If you have never listened to "Dr" Laura, I understand why you may not get all the vitriol her name produces. I have had the misfortune to listen to her radio show, and a more vicious, judgmental, sanctimonious, adversarial voice I have rarely encountered. Perhaps her writing style is different.
This makes a lot of sense to me why there seems to be such opposing opinions of her. When I read her book I was nodding at everything she said. For me it was really refreshing to her a woman who seemed to "get" my male POV. I also found it validating after so many years of hearing that men are stupid emotionally, they don't care about anyone but themselves, and the like. I still think that regardless of how you feel about Dr. Laura personally, if you want to understand men, her book is very good.
He is a software engineer with a focus on database design/data warehousing.
I asked in order to use an example though the thread may have moved on. I'll go with software engineering as a topic, on the assumption this is not a high interest of yours. What if your H comes home to talk to you about this, going on for 15-30 minutes each night, night after night. He may be into it, but you aren't. How many weeks or months can you listen attentively before you start to gloss over? You still do it for him, but it starts to take some effort from you because it is sooooo boring. When do you start to feel like it is work and you'd rather talk about anything else?
Okay, I read some excerpts from Deida's book for women. If I choose to substitute "universal love" or something like that for his use of "God", I don't disagree with what he has to say. In fact, some of it reads just like the kind of erotic romance novel that has an about-to-be-reformed-rogue with serious biceps on the cover. Although, I must admit it cracks me up a bit that he keeps using the word "enormous" or "enormity" to describe the kind of sexual love a woman yearns for. He says that a small percentage of women actually have a balanced male/female sexuality but most women are deeply feminine in their sexuality at core but have alternating protective male and female layers on top of this root sexuality. So, it would seem that he is suggesting that the Superior Man would be able to penetrate these protective layers but also that a woman should try to get in touch with her feminine sexual core which I would interpret to mean that a woman should try to be more vulnerable or open. I actually think I'm starting to get it. My real difficulty with understanding the concept was that it always seemed to me that the suggestion was being made that I should return to a less mature level of sexuality, that I should regress to a feminine shell that would leave me even more encased then any of the masculine ones I inhabit on occasion. Also, Deida does make it clear that not just any man will respond well to an open, vulnerable core feminine sexuality which makes total sense if you think about any of the obvious analogies. The best one I can think of at the moment would be that you want to be like an open door leading into a warm inviting room. (The cow keeps picturing a Norman Rockwell scene in which Thanksgiving dinner is on the table and the Superior Man is pushing an enormous Christmas tree through the door. - lol) Some guys are going to ransack you if you leave yourself open like that and others will feel like they don't deserve that level of comfort. So, like I was thinking, you need to be intuitive and empathetic in order to be vulnerable. Maybe compassionate too, if you can maintain respect and not let it become pity.
Last edited by MJontheMend; 09/13/0706:20 PM.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Chrome, giggle. I am the designated skeptic of my household. He's not a "true believer", but keeps a lot more doors oipen than I ever would. I have gradually come to understand that that world serves the same function for him that science fiction does for me -- sort of a "theater of the possible". Believe it or not, these divergent interests have been one of the number one "growth opportunities" in our marriage. We both slowly painfully (with a lot of bad behavior on both sides) learned to wrap our heads around agreeing to disagree and having that be ok. Most people fight about money or sex ... no, we had to fight about UFOs. In particular, I had to reconcile the fact that he was open to some things I thought were laughable and yet he was still a brilliant man worthy of my respect. He had to learn that I wasn't rejecting *him* when I disagreed with some of his thinking. Where was Schnarch when we were newlyweds?
Cobra, I would be bored out of my mind, you're right. Well, I don't know, 15 minutes would probably be ok. Maybe not every night though. I do try to show an intelligent interest to the best of my ability ... ask questions ... because I want to understand that part of him ... but a lot of it is still over my head. We do discuss work, and sometimes he just needs to vent about the politics ... sometimes at length ... and that's ok. It's ok if he just needs to use me as a sounding board sometimes. But usually we discuss subjects of truly *mutual* interest. Because we're both interested in a lot of things, this usually isn't too difficult.
