I'm running out of names for threads...

[AmyC]

Frank I am very much aware that there is a root cause to this dysfunction and that it is not the alcohol. Hell just the other night my husband himself referred to alcohol as his "medicine". I get it. I've never been one to say "My husband is sick. He can't help himself". Bullcrap. He's just gotta wanna. But I do believe there is something to be gained by looking into Alanon/Alateen to help me and my kids. If nothing else, it's better than continuing to deny and enable 'cause that sure as hell hasn't gotten us anywhere and I have literally watched him climb further into the bottle over the last few months.

[COG]

AmyC,

Alot of ground HAS been gained. We HAVE come through a lot. We HAVE had some beautiful interactions. To be right back here facing this beast makes it seem like I've gone nowhere but what if I'm right back here because I have been through all the rest already?

Yep, I think you've hit the nail on the head. You've gone to hell and back, that's where you've gone. You've been in dreamland, semi-blind. But now things are coming clear. You've been beating yourself up over your failings for a long time, blinded by remorse, but now you are beginning to accept the fact that your H is very sick, weak, flawed, you pick the label. Don't get me wrong I know your failings, and I know you still have remorse, but you taken the right steps towards healing, growing, and forgiveness.

Instead of looking at this like the straw that's about to break this camel's back, I might try looking at it like I'm finally back in the appropriate position to fight what I should have been fighting before my MLC.

I love it AmyC, you nailed it. The choice is the same as before your MLC, to fight or to flight.

I'm looking into Al-Anon and I'm getting myself that counselor, too. And my Pastor. Because we might not be able to counsel a demon but we can damn well bind one.

Amen sista!! I'm with ya!

FrankD isn't very impressed with AA, and he's right that it's got to be a individual's choice. Just like DB there's no magic bullet. "Yep just show up to AA and your alcholism just magically disappears". I'd guess that 9 out of 10 people that go probably have that fantasy. But 1 in 10 make it according to Frank's stats.

It's a program, a step by step approach to healing oneself from the inside out. When the program is followed, it's more about healing, growing, and coping than it is about quitting drinking. The 12 steps pretty much cover every inner demon imaginable. But Frank is right, no matter what the approach, the individual has to choose.

My late brother and his W both went through rehab, and AA. It was the most inspiring process I've ever witnessed. They are my hero's. My bro was sober for 5 years before he was killed, my SIL about 20 years now. Both of them used alchohol and drugs to medicate two very sad and hurt inner beings. Both used rehab and AA as a compass to lead them to health.

There's only one way to know which direction is the right direction, TRY!

You are an inspiration AmyC. It always impresses me when you finally come out of the haze, and see clear again.

God Bless,

COG

[AmyC]

I'm not so sure that I don't prefer the haze in a way, COG.
Ignorance is false bliss I know, but this reality is going to mean bad things have to occur before this sitch gets any better. Namely, calling my husband on the alcohol thing at some point. I never could stand up to it, except when I was that nasty MLCer. And I can't say that I "stood up" to it so much even then, but rather used it as my own defense for my actions...God can this friggin nightmare get anymore twisted???

I see now that I did so much tap dancing around it to shield the kids before...made excuses, intervened when "discussions" weren't going well, straight up lied sometimes...I kept it in for a long time, then went batty myself. Now here I am. And you know I have that 15 months, after he came back after the first separation, when I was still "out there"...he was sober then, going to anger management and AA and he was better than I'd ever seen him....yet somehow I still couldn't SEE him...DAMMIT! When he started slipping after a year or so, when he lost all his hope...I let that justify me again and it makes me sick. Then, when he started the process to get his license back he was ordered into ASAP and that led to AA again. But he played it. I know he started out well, but he didn't have it in him to keep fighting because the way my husband thinks is - to have lost his family, he didn't give a damn anymore. So he played it. Plus, living with his parents he might as well have lived in a bar. I knew that would be a struggle, and I knew he drank at times, but I saw the pride he had over those damn groups...but he also had guilt BECAUSE he drank sometimes. He said he felt like a fraud. I never thought he'd fall headlong back into it with D11 in the house, though. How stupid was that? I KNEW, I WROTE HERE, how hard it would be for him when he moved in the house and S14 and I were gone...I knew it and yet I believed...but it wasn't long before he was bringing liquor into the house. D11 used to express her displeasure at his drinking and I know it affected him. But instead of her conditioning him, he conditioned her and now she's his protector and his enabler. And I have continued to be, as well.

[lost-n-found]

COG,

Your insight and words of support are amazing! This board is very lucky to have you around and I for one am so inspired by your wisdom. You rock!!


Amy,

I'm glad to hear that you have decided to look into Al-Anon... it really is a wonderful program. Not just for helping the enabler to stop enabling but to help discover inside yourself what makes you an enabler. When my ex H relapsed I found help and support there. I still have the book.... and you are welcome to it... if you like.... just let me know, I'll be happy to send it to you.

Your position now may just be the very spot that that God intended all along. With everything you've been through you have gained valuable wisdom and strength to carry you through to the next phase... that of tough love tempered with compassion. You know firsthand the feelings of being lost and the fierce pride/fear that keeps you there.

Not one of us here can know just what you go through... we may all have the ability to relate to different circumstances but having read through the changes as they have unfolded.... one thing seems clear... God is guiding you and will complete the good work He began in you. The path of joy runs straight through the heart of pain and suffering.

"Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross."
Heb.12:2

I'm praying for you girlie... and I am continually amazed by your getting right back up after every 'death blow' you get dealt. Hang in there.... joy cometh....

~lost

[COG]

I'm not so sure that I don't prefer the haze in a way, COG.

Reality bites sometimes.

Ignorance is false bliss I know, but this reality is going to mean bad things have to occur before this sitch gets any better. Namely, calling my husband on the alcohol thing at some point.

