Cold differentiation, fusion and stuff.

[fearless]

"you made it up there, you can make it down".

This sounds very shaming to me. Not supportive, not encouraging, not empathic.

Cobra, I'm not sure why this seems shaming to you. You mention shame a lot but there are times I don't think you have a full understanding of what shame is and how it develops. Also look at the facts, Fran's family and mine were tough on us and we don't have shame issues while our husbands families were protective and positive and they seem to be the ones with shame issues.

I can't speak to Fran's family but I talked to a couple of my friends who had similar families to me. Our families were difficult, demanding and tough on us. We were always expected to do our best and there were times where our families have let us know that we have let them down with our mistakes. YET we all feel like our families are always there for us and we do feel loved for who we are. Their demands on us make us feel like we are CAPABLE and not that we are incapable.

What I don't really understand from fran is why "you can do it" sounds so much different to her than "you made it up there, you can make it down." To me that are both statements telling someone they are capable of doing it. Our family was a bit more emotional also so mushiness isn't a problem for me as long as it isn't coddling.

Oddly enough my XH's shame developed in a family where he wasn't told anything negative about himself. So how did shame develop? Because he felt that the only way he was worthy of love was to never to something wrong, to never get critiqued, to not make mistakes, etc. Now who in the WORLD can get through life without making a mistake? Also what kind of relationship can you have with a person if telling them they forgot the milk "makes" them feel shamed???

So really the bottom line about shame versus guilt is that guilt is feeling you DID something bad and SHAME is feeling you ARE something bad. So shame can weirdly enough be developed by these two seemingly opposite behaviors 1)directly telling your child that they are not worthy, are bad, etc. and being mentally abusive or 2) not letting your child know that they have done something wrong because you are so afraid of damaging their self-esteem. Because then they can develop a feeling that they have to hide their "true self" because no one will love them if they really KNOW them.

We all need to develop a feeling that even when we fail, we are NOT failures.

ETA: By the way I think I have heard of HR issues with the latest group of college graduates. They seem to have real issues with taking critical assessment on the job. To hear a criticism seems to hit them very hard. A theory is that they have been treated so delicately that they don't know how to react positively to getting critical feedback. That could be a big problem in the workforce.