"Show me a completely smooth operation and I'll show you someone who's covering mistakes. Real boats rock." -- Frank Herbert
He says that a small percentage of women actually have a balanced male/female sexuality but most women are deeply feminine in their sexuality at core but have alternating protective male and female layers on top of this root sexuality.
Fascinating....
And of course there's the other type of man who's afraid his enormous (!) logging boots will soil the lovely carpet and his evil animal lusts will break all the good china ... so he just creeps self-deprecatingly into the room, snatches a scrap of meat, and bolts ....
(this metaphor is overflowing with opportunities for double entendre, but I'm restraining myself ....)
Originally Posted By: MJontheMend
the Superior Man is pushing an enormous Christmas tree through the door.
Still ROFL....
"Show me a completely smooth operation and I'll show you someone who's covering mistakes. Real boats rock." -- Frank Herbert
And of course there's the other type of man who's afraid his enormous (!) logging boots will soil the lovely carpet and his evil animal lusts will break all the good china ... so he just creeps self-deprecatingly into the room, snatches a scrap of meat, and bolts
...or the guy who drives up to the house on a motorcycle and is carrying flowers as he approaches the door but then faints on your porch and you try to be helpful and nice but don't really know what to do because you're only 19 and then you don't hear from him for a while and then you find out that he basically told your mutual friends that he dropped you because you opened your door too readily. Which is why it is sometimes hard to be empathetic and/or compassionate in regards to male frailty.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
(Kett) Burgbud, really? M... Not caring about/appreciating the other person's triumphs (the million dollars) unless and until they meet your own intimate needs (the milk) doesn't sound differentiated ... it sounds intensely selfish. Is that really how Deida sees the feminine? Am I missing the point?
He was only describing what the masculine should strive to be like in that case. He's calling for the man to be utterly differentiated. The example is extreme to make the point.
Whether the woman is differentiated or not can't be determined from that scenario.
Still .... you may not be *dependent* on your mate's response to be happy ... but it still feels good when it's forthcoming .... and what kind of schmuck wouldn't want to rejoice in their partner's joy?
The point is, it's a test.
In a more real world example, let's say your H comes home thrilled after accomplishing a miraculous feat of software engineering. He tries to explain it to you but you just aren't getting it and for whatever reason you're just in a mood so you blow him off.
Case A: He's unconcerned by your apparent lack of appreciation for his genius and continues about his day just as thrilled as before he talked to you.
Case B: He's bummed by your inability to connect with and appreciate his accomplishment. He doesn't react toward you at all but continues about his day significantly more subdued than before he talked to you.
Without worrying about who's right or wrong or what's acceptable or satisfactory, in which case would you find your H more attractive? Project both cases into long term behaviors. If your H consistently behaved as in case A, would you find yourself significantly more attracted to him than if he was consistently case B?
Stop WaitingFeel EverythingLove AchinglyGive ImpeccablyLet Go
If you have never listened to "Dr" Laura, I understand why you may not get all the vitriol her name produces. I have had the misfortune to listen to her radio show, and a more vicious, judgmental, sanctimonious, adversarial voice I have rarely encountered. Perhaps her writing style is different.
This makes a lot of sense to me why there seems to be such opposing opinions of her. When I read her book I was nodding at everything she said. For me it was really refreshing to her a woman who seemed to "get" my male POV. I also found it validating after so many years of hearing that men are stupid emotionally, they don't care about anyone but themselves, and the like. I still think that regardless of how you feel about Dr. Laura personally, if you want to understand men, her book is very good.
