Just wanted to swing by for a couple minutes. Sounds like a big conversation, you do sound like you're handling everything pretty well though, given the difficulty of the circumstances and situation.
Towards the end with XW and me when we were having some fairly heavy conversations on the phone (talking about D and why/why not to do it), I too found myself missing key points at times, things I wanted to say but forgot to in the emotion or heat of the moment. So, when I knew I'd be talking with her or knew it was likely that we'd speak, I would literally write down important points that I wanted to make sure I covered, and had my "cheat sheet" readily available so I had it if I needed it. After I started doing that, my personal satisfaction level with how I handled those conversations improved significantly. Maybe that's something that might help you as you proceed with your sitch.
Other than that, keep taking care of yourself, you should be very proud of your efforts.
See ya- Kev
"Our greatest glory is not in never falling but in rising every time we fall." -Confucius
"God alone decides the contest; but we must put our shoulders to the wheel." -Adm. D.G. Farragut
Kevin-38; XW-36 M-2.5, together 4 Bomb-1/6/07; D-6/27/07
I REALLY appreciate you reading all that AND giving me support. I love your idea with the "cheat sheet" because it's what I do a lot. They really do help with your personal satisfaction, even if they're just reminders to remain peaceful and loving. I had a few things down on paper for myself before this call but didn't think to go get it. It's so much easier when you're expecting to talk to them. I shouldn't have been so surprised by his call I guess. Oh well, next time.
Thanks again! f21
Me: 37 M: 14 yrs Separated 10/06; Filed for D 12/07 Life is good.
Soon after I posted this earlier, I felt a little silly about this paragraph.........
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If it's really not what he wanted and I am over here saying this isn't what I wanted, why would he nervously jump into half-@$$ agreeing to D? I think he could've been scared I might ask well why are we then. If he really didn't want to D, wouldn't he just say well why are we then? Ego, I suppose, but it would be nice if he could just be honest so I don't second guess myself here. I would have so much more respect for him and see him as a better guy than the way he's going about it. I get the impression he wants to do this but is simply irritated it's not all on his terms, and isn't comfortable having any of the responsibility fall on his shoulders. I may just share this with him, in hopes he might see that if we are honest with each other we can proceed knowing this is the right thing to do. Any opinions out there on that?
Uhhh, yeah, lol. Well, I'm glad he didn't ask "why are we then?" cuz that would mean he really hasn't paid attention. And if I were to ask that, well that'd be even worse. All I can do is hope he saw what this was all pointing to.... the fact that I have been patient, forgiving, and open-minded, and he hasn't taken enough action to save our M or to prevent D. I guess it just would've felt nice to have him acknowledge it during that convo. I guess I'm not wanting to take the blame for this either.... yes, this is just as obvious to ME. Sigh.
Me: 37 M: 14 yrs Separated 10/06; Filed for D 12/07 Life is good.
You mentioned discussing what led you here. I kinda wonder if it even matters at this point.
I hear ya on this, but I guess it does matter to me and here's why... if it were reversed and I had asked him, I'd really appreciate him discussing it with me. That's part of where I'm coming from. Also, we weren't digging up all the past... we were only referring to the very recent past, and the change of events (last few weeks). It's not surprising that he was caught off guard a little by this, simply because he thought he was playing me again I think.
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Not that your feelings about the whole mess don't matter, but is he likely to actually understand?
It doesn't matter so much if he understands or not. It's knowing I did my part. He was the one who wanted to know and asked. I care and respect him and our M enough to talk about it all.
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He still blames you. It seems to me that he just won't get it.
I don't feel like he is blaming me at this point. I think I helped put a stop to that for the most part awhile ago, by letting him know that we need to move forward without blame... the past is the past. Sure, there are things that he finds fault with me on in our M, but he doesn't seem to be trying to put the blame on me anymore. I think it's much different to be able to accept responsibility for actually divorcing though. He's taken the blame for our problems many times... I've even reminded him that it wasn't all on him.... but I think it's gonna be hard for him now that there is serious and very public consequences.
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But, maybe that conversation is your last little effort to get some realization out of him. I understand that too. I know you'll do what's right for you.
I'm not trying to get realization out of him, but maybe my vent made it look that way. It did give me some ideas I might want to bring up if/when we talk again. Or maybe I don't understand what you mean here.?? But, thanks for having confidence in me. I have learned not to look to him for any of my answers. I do, however, need to know that I'm doing the right thing and if he's interested in talking to me that means something to me.
Thanks, HS!
Me: 37 M: 14 yrs Separated 10/06; Filed for D 12/07 Life is good.
