Sorry I haven't had a chance to keep up with your sitch.... but it looks like you have lots of great advice.
Did the phone records indicate he's still talking with her? It could mean he's trying to disconnect from her "without hurting her." Sometimes they do that. And sometimes disconnecting from the OW can be a long process. Oddly they can feel guilty about leaving them or having "used them." I know the logic is crazy... like what about us? But it's kind of like how sometimes we treat friends kinder and more respectfully then family or spouses. There's a sort of saving face or wanting to "look good." It's not about the OP, but about the image they've created to that OP and not wanting to lose that or look bad. OP is like a mirror. They like how they see themselves in OP.
When my H indicated a desire to reconcile I didn't ask for full disclosure or letters of apology to my family (even though my dad thinks I'm a complete idiot for staying with my H). I think the letter-writing might be a little humiliating for some WAS. I know my husband would feel that way. Now, I'm trying to imagine if the tables were turned, could I do that? How would I feel about my husband asking me to write letters of apology to his parents? I'm not sure if I'd even want to do that... and I'm a profuse apologizer! No ego there!!!
The disclosure thing can be really tricky too. Unfortunately not everyone can share details easily. You might have seen a recent thread I had asking about how much information one needs to heal. I feel like I need lots, but my husband has never been great about sharing information and details in his life.
Before my husband came back I had only a few requirements. Of course, my situation was a little different in spite of some similarities.... 1) He had to REALLY want to be with me and the kids and have his family back. 2) He had to accept me as I am. He had to be happy with me, the marriage and the family as it was. I might not change in whatever way he wanted. I'd certainly try to make him happy and always work with him on that... but I am who I am and if it's not good enough DON'T come back!!! (there had always been an issue of him never being "happy" with me and things just never being "good enough"). 3) If he came back this time he couldn't leave again until the last child was out of the house. For our youngest child's sake he'd need to try and make the best of it no matter what. Even if he decided he was unhappy again. I didn't want to hurt the children any more. They had already gone through too much yo-yoing in the past and this damage, in time, was apparent to both of us.
I figured by the time the last one was grown (my children are older than yours) that would give us both enough time to see if we could heal, create a strong friendship, good marriage and maybe even want to continue being married beyond the empty nest.
There is no arriving, ever. It is all a continual becoming.
Then I look over my calendar and remember all the things he told me, now realizing they were half truths or flat out lies.
I suggest you stop doing that. I did that for the longest time and now i'm glad I dont' have access to his calls or I'd still be thinking "when he said this , xyz was happening" and I'd bend out of shape. The A went on for so long, as much as you and I want to believe the A to be a fantasy there were real feelings involved. My H told me as much, he still has feelings...but that he hopes that they go away. Whapu told me something I bring up whenever the thought of my H feeling for her overwhelme me "he wants YOU to be the only one". He will have his period of mourning, so now it is prob very hard to start cutting contact w/her. My H was very anguished and torn about writing a goodbye letter to op ( I saw it ).
Yes, it is very scary, like that scene in Indiana Jones when there is no bridge and Indi knows for sure there is one but he can't see it... he closes his eyes, braces, and lifts his leg to take a step into the unknown.
Again, fear is your worst enemy. Fill your mind with positive thought, a great healing book I recommend everyone is "Healing the hurt in your marriage", it will help you deal with the anxiety and with resentment you will/are feeling.
Be not afraid...I will repay you for the years the locusts have eaten Joel2
30something 2kids survivor of S, MLC, A, D I have peace in my heart, at last.
Today I feel so worthless, isolated and confused. I want to stick my head under a rock. I snooped because I wanted to know if I can trust his word. The answer is, mostly no. He is supposed to be moving back in a few weeks.
((Hugs)) I'm so sorry--been there, done that...so many times I can't remember them all, they're just a big jumbled ball of hurt and anger in my memory. Ugh, it's so hard to let go of the past, the hurt, the fear of the unknown.
I know you didn't ask for it, but this is your issue to deal with. On your own, without your H's help. I remember my H telling me that a lot of this I would have to deal with on my own, and it made me so angry to hear him say that, because, HELLO--HE DID THIS. And then I realized (and am still realizing) that he can't heal me.
Healing is my choice. Forgiving is my choice. Looking to the future instead of the past hour/day/week/month/year is my choice. This is what GAL really is, making the choice to look away from the train wreck, and forward to finding your true happiness and peace.
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That he understand how deeply he hurts me and how she is the biggest enemy of our family. He says he understands.