I agree with both of you. (ha! I know...how could that possibly be??). allow me to es'plain... I think your assertion is right, that she "reads" better than she speaks. still pretty judgy-wudgy, though. But there are some pearls of truth in all that right-wing punditry. sort of in a "no-bs, down to brass tacks" sort of way. mostly advice of the "you catch more flies with honey..." sort. It seems simplistic (and it is), but its also true that we sometimes need to be reminded of "the fundementals". Problem is...most of her examples seem to be from a demographic that hasn't existed since 1952. Or at least, its not very common, today. (hubby works as the sole breadwinner, wifey stays home to raise the kids). And the wifey always seems to be a rather spoiled, selfish, and shrew-ish sahm, complaining about everything whilst her poor, unappreciated hubby is out slaying those big-ol' dragons all day. This is followed up, of course, with the standard "Dr." laura tough-love..."...you should consider yourself lucky to have such a hubby...". So of course, as a couple of guys, me and Cobra are going to be all "yeah!! what SHE said!!! woof woof woof!". And of course, I think my wife is just SO lucky to be the beneficiary of MY ~fabulous~ draggon-slaying skills, {stop that snickering!!} But the reality is, not many people are in such black-and-white, traditional situations. (I know, this, from the guy who doesn't see "gray". so sue me). anyway...I gotta wonder, given her examples, if she would think very highly of the 90%+ of us who aren't capable of providing the sole support for our families. not that I should care. Its just something that kinda jumped out at me.
Go ahead and read it, it won't hurt ya. Sign it out of the library, if it makes you feel better. Just make sure you do some eye-roll exercises before delving in, so as not to strain yourself.
I asked in order to use an example though the thread may have moved on. I'll go with software engineering as a topic, on the assumption this is not a high interest of yours. What if your H comes home to talk to you about this, going on for 15-30 minutes each night, night after night. He may be into it, but you aren't. How many weeks or months can you listen attentively before you start to gloss over? You still do it for him, but it starts to take some effort from you because it is sooooo boring. When do you start to feel like it is work and you'd rather talk about anything else?
know just what you mean here, too. My job being rather technical in nature...I don't have much to talk about that would be of interest to anyone but another techie. and not just "any" techie; one of my specific ilk. Really obscure, boring sh!t to you mere mortals. But W wants to talk about "my day". (I guess thats really sort of the opposite problem...same result, though). because...she's a girl, and thats what girls do. Usually, it only takes 10-15 seconds of me talking about "my day" before her eyeballs roll back into her head. But it still doesn't satisfy her need. she wants me to have something interesting to say...but I don't. The "set-up" thats required to explain anything that might happen to be on my mind takes way more than the thought itself...it just ain't worth it. Kind of like having to explain a joke. it just isn't funny anymore.
Oh, my. I'm surprised you even still *had* a cow/swan/whatever we're calling it at the moment -- nurturing animal -- after that ....
Reminds me of a long-term boyfriend who broke up with me (according, again, to mutual friends) because I was "too nice". I still don't know what that was code for, but it rankled for years ....
"Show me a completely smooth operation and I'll show you someone who's covering mistakes. Real boats rock." -- Frank Herbert
Burgbud, yep. Case A. Much sexier. Because his joy/confidence isn't dependent on my ability to muster enthusiam (or not, for whatever reason) at that specific moment. Then it's authentic joy. I can respect that a lot, because it take the pressure off me to be the perfect cheerleader. Which frees me to be a much *better* cheerleader, because I'm genuinely happy with/for him, not just feeling trapped into being the sole prop and stay.
I get it.
I still think this applies to both genders, though. But I understand this book is aimed at men.
"Show me a completely smooth operation and I'll show you someone who's covering mistakes. Real boats rock." -- Frank Herbert
I wish you could convince me that you are as dull as you are trying to convince us all that you are... how about giving 'impressions' of your day? Things you've noticed... do you ever people watch when you eat lunch? Go for a walk? As far as days go, where would you rate it on a scale of 1 to 10... 10 being the best work day ever. Be prepared to explain your answer...
And of course, I think my wife is just SO lucky to be the beneficiary of MY ~fabulous~ draggon-slaying skills, {stop that snickering!!}