I know what you mean. Of course, at this point, is it really about blame? It seems to be about choice to me. He has chosen to continue on his path of mindless denial. He has chosen to continue being deceitful and dishonest. He has chosen to ignore your boundaries when it's convenient for him.
I agree... it is about choice. Does that not put much of the blame on him though, when he chose to continue this way? Whether he realizes it or not, I think the light was pointed at him today when I stuck up for myself and my decision.
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You have chosen to give yourself the respect you used to wait for him to give. You have chosen to expect nothing less for yourself. You have chosen to look long and hard at yourself and dig out the things you don't like. You have chosen to change. You have chosen to move on with your life, instead of letting it be dependent on moving forward based on someone who will not make these choices.
Thanks, HS!!! Thanks for noticing.
Cheers to owning your choices.
Me: 37 M: 14 yrs Separated 10/06; Filed for D 12/07 Life is good.
Sorry, I'm a little slow tonight. That's my excuse.
You're right, it is not so much "blame" as it is responsibility. Yeah, I guess I don't like being responsible for ending our M. Understandable though, I'm sure.
Me: 37 M: 14 yrs Separated 10/06; Filed for D 12/07 Life is good.
Soon after I posted this earlier, I felt a little silly about this paragraph.........
Quote:
If it's really not what he wanted and I am over here saying this isn't what I wanted, why would he nervously jump into half-@$$ agreeing to D? I think he could've been scared I might ask well why are we then. If he really didn't want to D, wouldn't he just say well why are we then? Ego, I suppose, but it would be nice if he could just be honest so I don't second guess myself here. I would have so much more respect for him and see him as a better guy than the way he's going about it. I get the impression he wants to do this but is simply irritated it's not all on his terms, and isn't comfortable having any of the responsibility fall on his shoulders. I may just share this with him, in hopes he might see that if we are honest with each other we can proceed knowing this is the right thing to do. Any opinions out there on that?
Uhhh, yeah, lol. Well, I'm glad he didn't ask "why are we then?" cuz that would mean he really hasn't paid attention. And if I were to ask that, well that'd be even worse. All I can do is hope he saw what this was all pointing to.... the fact that I have been patient, forgiving, and open-minded, and he hasn't taken enough action to save our M or to prevent D. I guess it just would've felt nice to have him acknowledge it during that convo. I guess I'm not wanting to take the blame for this either.... yes, this is just as obvious to ME. Sigh.
J, sometimes we say things during conversation in order to appease our own self conscious and get an answer that we want to have. Thing is either you ask your question straight out or you don't ask at all. Your right, you don't want to take responsibility for it either. The guilt involved in having to be the one to end it sucks. That is a tough position to be in, you hang on for so long and trying not to be the one who walks away, and in the end you have to do it.
Screw cliff notes/cheat sheets, they set you up to appear to be rehearsed, leading to appeared insincerity.
You did great in your convo J, one or two freudian slips, but who among us don't ave those moments.
On last comment, take the word blame out of your vocabulary please. Blame does not matter at this point. What matters is how you progress from here. How you handle yourself and the dignity that you show going forward. I have been forced to think about this a lot lately and I believe once you reach the D stage, it becomes more about your ability to look back and not feel bad about how you handled yourself.
Stay strong, dignified, and full of grace as you have been throughout all of this. Look at it as more character building for you.
Screw cliff notes/cheat sheets, they set you up to appear to be rehearsed, leading to appeared insincerity.
I agree that that's a danger, perhaps a little clarification - the way I did it was not writing actual phrases, or specific things to say, just several very brief reminders to give me a gentle nudge to remember to mention something in particular. I just came to feel that seeing as how these conversations were never easy or pleasant, it helped to keep me focused on how I wanted them to go. And eventually I did get to the place where I didn't use this tool at all.
But like I said, I agree completely with not wanting to sound rehearsed or "forced" in what you're saying; for me anyway, I found it doable, although it probably helps that I've been in sales for several years and do this all the time in that arena with success. Just something for your consideration, it might or might not be right for you.
I agree with the rest though Ian...
Kev
"Our greatest glory is not in never falling but in rising every time we fall." -Confucius
"God alone decides the contest; but we must put our shoulders to the wheel." -Adm. D.G. Farragut
Kevin-38; XW-36 M-2.5, together 4 Bomb-1/6/07; D-6/27/07
They really do help with your personal satisfaction, even if they're just reminders to remain peaceful and loving. I had a few things down on paper for myself before this call but didn't think to go get it. It's so much easier when you're expecting to talk to them. I shouldn't have been so surprised by his call I guess. Oh well, next time.