I know your need to say these things. I said them. Over and over again, just in case he didn't hear me the first twenty times. It's something you need to feel and then let go of at some point. Because as valid as it is for you, it's a Mt. Everest for him to climb. And it goes back to what I said above.
Hey everyone, Thanks for sending me a lifeline when I really needed it. You all have so much compassion and wisdom to share.
After my horrible morning, I received an email from him: "Glad we are working things out. Would you like to meet me in the park with the girls for dinner? Have a great day!" It was nice to receive that from him, and the rollercoaster continued, with me feeling better. It is hard when I feel like my emotions are hooked to his actions. I need to really work on that.
I also spent some time reading DR and strategizing using Michele's advice. Especially the parts about when the H won't cut off ties to the OP. I have been doing LRT, with great success, but I realize that I already have stepped into the 'after the LRT' when I told him this is his last chance to make good, and if I catch him again it is over. She says I have to follow through in order to maintain credibility, so I guess that's what I will have to do.
I have to admit that while I am enjoying his renewed commitment to us (he has already lined up a housecleaner every other week to help me, and we are chit chatting about what color to paint the bathroom), about 75% of me knows that he will return to contact with the OW.
So here is my dilemma, and I will take all the advice I can get. Here are my options:
A) completely refrain from any kind of snooping, even when he starts being nasty to me. I can stick my head in the sand and just wait for him to slowly recommit to us, or file for divorce when he decides to give up. This is choosing to ignore the OW and basically taking on the state of amnesia. "OW? What's that? What would you like for dinner, honey?"
B) Strive for the state of amnesia as far as our everyday life, but snooping in order to see just how much contact is going on with OW. When it is an unacceptable amount, I can then call him on it and tell him to get out. I still can wait for him to file. This is the option I seem to be operating in right now, as I have both options.
C) Knowingly live with his contacting the OW and not follow through with my last chance threat. I will feel like a complete doormat, I will cry a lot and smoke packs of cigarettes...
D) Tell him he can't move in until he can make a solid show of proof that it is over. This is the option that all of my friends and pastor want me to do. When I tried to set this boundary last week, he flat out refused, saying that he isn't going to make any promises. He tells me I have to accept his good behavior.
Tonight we go on a date. I have been trying to come up with interesting topics beforehand, so I don't sit there blabbering like an idiot. I feel like telling him that I believe in him and want him to be the best man he can be, that I want him to live a life that is satisfying and free of shame. Which is true.
I believe deeply in redemption.
The Girl
Me: 34 H: 39 M: 11 yrs (7th year was HELL) 3 daughters Survived Affair, 6 month separation Rebuilt marriage Currently stuck
runningoutoftime, How many times did he move in/out? I like what you say about asking him to accept me as is (he is often impatient, disrespectful or flat out mean to me about my preferences), because I see it as his enormous insecurity trying to pull me down as well. I like who I am. As far as telling him he has to really WANT to be with me, that seems contrary to the other advice of letting him come back and wait for the feelings to return. I feel like if I say that, he will respond by saying that we should just divorce. I have been going through this since December, but I am sensing that yours went on for a lot longer?
The Girl
Me: 34 H: 39 M: 11 yrs (7th year was HELL) 3 daughters Survived Affair, 6 month separation Rebuilt marriage Currently stuck
I'm glad your rollercoaster headed back up...that's always so much nicer than the other direction.
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It is hard when I feel like my emotions are hooked to his actions.
Yep. It is hard. But you can do hard things.
This might not seem like the most pertinent thing, but a good place to start finding your own emotional peace outside of H's actions or lack thereof is to answer this question: What is GREAT about you? Go on. List as many things as you can think of here.
I hope your date goes well. I'll try to think about your dilemma and see if I can come up with anything worthwhile to share later.
I hate to scare you here.... but my marriage has taken a long time to get where it is. To where my husband really does appreciate me and treat me quite a bit differently then he used to. Sometimes he reverts back to it, but overall he does show more appreciation than he ever did. I suspect his father used to treat his mother this way. I think it has taken a lot of time, experience and maturity for my husband to finally reach this point.
In my marriage, over the years, my husband moved in and out quite a lot. His way of dealing with problems was to runaway and I was always the glue or the patient one trying to pull it back together. Always trying to fix it. That's a role I finally had to give up. But if I had given up earlier would that have made a difference? Perhaps he needed to get to a point where he had the maturity? I don't know. Sometimes you have to weigh in your intuition...
