Sorry, CMNM, I didn't see your later question. I was answering your previous post, but you posted at the same time.
What I am saying is that when you say that you are sad at how he sees you, he sees that as needy. And needy is selfish.
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And, is it really obsessing to feel guilty over all of this?
Absolutely. Just change your perspective. AS I said in an earlier post, you need to learn to love yourself.
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Are you just trying to give me a kick in the a$$ to stop feeling sorry for myself and to do something worthwhile?
Exactly.
CMNM, I can see you struggling. You have been coming around for four years. You should be developing a positive outlook on life. You should be developing confidence in yourself. When things are distance, you do fine. But when you see a look towards you by your H, you become less confident. you can do this. You can be happy. I can't tell you that your H will be back. But I know you have to develop a positive outlook in life and with that, you give yourself a better chance to have a better life. I can't guarantee the direction, but I can guarantee the fulfillment you will feel.
Powerful thread title - I often wonder why so many of us find it hard to ask for help
Originally Posted By: CMNM
I know that the optimists in the crowd will say, "hey, he opened up to you!" But it still makes me sad that this is who I am to him. It makes me sad that I couldn't understand what I was doing wrong. I knew something was wrong, but I just couldn't see my way out of it. I wanted to fix it, but kept overshooting the problem and going straight to piecing before I was anywhere near it. Of course this always resulted in feelings of failure and pain for both H and I. I am sorry that I didn't understand his pain. I was too wrapped up in mine. I hate that I was that selfish.
Do you wonder if there are others in your life who feel like he does? Do you want to be different? If yes, what's stopping you changing?
Ouch. Your last post...well, ouch! I went to bed wondering why I reactd to it. As I always tell people here, the posts that piss you off are the ones you really need to examine closely.
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You should be developing a positive outlook on life.
Do I really seem that negative to you? You see, I was actually happy that I was finally understanding. Sad that it took so long, yes, but happy that I hung in there and tried to find a solution.
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What I am saying is that when you say that you are sad at how he sees you, he sees that as needy. And needy is selfish.
Really? Needy and Selfish? I don't feel as if I am asking anything of him. I didn't even ask forgiveness, and I certainly didn't say, "Look, this CAN work between us." I did feel the need to apologize because I could see where I was wrong in this. My apology was a pledge to do better. Not for us as a couple, but for us as people.
Last night I felt like calling on Meredith, who I have actually met, to please come on here and tell people that I am positive. I am fun. I am actually very nice. Heck, I'm in a job where I have to be over the top "up" the whole time I am there. And I think that my H would say the same thing about 80% of the time. It is just that when we get stuck in this same bad communication cycle, I seem to spin right out of control.
Yes, I have been here for as long as you said. Not regularly. In fact, this may be my 3rd thread, tops. It is probably the only one that ever went multiple pages.
I know I am getting defensive. But, if nothing else, I come on here and try to be completly honest. I probably even take responsibility for more of the things that have gone wrong than I should. I don't want to sit around and feel negative, especially about my H. We had built a great life from virtually nothing, and we raised 3 wonderful kids. We did something right, and I do feel good about that.
What does my "positive" life look like to you, IMP? Does it mean not coming here and trying to figure things out? Does it mean not taking responsibility for what I feel I have done wrong? Does it mean not allowing myself to feel badly over the things I have done wrong?
O.K., since this is just being typed out, you have no idea the tone of this. I do need to tell you that I am puzzled, and not angry. I may have been a touch angry last night when I read it, but I quickly figured out that I felt hurt that I was trying so sincerely to be the better person and I felt like you were adding insult to injury.
But, that is what I signed up for here, isn't it? It is the same way I post to other people- harsh and to the point. So, in the end, I thank you for your comments and questions. If what you are seeing is the way I come across, I definately need to change that. You said that I need to love myself. I need to shed a lot of this baggage to get there. It wasn't enough for me to know that what I did was wrong. I wanted to dissect it so I could avoid doing things like it again. I couldn't just distance myself from it and then POW! I Love Myself! It just doesn't work that way.
Another person who goes waaaaaay back on the old BB. Thanks for coming over here to my humble thread. Did you see that Meredith is back? Crazy world, isn't it?
Now, on to your questions...
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Do you wonder if there are others in your life who feel like he does?
My first reaction to this was complete paranoia! As in, "Why? Did Betsey say that about me?" Then I realized that was silly.
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Do you want to be different?
Of course I want to be different. I wasn't saying, hey, I am selfish and proud of it! I don't even know that selfish is the right word in this situation. I am not trying to backtrack out of what I said, but I do need to explain that yes, I was caught up in my own pain. It wasn't that I didn't want to help my H thru his own, it was more that I didn't understand that he had his own. I was feeling like he was blaming me for all of our communication issues. That hurt. I felt like he was saying, "we just can't communicate, so we can't be together." That hurt, too. Here is the one person in my life that I really want to have that deep communication with. Being told that I couldn't brought out the 'fixer' in me who looked ahead to a finish line (good communication), but really didn't set up a path to get there. I guess that could be looked at as selfish. Selfish sounds so mean, though. I think it was more ignorance than anything.
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what's stopping you changing?
Nothing. That is why I am here. I do try to slip in the fact that I am not here to save my marriage, though. I am a smart girl. That ship has sailed. Now, if I were that selfish, I would just move past it all. But, I do not want to make these same mistakes.
