[cac4]

Personally... I think your angst goes back to the whole pilot thing... but... that's just me.

Corri

and what "angst" is this?

oh, and I read the blog...good advice. nothing at all like "the pilot thing" though, if thats what you're trying to say.

[MJontheMend]

Call me dense but I don't really see anything "wrong" here. You had hot sex with a cute guy or two. Some people never get hot sex, ever. You're a "favourite of fortune", to quote J.A., both for being able to give and to receive. You're young, healthy, and there are tons of cool guys out there. Celebrate it.

You know what? I think you're mostly right. Here's why I think Corri and I aren't quite on the same page with the swan concept. (Hopefully the cat will appreciate this ) Let me share a moment when I felt like my version of the swan:

NG and I just had some seriously intensely hot sex. As the afterglow fades, I rise from the bed with a certain grace, naked and confident. As I stand and prepare to walk away, he reaches out and grasps my waist with his hands and kisses me tenderly way down low on the back. I turn my head and smile at him over my shoulder.

That is me at my mature feminine non-maternal best. That's who I want to be in relation to a man. I think the swan has to do with devotion and I am devoted to finding the man with whom I can feel like that woman on a til death do us part basis (in between the laundry and the quarrels.)

[MJontheMend]

Okay, part of the problem with the whole swan discussion is that the part of me that I think is the swan doesn't write or verbalize very well. I guess she is mute. Anyway the point I was trying to make in the previous post is that in the context described I was feeling very self- satisfied, confident and validating about my sexuality and that is what I was signaling to NG. So, I suppose I might consider how this aspect of my personality might play out in other contexts. If I think about it what I'm really saying is that I should strive to become more like the woman I usually am right after sex and less like the woman I usually am right before sex. Kind of like I should move through life like it's a no doubt done deal so I am very calm, satisfied and confident. Pretty much exactly like a woman who has just been well-f*cked.

Anyway, I thought you guys might be amused to learn that I am almost certainly going to be dating another semi-famous African-American "artist". I'm probably going to date a couple other guys too. One is a WASP but he has a good attitude and my kind of politics. I have to figure out how to date without making rules for myself because when I make rules for myself that is usually a sign of low functioning.

[MJontheMend]

So I've solved the whole puzzle. The bunny is the innocent pre-pubescent girl who is sexually immature, the monkey is the horny adolescent girl who wants to be f*cked/done, the lioness is the mature sexually assertive woman who knows how to f*ck and how to do you and the swan is the mature well-f*cked, sexually-satisfied woman. (The cow is an adjunct to the swan being the woman who is willing to let you f*ck her even though she isn't particularly horny out of a spirit of mature generosity) Because I am a Type 7 dopamine fiend I naturally tend towards the monkey mode so I need to balance that tendency by figuring out how to render myself "well-f*cked" sexually and non-sexually. The mistake I've made in the past is in trying to move from monkey to bunny which means I've tried to render myself unf*cked or LD rather than well-f*cked and satisfied. Partially this is due to the fact that I forgot what that felt like. I was thinking that NG reminded me a lot of the lover I had right before my 2bx and then it dawned on me that the two men weren't so much alike. It was just that I was more like myself as the swan relative to those two men. That old lover always used to play the song "GLORIA" for me. You know the one that goes:

She comes around here
Just about midnight
Ha, she make me feel so good, Lord
I wanna say she make me feel alright

Comes a-walkin' down my street
When she comes to my house
She knocks upon my door
And then she comes in my room
Yeah, an' she make me feel alright

G-L-O-R-I-A (GLORIA)
G-L-O-R-I-A (GLORIA)
I'm gonna shout it all night (GLORIA)
I'm gonna shout it everyday (GLORIA)
Yeah-yeah-yeah-yeah-yeah
Looks so good (GLORIA) alright
Just so good (GLORIA) alright, yeah

That's it. I'm cured. I'm going to leave the BB for a while. I wish you all the very best.

[Cobra]

Mojo,

I mean when you first meet someone either the sexual tension is there or it isn't. If it's there, the cuddling isn't going to be just cuddling for very long. Every time NG and I sat down on his sofa together we were having sex within about 10 minutes max. I was fully aroused within about 30 seconds of kissing Teddy. If I'm not going to have sex with a man some SERIOUS propriety needs to be maintained. Like do not let any part of your body touch any part of mine below the neck, above the knee or above the wrist.

I hope you know that in spite of all your reading and studying about relationships, you are falling right back into the same role you were in with your xH – needy, needy, needy. Your whole analysis is focusing on you, which is good and necessary. But you judge your results based on the reactions on men. So maybe take a moment to think about how men see you.

Back when I was dating, if I ran a cross a woman like you it would have been an open invitation to just take all the sex I wanted until I had enough, grew bored, found something better, and then dump you and move on. I would want to date you for a while just to get a kick out of you. For instance, if I touch you boob, how long before having sex? If I touch your butt, how long, then maybe your stomach, your waist, then just your arm, how about your hand?…. sort of like an experiment.

But one thing I can tell you is that I would have zero respect for you. If you were that hungry and easy for sex with me, then you would be the same way with other men, and I would not feel you would ever be material for a long term relationship.

Now don’t get me wrong because I know the double standard I am throwing out here. Men can do this so why can’t women, right? Well you can do this, nothing wrong with it, but don’t expect anyone you meet while having casual sex to be a serious partner. Men might have sex easily with lots of women, but when they find the “one,” they might hold off of sex because they the man don’t want to come across as too easy (well, this happens some of the time). He wants the woman to respect him and he wants to respect her.

What I am saying is go have fun. But don’t delude yourself into thinking this new freedom somehow defines how you should act with a serious partner. Casual sex and a LTR are two separate things. Don’t let the casual sex define who you are and spoil your chances for a LTR. Once you’ve had your fun, then you will need to impose some self discipline, as Corri recommended, if you ever hope to find the “one.”