The message from your H is very much in line with what I was thinking. What I was going to guess is that he left you because you are much more highly differentiated than him.
So which is it? Are you now agreeing with me that it is possible to NOT fuse in intimate relationships?
Based on what you say of your support network, I stand by my thoughts. What I hear you saying is that you have not become fused because you surround yourself with healthy people who also provide good support for you. You’ve had this all your life, so I consider you very lucky. I can see how you may have had differentiation modeled for you and I can even see how fusion may have been a foreign concept to you at one time.
But I am still not convinced that if a person has such a support network, s/he is truly differentiated. I think such a person may be sheltered, though not necessarily. So if this is the case, then has such a person ever really confronted with the threat of fusion?
Again I did NOT receive constant VALIDATION from my family. I received constant ACCEPTANCE. A significant difference, I think.
I agree there’s a difference, but I don’t know how significant. For someone who gets neither, either one can be a Godsend.
It was. So what is the real question? If you are asking if it is incredibly difficult for someone who has not received acceptance in life to learn to accept themselves for whom they are, I will ABSOLUTELY agree with you that it must be difficult. Again though, being difficult is not the same as being impossible.
The italicized part sounds a lot like your statement about losing weight, exercising, etc.
I think people are scared of the work it will require. They are afraid they will not be able to do it and then they will feel even worse about themselves. Usually the bad habit is a coping mechanism for other issues in their lives so they would have to face their issues without their coping mechanism. It is very difficult to give up a coping mechanism.
There is something in this and the italics above that bothers me. This answer seems too contrite, too insensitive, too superficial. I can also see how you would see it that way front the vantage point of having a full support network behind you. But IMO, you are an exception. Most of the people on this board, and just about everyone I can think of who I know intimately enough, do not have such a network. Your statement does not pick up the hopelessness, the despair, the depression that accompanies these “coping mechanisms.” There is so much more involved in gaining excess weight, not being motivated to exercise, etc.
I work very hard at not being resentful. Being resentful occurs when I am not true to myself. I do not like the feeling of resentment so I prevent it by acting authentically.
This statement reminds me a lot of the Japanese mindset and the overriding social values all of that society adheres to. I am not condemning it. I admire it greatly, but there are negatives, and the shame based control of that society is one of the negatives. But asked them why they act as they do and you get an answer similar to yours.
No I have not HAD to deal with sh!t alone (although I have chosen to do so occasionally). Again I am very grateful for this fact. Now I did handle my first separation COMPLETELY on my own but that was my choice. If I had needed, my family and friends would have been there for me of that I am certain.
Which is sort of my point. With such a network, there is no stress. You have family to fall back on. When I was younger and moving between jobs, I did not stress over it. I could move back in with my parents for a while until something turned up. My wife did not have such a luxury. By that age, she did not have either parent. Not working was a lot more serious issue for her, a cause for anxiety, even panic. Your example is not even in the ballpark.
I do not look for others to validate me. I am actually very open to having disagreements. Rather I would state it as I put so much effort into validating myself so that I do not require others to validate me.
Why would you need to worry about validation? You have a supporting and accepting network. When would your need for survival ever be called into question?
Do you go to lengths to preempt any possible future invalidation by relentlessly trying to smooth things over and keep the peace?
Nope.
I can see why you wouldn’t. Again, you’re lucky to not have to.
It might seem insignificant but there is huge POWER in stating "I feel upset when people cut in front of me" versus "people make me so upset by cutting in from of me." The first statement is me owning my feelings and the second is me being a victim to others actions.
You’re right. It seems insignificant, especially when compared to deciding which of the following should be used: “I am angry at that guy for firing me so I don’t have money to eat” versus “I feel angry that I did something wrong to get fired and now I don’t have enough money to eat.” At this point, who gives a flip which is more empowering.
Wow, then I am being completely UNCLEAR. Peace and harmony are NOT my overriding objectives. They were my XH’s but not mine. Because a family member, spouse, close friend, work colleague, etc. does not agree with me DOES NOT mean that they do not value me.
Yes… I understand now that you have this security, but did your H understand this too?
Okay I had to laugh!! If I wanted to avoid confrontation and disagreement, then why in the WORLD would I be "talking" to you??!!
Not considering you talking to me here, I have seen you do a lot of peace making or referee type posts between two dueling posters. This is where I get the idea that you want to avoid confrontation and disagreement, or maybe it is hard feelings.
Yes a man's purpose should stay number one. How does listening to your wife's problems put your purpose second and how does listening to her problems compromise you? Seriously again. The way I understood it is that listening to your wife annoyed and frustrated you. You did not say that listening to her distracted from your life's purpose.
It doesn’t distract from my purpose (unless I happen to be working on something). Go back to Dieda for a second… On page 93 he states “Because you expect your intimate relationship to serve so many purposes, it begins to veer toward the utilitarian. By constantly talking about finances, work, household, and children, you turn your woman into a neutral companion.”
Also, let me pull up Mojo’s post on the previous page of this thread: “Also, I find that I almost reflexively reject men whose primary purpose doesn't interest me. For instance, I can't date a man who is a hockey coach because I know the relationship wouldn't work because I would be like "How did the game go, honey? Did you team score any touchdowns? (yawn)"
Both these statements support the idea that a man should not bore his woman with mundane matters that bore her. I believe the reverse is true as well, yet here I have several women (even a guy) saying that this rule does not apply to men? Now ask yourself, what has Mojo’s comment not drawn any criticism?
I talk to my wife about her job related topics, about the kids, etc (like I haven’t said this for the 10th time!), but too much bores me. What’s wrong with that? Corri mentioned on mythread that my W and I should talk a walk, go to dinner and talk about us. Now that is a conversation that I could actually enjoy for a period of time. I would also like to talk about the financial markets, the economy, world events, philosophy. But I only want to hear so much about her work. Its just not my cup of tea. Can you get that?
I feel that a part of your "message" has a subtle emasculation of men that sort of turns me off the more I think of it. Sorry, that's just how I feel.
???????????????
The reason I said this was you insistence that I should cater to my wife’s needs, put first in my mind her emotional state, be sure I am the sensitive caring guy a woman should have by talking to her as much as she needs, etc. That is not me. I can do some of that, and I do. But I don’t focus myself on catering to or indulging my wife.
