I originally posted this in the Newcomer's forum but someone who responded mentioned that it sounded like a MLC (H35) so I thought maybe someone here could help.
Original Story -- I've been Dbing for 6 months now. I got the first bomb in early November 2006 (He claimed his life would be so much better without me) I did all the typical wrong begging pleading stuff for three months. Then I got a second more concrete bomb in early February. (He said he couldn't stand me and wanted to date other people -- I am 99.999% sure there is no one else. His time is pretty accounted for.)
That week I was prescribed anti-anxiety meds and read DR. I finally expressed to him that he had to do what would make him happy and I wasn't going to stop whatever he felt like he needed to do. The meds helped me control my pleading and I was able to DR pretty effectively.
We are in a bit of debt and he wanted to sit down and "crunch" the numbers. I happily sat and listened and we basically agreed that because of the debt we could not afford to maintain 2 households so we would have to live together until we could pay down some of the debt. The next day we went to see our marriage counselor for one last visit to discuss how we should tell our children (son 10 and daughter 4)
We were trading off sleeping on the couch and in our bed for about a week but after that counseling session where later even the counselor said how impressed he was with the level of loving detachment I expressed, my husband seemed to come a little closer. He started calling me again for no reason and even climbed back into our bed with me. We started hanging out together again and seemed to get along really well. We went on a weekend away that we had planned prior to the second bomb and even continued having sex on a regular basis. My dbing efforts seemed to be paying off. He wouldn't tell me he loved me or make any promises but we seemed to be going in a good direction.
In late February he was given the opportunity to purchase an antique truck from a family friend. It has alway been his biggest dream to own a truck (which to some extent I had squelched) and this truck was in perfect condition and a real steal. However, in making the decision to purchase the truck we got further away from the goal of paying off the debt which bothers him tremendously. It seemed since making the decision to purchase the truck he has slowly moved closer to me with the occasional backslide from me or pulling back from him. There was one major time just before he was to pay for the truck that he decided he would not get it and he would take his savings, retirement, and sell his vehicle to pay off the debt and be out of my life by the end of the year. At first I tried to convince him that he was giving up on a huge opportunity to fulfill his biggest dream. Then I backed off and told him it was his life and he needed to do what was best for him. That same week the guy selling the truck called and wanted to seal the deal. My husband, wanting the truck so badly and not wanting to go back on his word, agreed to send the money that week.
After that (about the end of May) he moved even closer. We went back to the marriage counselor (although he is VERY quiet in the sessions and says they are more for me) and I even heard several unsolicited I love yous. However, he does periodically remind me that nothing has changed. Because of the debt he maintains that he does not have the choice to leave so therefore he does not have the choice to stay. And will go so far as to remind me that he is actually moving several thousand dollars in the other direction because of the truck.
This week has been particularly hard because I want to see him happy because he's achieving a life long dream (he goes to get the truck out of state next week) but he just seems sadder because he's "moving in the other direction." He's gone from saying things like he's happily married and he'll be here for me forever and ever to he was just playing nice because he's stuck with me.
Please give me some wise dbing advice or even a 2x4 because maybe I really need it. I don't know how to act because we have a fake marriage. Many times if you were a fly on the wall in our house you would not know there was anything wrong. I know I'm supposed to get a life which I'm really trying to focus on but the constant up and down is killing me. I keep getting sucked in and spit out. I can't stand this fake relationship we have right now. One minute he's professing his love and the next he's telling me he's just playing nice because he's stuck. I know I'm not supposed to believe anything he says and only half of what he does but then how do I believe anything??? I just am becoming more and more broken from this roller coaster of emotions. I'm only 36 but I'm starting to look "rode hard and put away wet" from the constant stress. I don't want to lose him–I think there's a good guy in there but he seems to think he doesn't have to make a decision until he's debt free which could be 2 years. One of his major complaints was that I was overly controlling so I've really backed off on that and part of me wonders if this is just his way of exercising control over me. He even says things like "you've only been unhappy for 9 months, talk to me in 13 years" which is how long we've been married.
Latest Struggles How do you balance excepting the things you did wrong in your relationship and validating the hurtful things your spouse spews at you with your pride and the basic human need to protect yourself?
Sometimes all the heinous things my H has said and done to me just all come flooding back -- the almost daily rudeness, or saying he wants to date other people, or saying that he doesn't have to care about anyone but himself, and that he's only being nice (having sex, buying gifts, cuddling, spending lots of free time together) so we can be civil or how about "I don't even like you. I hope you don't get cancer but beyond that I could care less what happens to you."