With your options I think you have to figure out what will be best for you. What you can live with. For example, what would be the pros and cons of divorce? (and divorce would be much worse to go through than expected) Could you put up with someone who is cheating on you for your kid's sake? (I personally could... since I didn't have a dad living with me, I know what that is like and it's something I would never want my children to have to go through). What's the timeframe you are willing to deal with OW in your life? How much information do you need to be comfortable? (I personally would want to know where everything stands, I don't like being surprised with information so I'd probably keep tabs on what my husband was doing.... I'm still hoping to get the password to his email account one of these days!!!).
There's a lot of things to consider. Since your husband does seem to want to be with you that's a huge plus. I'd look at OW as a challenge. I'd probably try to be such a fabulous wife that she'd completely pale in comparison. I'd be the perfect listener, sex partner, friend, companion... you name it.... and that way if things did seem to get out of hand or H decided to leave... he'd definitely regret it. At the same time I'd still DB, GAL, 180 and do things for me. That way I'm prepared to be happy regardless of where things go.
There is no arriving, ever. It is all a continual becoming.
Running, He seems to be exactly in the space you described here: Did the phone records indicate he's still talking with her? It could mean he's trying to disconnect from her "without hurting her." Sometimes they do that. And sometimes disconnecting from the OW can be a long process. Oddly they can feel guilty about leaving them or having "used them." I know the logic is crazy... like what about us? But it's kind of like how sometimes we treat friends kinder and more respectfully then family or spouses. There's a sort of saving face or wanting to "look good." It's not about the OP, but about the image they've created to that OP and not wanting to lose that or look bad. OP is like a mirror. They like how they see themselves in OP.
They were last talking about a month ago. Since then his treatment of me has been steadily positive. Slowly more affectionate.
The good thing about my H is that he lies with words but not actions. He cannot play two women at once. He has to be loyal to one. So, when he is being cold, aloof, and nasty to me he is most definately in deep contact with her. He has proven this about a dozen times. This alone should tell me how much they speak. I am thinking that if I start feeling the mean alien treatment I can either tell him I know he is up to something, or snoop it out and then throw him out! This way, I can maintain amnesia and being the Olympic winner wife.
He got fired yesterday. He is in the mortgage industry, so I felt it coming. He is not acting scared about our finances, and is talking about how he can get a cheaper car, downsize, etc.
Then he said some fantastic things: "I have realized that so much of life has to do with one's attitude. It is so important to be thankful. It is so hard to not feel entitled."
About his boss: "If the reason I was supposed to work for Bob was to listen to him encourage me to stay with you, then the job was worth it. I told him the other day how much I appreciated him helping me through this time and telling me to do what's best for my family."
"I think it will be really fun living with you and the girls in your apartment. Things will get a lot better between us. I promise."
Soooo, I am in shock about the job and not quite sure where the money is going to come from but I am trying to play it cool. My gut tells me that I better encourage him like crazy right now.
Geez, this has been the Mount Everest of Family Stress year.
Running, I know what you mean about figuring out what I can live with. Also, this is going to become my battle cry: I'd look at OW as a challenge. I'd probably try to be such a fabulous wife that she'd completely pale in comparison. I'd be the perfect listener, sex partner, friend, companion... you name it.... and that way if things did seem to get out of hand or H decided to leave... he'd definitely regret it. At the same time I'd still DB, GAL, 180 and do things for me. That way I'm prepared to be happy regardless of where things go.
I just might right that down and read it several times a day. It is the perfect recipe to combat the OW anger. I can picture her head on the end of my mop as I clean my house beautifully, knowing that my H, who chose ME, will be so pleased with a clean house. Ha!
Here I go! I will be the Flying Tomato Wife...olympic champion with a winning attitude! The Girl
Me: 34 H: 39 M: 11 yrs (7th year was HELL) 3 daughters Survived Affair, 6 month separation Rebuilt marriage Currently stuck
Sorry to hear about your H's job, but it's nice that he's saying some positive things. You are right--H needs encouragement like crazy now. Smart girl!
My mom told me something about a year ago that I will never forget. It's true for you too: ultimately, you are infinitely more powerful than OW. You are the mother of his children, you have the history, you are intelligent and know him well. You are strong and have the power to change the dynamics in your R.
I hope your weekend is nice despite the uncertainties swirling all around you. Try to stay focused on solutions rather than fears. I'm rooting for you!