Hi CMNM!! How are you?? I have little time but wanted to respond to your post. How courageous that you apologised to your DH!! You know... I did aswell. And you know something else....?? He really appreciated it...after a while (when it became apparent that my communication was much better which made the apology even more sincere.)
About your question....
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I think one of the problems is that you had to hear it from an outsider.
I sense he felt hurt in his pride that it had to come from a different person to get through to you instead of him, your beloved husband!! (Next time (in a different sitch), tell him that you were thinking and recapturing what he has been telling you and saw this pattern which you want to change - keep the credits to yourself and a little to him )
I felt guilt aswell. Did not mean I do not love myself because I feel that guilt can actually be a good thing when you use it in a positive way. It motivated me to change for the best! You ready to roll up your sleeves and work at this thing?? I bet you are!!! You CAN and WILL do this with flying colours!!
So tell me what you think of this, and where I might be a little off.
CMNM's Goals:
Goal: To listen and digest what is being said Steps: Repeat back what was said to me Pitfalls: Interpretation, interjecting my own thoughts
Example: "Just so that I understand you, it would be better for you if I did not act so quickly on home improvement projects?" Let him answer and then repeat that back until everyone is clear. Honest to God, it sounds ridiculous but H and I did that in therapy and it WORKS! (Did I mention our 6 months of therapy? Wonderful stuff this time!)
Goal: To state clearly what I want at the present moment in time Steps: State simple sentences detailing what I am asking for Pitfalls: Over-speaking, disappointment, misinterpreting what I believe others want as what I want.
Example: He knocks on the door. Do I want my own space, or would I like company at the moment? Do I want to talk about the relationship, divorce, marriage, etc? Decide this, and then open the door.
"Hello! I like that color on you. Come on in, I'm going to tell S#3 you're here. Enjoy your show! I'm glad you're here to keep S#3 company, I need a little time alone. Enjoy your show! I'll talk to sometime tomorrow. Goodnight!"
Just remember that YOU can do what YOU want. If you don't feel up to talking on the phone, say that. If you'd like to get together with your H, say that. It might not always happen, but you put it out there and we can all use a little practice in being disappointed. You'll be able to maintain your niceness if you use the right tones!
Goal: To state how I feel in a safe manor Steps to take: Limit your feelings to once sentence Pitfalls: Placing blame for your feelings on others, being disappointed when effort is not made to soothe those feelings, understanding what you REALLY feel.
Happy? Appreciative? Angry? Belittled?
I am happy to see you!
I am confused. Can you please clarify?
I am flattered that you like this shirt.
I appreciate your diligence with the finances.
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So that's my advice! I'd keep it simple and short when it comes to the sensitive topics like feelings or divorce. I would let him drive that bus. When he says something about the lawyer meetings, say that you will be there but don't be afraid to follow it with a thank you for the reminder. Then break down what it is that you want at that moment. Wanting it all to go away doesn't count! Wanting to go out afterward, wanting to be alone, wanting a ride, wanting him to wear a certain shirt are more reasonable and grantable so don't be afraid to ask, even though you might be disappointed if he declines.
"It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere."
--Agnes Repplier, writer and historian
I am sorry that I didn't understand his pain. I was too wrapped up in mine. I hate that I was that selfish.
Pam,
I want to share something that a counsellor told me a couple of days ago, when I was feeling bad about not knowing the things that I know now back when I got married (although I don't really think it would have made any difference).
She said, "When you were in kindergarten, did you know the answer to 3 x 4 - 6?"
I said, "no"
She said, "Does that mean you were stupid?"
Me: no (this really hit home b/c my S5 just started K, so I really know what a kindergartner can do)
It was such a simple analogy, but it somehow got through to me like no other message on that subject has before. I hope this helps you.
~Nicola
Life isn't about finding yourself; it's about creating yourself My thread: Trusting God's Plan
Did not mean I do not love myself because I feel that guilt can actually be a good thing when you use it in a positive way. It motivated me to change for the best!
You still make me laugh. Even with all of this serious stuff. I just am constantly amused over how your mind works.
Thank you for the Goals. P.S., Please call me Pam. I thought we were closer than that. What is this "CMNM" sh!t?
You broke that down wonderfully. I think it will take time, but this is all very doable. Of course, as always, I am the lone wolf here (or the "one wolf"...did anyone ever see that Laverne and Shirley episode? But I digress...)
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Did I mention our 6 months of therapy? Wonderful stuff this time!
Got a name of a good therapist do ya? Mine was a wanker, as you recall.
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we can all use a little practice in being disappointed
Um, with all due respect... I think that I have gone pro here. Can I cut down my practice time???
I can see that goal #3 is going to be kind of problematic. Right now stating how I feel is not a good thing to do. Unless, of course, I am feeling happy. Or sexy. Or horny. (TMI?)
Expressing anger brings more anger back at me. Expressing that I feel belittled brings even more. Do I not know how belittled he felt for many years???? (him speaking) Expressing confusion brings yet more anger. "You are a smart girl, Pamela. Why do you act so stupid when it comes to this?"
So, perhaps goals 1 & 2 are in my immediate future for now.
And, now, we interrupt this program for more of this: Damn! I have missed you!
(TMI?)