How are we supposed to bounce back from those hurtful things? My friends think I'm a fool for having tolerated my H's issues for as long as I have (over 9 months on this seemingly neverending rollercoaster.) I'm starting to wonder if I'm fighting for my marriage because I must not think very highly of myself to tolerate this crap. Should I be setting boundaries about how he can treat me? Where is the line between trying to prevent your divorce by validating what your spouse spews at you and sticking up for yourself? I feel like I'm walking a fine line between trying to save my marriage and being The Doormat Of The Year.
Any thoughts would be helpful. Thanks
Me -- 36 H -- 35 S10 D4 Married 13 years Bomb 1 -- November 5, 2006 Bigger Bomb 2 -- February 3, 2007 H still at home
Thank you so much for the reply FriendlyOne. I really appreciate your thoughts. Do you think faking it will ultimately get me to the goal I want. Believe me if it would I could fake it for a really long time.
We've been faking it for nine months now and it hasn't gotten us anywhere. I pushed (I know not the right thing to do) a little last Thursday and he actually came back at me with the same hateful venom I got when the bomb was first dropped--"I can't stand you. You're selfish. You look at everyone in your life and wonder what they can do for you. Scratch me a check and you'll see what I really want." His story hasn't change at all. Now I haven't been the best DBer but I have tried. I am a waaaaaaay better person than I used to be but he sees no change. He is often quite rude and sometimes hateful and sometimes the faking it 'til I make it just seems phony and like I'm just spinning my wheels. I think I'm stuck in a cheeseless tunnel and I can't find my way out. From day one I've continued to do the loving, caring things I always did for him. I've learned enough to not expect anything from my acts of kindness but that is what's making me feel like a doormat. I make dinners for him, do his laundry, make sure his drinks are cold, buy him things he requests and sometimes even more and then he screams that he can't stand me. I'm not doing anything above and beyond what I ever did in our relationship, although I do try to be a little more thoughtful occasionally so he can see that I am trying to be a more considerate person. I'm just frustrated because I feel like I'm faking a nice comfortable marriage for him just until he can afford to leave me. I'm starting to feel used.
I'm sorry to vent and I do really appreciate your thoughts. I'm just struggling with how long I should fake it.
Me -- 36 H -- 35 S10 D4 Married 13 years Bomb 1 -- November 5, 2006 Bigger Bomb 2 -- February 3, 2007 H still at home
I'm hoping to get some advice from those of you who have a greater understanding of what is going on in the MLCer's head. Any would be appreciated.
I was recently reading some posts regarding setting boundaries and the MLC spouse needing to feel the loss and the consequences of his/her actions. Well, my H is still living in the house (we cannot afford to live separately with our current debt). He sleeps in our bed because its comfortable and we don't want to upset the children. Through this whole ordeal I have remained nice--probably too much so. He's definitely been cake eating and has been emotionally and verbally abusive. I've decided to set the boundary of leaving the room when he starts in on stuff like that.
I haven't really minded continuing to "act like his wife" in taking care of the house, fixing meals or helping him out. But I've been doing that for 10 months now and I'm starting to think that is more of the same that seems to just be perpetuating the situation.
I'm starting to question whether I have any self-respect but I also feel deep down that he really is in a crisis and just don't know how much to believe from him. He insists vehemently that when he can afford it he will be gone before I know it and that he really truly hates me. He's said it so much that I feel like I'm just being dense and stupid if I don't listen. The last time he spewed at me he said, "I don't think you get the finality of it." My two best friends, who know us well and have lived this with me, feel like there has to be some cut and dry end to the old relationship for there to even be a chance at a new one. How can I go dark or dim (and truly "drop the rope") while he's still in my house and my bed.
Me -- 36 H -- 35 S10 D4 Married 13 years Bomb 1 -- November 5, 2006 Bigger Bomb 2 -- February 3, 2007 H still at home
Let me ask you straight up. How much can he really hate "you"? And why would he? I am not asking why he says he does. Just why should he.
If he would rather sleep in a comfortable bed with you, and sometimes eat cake, does that sound like someone that really really hated you so bad?
It's no surprise others will encourage you to bring this to a head. Most of our parents took that angle when seeing us in pain. They feel as betrayed as you do. They feel pain just as you do. So do close freinds. That doesn't make them bad. But this is about you. What do you want?
If you are having trouble finding respect for yourself then it may be time to rethink. It may be time to tell H you understand what he has said, it doesn't need a lot of repeating. Stop getting drawn into R talks. Explain you would not have physical relations with some stranger off the street, and if H hates you so bad, it would make no sense to do so with him any longer either.
That said, can you respect yourself for knowing what you want, and doing the best you can to reach that goal in spite of what others want you to do? If you believe H is not himself but that there are moments of connection during intimacy, and you can handle that, some mlc survivors have used that to maintain some link to MLCer.
So like I said, this is about you not H, what do you want?
