Wierdly though in the hap household it seems like it's generally the other way around. H is the one who likes to engage in a pity party and I'm the one trying to see the funny side. He hates it though, he thinks I'm being too frivolous about a serious situation
BTDT- I think in that sort of situation you are supposed to express admiration for the man, as in "It seems like you are dealing with a really challenging situation. I'm sure you can handle it." Of course, it comes down to the same/opposite issue that the man who is trying to be superior might have to deal with which is "How do you express admiration/love for somebody who isn't acting admirable/lovable?" Of course, everybody wants to be loved AND admired but I think Deida's take on the matter would be that at core a woman will care more about being loved and at core a man will care more about being admired. Maybe the way to think about it is that the woman is being lovable when she expresses admiration and the man is being admirable when he expresses love. However, I think there must be some base level at which a decision must be made about whether you are being honest in your expression. A man probably shouldn't be in relationship with a woman who doesn't admire him and a woman probably shouldn't be in relationship with a man who doesn't love her and vice versa but obviously it's all very chicken and the eggy.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Yes it is a bit chicken and eggy. I don't admire you much because all you ever seem to do is wallow in self-pity and get pissy with me if I try to cheer you up. So now I've got to act like I do admire you to help you dig yourself out of this hole. But hey if you need help digging your way out of it what's to admire?
On the occasions when I have said the equivalent of "It seems like you are dealing with a really challenging situation. I'm sure you can handle it."
That is taken as a trite piece psycho-babble with which I'm trying to wash my hands of him.
If I say have you tried X or Y it is taken as trying to be Mrs Fixit and don't I think he would be trying X or Y if it would possibly work.
So really now all I do is say "Poor old you, let me know if there's anything I can do to help". And he shakes his head sadly and takes on an even more long-suffering look. And I skip away to go about my business in the land of happy people that don't bite off more than they can chew, make promises they can't keep, drink and smoke themselves half to death so they're only running on one cylinder, never leave themselves time for R&R etc.
The common thread on this board for me is that my H most closely resembles your 2BX, Corri's X and Fearless' X. It's starting to feel like all the smart girls made the right decision.
Fran
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
Hey! That's not the women's fault - the guys are the ones that like to pick girls with a lower IQ than themselves.
I struck out with the brainy girls too. I think I struck out harder with them for some reason. Maybe they're looking for guys that are smarter than them. Or maybe they're looking for the same guys that normal girls are and would rather be alone than settle for a fellow geek.
I ended up with one of the few "normal" girls that actually likes being around smart guys. Not to the point of wanting to listen to me get really geeky, mind you, but she still wants to be around raw brainpower more than most average girls do and thought I was the most amazing and irresistible guy ever. I'm still not sure how she turned out that way or how the rest of the female population didn't.
a fine and enviable madness, this delusion that all questions have answers, and nothing is beyond the reach of a strong left arm.
OTOH, I *do* (to a relative degree) enjoy understanding what he's working on and what's going on in general. Some days you get the cupcake, some days the broccolini. Some days I enjoy the conversation, some days I'm meeting a need. Savvy?
I savvy, but you still get the cupcake. I don't.
I don't enjoy it per se, but I enjoy being able to give him that listening ear by free choice. "It's just a little service we provide."
In return for this "service" you get the reward of the cupcake. How long can your altruism keep providing this service without the reward?
well, I could tell her about the stuff I read on the BB today...but she's already read it.
Geez CAC, that to me sounds like something you have in common, and a golden opportunity for some real good conversation. I often wish MrsGGB came to the bb so we could discuss some of the stuff that happens here. As it is, I do sometimes bring up stuff from here, and the response is usually along the lines of "you are still going THERE?".
Nope, sounds to me like you are making excuses not to talk, not looking for opportunities to connect. Avoidance is easier, yes, but it gets you nowhere quickly.
You can just say, "I don't like what you're doing and I don't like it to the point where I'm not going to be around it any more." Whether not being around it means for the next five minutes or next hour or next day or the rest of your life is also totally up to you.
If someone is truly, knowingly being abusive to you, then this comment is not likely to have much effect. An abusive person either 1) does not realize s/he is being abusive, 2) knows s/h is being abusive and doesn’t care, or 3) knows s/h is being abusive and does care.
Case 2) may not be so bleak if that person is angry, hurt and in denial, therefore thinking s/he doesn’t care when s/he really does. So for all 3 cases, it is possible that the abuse is just a cry for help, attention, validation, etc, right?
So what will saying "I don't like what you're doing and I don't like it to the point where I'm not going to be around it any more" do to resolve the situation? It might work in case 1 & 3, but not in 2. Then you are faced with following through. So what will you do then? If you feel that person is abusive, and you are trying to be civil, an imbalance already exists and your statement might be a little late and sound like an ultimatum of sorts, and could lead to escalation.