JAD Sorry your here, but you have a great opportunity to work on your M. There are no "fixes" you just have to wok at it. Have you read the "five love languages" yet, if not you might want to pick up a copy.
Forget the past, b/c it's history, concentrate on your tomorrows.
No guarantees, but take advantage of the opportunities presented to you right now.
Good luck
"Worry is the price you pay for most of the things in life that never happen"
JAD Sorry your here, but you have a great opportunity to work on your M. There are no "fixes" you just have to wok at it. Have you read the "five love languages" yet, if not you might want to pick up a copy.
Forget the past, b/c it's history, concentrate on your tomorrows.
No guarantees, but take advantage of the opportunities presented to you right now.
Good luck
"Worry is the price you pay for most of the things in life that never happen"
Ugh. It just makes me sad. I'm so sorry he is making you crazy and saying hurtful things. I empathize with you. You do ask good questions: how do we ever forgive and forget the hurtful remarks? I don't know. I'm still dealing with that, and I'm not even reconciling.
I hate to sound like a broken record but there really won't be anything YOU can do about how your husband feels. He's going to make choices; I hope they end up being good ones. They might not be. But it sounds like he is very indecisive, which benefits you. At least he isn't running out the door whether you can afford it or not.
I think coming here for support is a great plan. And you do sound like you have it together; it isn't easy, I know. Keep being detached, because he seemed to respond well to this. Let him come to you.
Most of us really marry only once. First love endures, even unto our dying day. And we never really divorce.
Well, I've been half-ass DBing for 10 months or so and its gotten me nowhere. My husband claims he is only staying with me and in our house because he can't afford to move out--which is true. We were faking having an okay marriage for a few months but when I pushed and accused him of "stringing me along," he withdrew alot. He stopped touching me almost all together (except for the rare sexual interaction--usually somewhat initiated by me.) He actually acts as if I have cooties.
So now that he's withdrawn further. I don't know if I should continue to be his wife (even though he is not my husband)and do the things wives do or should I go dim so he has to see what he will lose when he does leave. I'm a planner and I need a plan as to how I'm going to act with him over the next year while we're paying down our debt.
Sometimes, I think he feels emasculated because he is not where he wants to be financially. We are no where near where people who make what we make should be as far as financial well-being. Is it possible that if we got our finances in order and he felt he had some of the things he wanted in life would he remember that he really does love me or are the finances just an excuse? My friends think he either loves me or doesn't and nothing else should affect that feeling. I know I'm not making any sense but I feel like I'm drowning.
Me -- 36 H -- 35 S10 D4 Married 13 years Bomb 1 -- November 5, 2006 Bigger Bomb 2 -- February 3, 2007 H still at home
Hi--I was struck by your H's continued treatment of you. IMHO he is being verbally abusive to you to a degree that is hard to see from inside the relationship.
I would like to suggest a book about VA that a friend of mine bought for me when I told her how my H was talking to me. As I read it, I wished I had realized some things years earlier (29 year marriage, now in a trial separation, but getting better). I realized my husband's anger was about him, and he was using VA to provoke me to anger, so he could conveniently blame me for his unhappiness. The book is not a DBing book, but it pretty effectively describes how to do a 180 when your H is saying a lot of mean things to you. It is "The Verbally Abusive Relationship"by Patricia Evans.
To me, it sounds like your H does not actually want to leave you, but he is blaming you for his unhappiness because you are right there. Yes, he loves you, but he also is indulging himself in a lot of resentment. Not fair, but there it is.
I do think DBing is the best shot at improving and saving a M. I agree with was2sad that it is time to stop the R talk. I am sure that you understand that you need to not defend/explain. You will be doing yourself and your H a huge favor if you stop letting him repeat these mean things to you. (Some day you will talk about your relationship again, but it will not be this conversation...)
One mistake I kept making was to try to explain/defend and fix the the things I saw as unfair blaming or just general irritability/anger. It was surprisingly effective when I stopped talking about "the merits" of the thing he was saying to me, and just said something calm, like, "I don't like the way you are talking to me" or "Please stop scolding me" and then (this is important) left the room. Later, I would treat him "as if" and have some small positive interaction, so he knew I was not bearing a grudge.
You have some valuable time here to work on your M. You are clearly on the right track. You saw some of the positive results of DBing. It is time to stop being half-assed about it.
Don't just back off 90%--back off 100%. Treat yourself with the pride and self-respect that you want your children to have in their future Ms. It is very hard to stop reacting to the cruel things that your H keeps saying to you. Do yourself (and him and your children) a favor, and (calmly and genuinely without anger) stop allowing it. Perhaps, when he starts to talk about this again, you could tell him that you understand that he will do what he needs to do, and then calmly excuse yourself and leave the room. (I have found that it didn't work unless I left.)
Good luck, and please let us know how it is going. FG