IMO, if you ever have to tell someone else that you will not tolerate such-and-such behavior, then you are already in deep sh*t, and that is as much your responsibility as the other person’s. Better to track the pulse of the “balance” in the R to be sure the above situations does not develop.
Plus why do geeks never work out or wear decent clothes? It would help.
Sometimes I feel like software engineers and other deeply technical guys are engaged in a form of mental MB. They actually don't want to share the mental joys of what they are doing with anyone else. It's done for their own private excitement. You don't get that with philosophers, artists, musicians, poets, writers etc.
What I have experienced with some, not all, geeks, is that many were not athletic or the “jock” type in school. So rather than compete physically, they competed mentally. These kids have to be bright to develop the skills to be a geek, but they also need the drive. For some, being a geek is what they truly like. For others, being a geek is a passive aggressive way to show the “jocks” that they are mentally superior. Yep, even geeks have egos.
Wierdly though in the hap household it seems like it's generally the other way around. H is the one who likes to engage in a pity party and I'm the one trying to see the funny side. He hates it though, he thinks I'm being too frivolous about a serious situation.
This last sentence caught my attention. My middle daughter has in the past said she is a serious person and does not like to joke and play around like some of her friends. She has at times thought my W was not taking her seriously, therefore not validating her, when W was actually trying to lift her spirits.
I have thought on this a lot and believe that D14 is actually uncomfortable with too much mushy feelings because she has not seen that modeled to her, what with all the fighting W and I have done over the years. So even though D14 wants the frivolity, she is uncomfortable with how it feels because she has not experienced it enough. We are aware of this and are working on it. Could this be the same for your H?
cac: I'm just sayin...it would be easier if I had something to talk about that wasn't so obscure, and didn't require drawing diagrams.
So, are you saying that you don't care to draw diagrams? You don't want to take the time, it's too mentally taxing, you're too tired at the end of the day? What? Because, when you do take the time to explain something with a diagram, I do tend to understand it better and I'm less likely to get bored or lost.
I don't learn well through lecture. Never have. Of course in a classroom lecture, I was usually taking notes and drawing my own diagrams, which helped me to learn, at least long enough to get a decent grade on the test, which is another whole problem.
But just to have someone talking AT me, using words and concepts I may not understand, not always giving me the opportunity to ask a "so, in other words...." question to help my understanding, not always giving me the opporunity to say, "hold on there, you lost me, can we go back to when you said "X"....well, that isn't a conversation that will go well for me. My eyes *will* start to glaze over and I *will* start tuning out.
I quite often ask cac questions about things I don't understand, such as why the computer did a certain thing or why the car engine acted a certain way or some such thing. I do it because I *am* interested in how things work, in cause and effect, in patterns.
But inevitably, I will ask such a question and he will go off in lecture mode and he will lose me and I will try to get a time out to get back on track and he won't want to stop talking and then I'm trying to listen to him, only I'm not following him now, and I'm also trying to remember what I wanted to ask him, because I know I will forget it once he does stop talking, and of course, I do forget. Eventually I get the the point where I'm so lost that I just nod and say "umm hmm" and hope he doesn't ask me a question about it that I now can't answer.
just the other day, W informed me that "we" can't go to a party we were supposed to go to this weekend, because my parents ("the retired ones") are too busy to watch S4. I suggested that she could go herself, and I'll stay home w/ s4...she didn't seem very enthused about that.
To me, going to the party meant quality time with you. If I go alone, it's not quality time with you, it's time out with other adults. I have plenty of opportunities for time out with other adults. I don't have many opporunities to spend an evening out with you.
I didn’t read all the way through this thread before I made the above post. Your statement could be true:
So really now all I do is say "Poor old you, let me know if there's anything I can do to help". And he shakes his head sadly and takes on an even more long-suffering look. And I skip away to go about my business in the land of happy people that don't bite off more than they can chew, make promises they can't keep, drink and smoke themselves half to death so they're only running on one cylinder, never leave themselves time for R&R etc.
But if it is as I propose, then your approach may NEVER get him to turn around unless he is somehow able to find it in himself to become comfortable with feeling happy, mushy, vulnerable, as well as letting down defenses. It might be he is scared, it might be he is just not used to it. If he is scared, then his defense stay up for protection and you have a lot of work in front of you. If he just needs to acclimate himself to these new feelings and learn how to become comfortable with them, then it may not be so difficult for you and him.
See my comments to Hap. Do you think any of that could apply to you? Could you be using the technical nature of your job as an excuse to avoid close feelings which might be uncomfortable to you?