Think baby steps AmyC, baby steps. You don't have to turn the pot over all at once. Just pour out a little at a time. Start by arming yourself with tools and information. As always, start with YOU!

I never could stand up to it, except when I was that nasty MLCer. And I can't say that I "stood up" to it so much even then, but rather used it as my own defense for my actions

It's water under the bridge AmyC. We all know that MLC did'nt work for ya, so let's try something different this time. Try using all the gifts the Lord has given you. Wisdom, faith, courage, sense of humor, and tenacity. Believe in yourself, believe in the Lord, and embrace the mission He has chosen for you!

I see now that I did so much tap dancing around it to shield the kids before...made excuses, intervened when "discussions" weren't going well, straight up lied sometimes

They call it being an enabler, or co-dependant and you are definately not alone.

I kept it in for a long time, then went batty myself.

You went batty because you kept it in. You knew it was wrong, but you did'nt think you deserved better.

he was sober then, going to anger management and AA and he was better than I'd ever seen him....

Now save those words AmyC. You H needs to hear them from YOUR lips. You can berate him, critisize him, push and pull him, but those words are most likely to move him.

he didn't have it in him to keep fighting because the way my husband thinks is - to have lost his family, he didn't give a damn anymore.

Sad, but that was his own sick thinking. I could have gone the same route, thought the same thing, and justified doing to immoral things that I was constantly tempted with. I chose otherwise, and he could have to. That wasn't your fault, that was his weakness, his poor judgement.

I knew it and yet I believed...but it wasn't long before he was bringing liquor into the house.

Hopefully you won't beat yourself up over that. Trust me, at Alanon, you'll meet a whole bunch of people that got suckered in just like you.

But instead of her conditioning him, he conditioned her and now she's his protector and his enabler. And I have continued to be, as well.

Well I guess you can see how you've contributed to the delinquency. No problem, just do some 180's and change your world.

Love,

COG

[AmyC]

God is guiding you and will complete the good work He began in you

That's exactly what my Pastor's wife used to say to me.
I know the scripture, but she said it just like that.

But you know what I DON'T CARE.
I'd sit right in hell for eternity if Jeff and my kids could just be okay. I know that isn't how it's supposed to be but I'd do it.

I want HIM to complete the WORK HE BEGAN IN MY HUSBAND BEFORE!
He has dragged me out of the pit. WHEN IS HE GOING TO GET JEFF?

You know what?
I already know the answer.
When Jeff starts climbing.
Actually, the way it popped in my head just now was "when Jeff starts reaching up".

*&^#$*%$*(#^%@^%&**^%(^

[braveheart]

God is guiding you and will complete the good work He began in you

That's exactly what my Pastor's wife used to say to me.
I know the scripture, but she said it just like that.

But you know what I DON'T CARE.
I'd sit right in hell for eternity if Jeff and my kids could just be okay. I know that isn't how it's supposed to be but I'd do it.

I want HIM to complete the WORK HE BEGAN IN MY HUSBAND BEFORE!
He has dragged me out of the pit. WHEN IS HE GOING TO GET JEFF?

You know what?
I already know the answer.
When Jeff starts climbing.
Actually, the way it popped in my head just now was "when Jeff starts reaching up".

*&^#$*%$*(#^%@^%&**^%(^

Amy, I truly wish that you could get to OK. I have followed your stich for almost 2 years and I have never seen anyone fight harder, want it more, and really bust your tail working for yourself, your H, and your family. I know that "life isn't fair" is one of the oldest catch phrases out there, but its so not fair to you. I honestly wish you the very best and hope that it can work for you.

[Virtually_Handsome]

Looking really hard, putting the rose colored glasses on, maybe there is a teeny, tiny, silver lining. Now that you are where you are, and seeing pretty darned clearly, you have a lot better view of what you are up against. And it is something that you know can be beaten. As has been said, in the end, it is Jeff's decision, but at least you can finally take some action aimed a a specific objective. Fighting this problem is in some ways less vague that DBing on its own, it seems to me. And if anyone can do it, I've become convinced it is AmyC!

((((AmyC))))

OJ

[frank_D]

Frank I am very much aware that there is a root cause to this dysfunction and that it is not the alcohol. Hell just the other night my husband himself referred to alcohol as his "medicine". I get it. I've never been one to say "My husband is sick. He can't help himself". Bullcrap. He's just gotta wanna.

I figured you did, just wanted to put out my own experiences and observations. You talked about what you could do to get him working on this issue. One thing is to talk to him about how he's medicating himself, and doesn't it piss him off that a 'substance' has such a hold on him?

And of course, what is really going on inside him that he feels like he needs to medicate?

Lastly, he needs to talk to another MAN. Not necessarily a 'recovered alcoholic' per se but a man who has had the downs he's had. Men need the input and company of other men to sort out their crap.

But I do believe there is something to be gained by looking into Alanon/Alateen to help me and my kids. If nothing else, it's better than continuing to deny and enable 'cause that sure as hell hasn't gotten us anywhere and I have literally watched him climb further into the bottle over the last few months.

I think you are right about this also.

I'm not saying AA or Al-Anon have no value. I'm saying that they aren't the 'saviour' they are made out to be.

COG, it's not '1 in 10', it's "1 in 100 do not stay in AA and 'get sober'".

[AmyC]

God is guiding you and will complete the good work He began in you

That's exactly what my Pastor's wife used to say to me.
I know the scripture, but she said it just like that.

But you know what I DON'T CARE.
I'd sit right in hell for eternity if Jeff and my kids could just be okay. I know that isn't how it's supposed to be but I'd do it.

I want HIM to complete the WORK HE BEGAN IN MY HUSBAND BEFORE!
He has dragged me out of the pit. WHEN IS HE GOING TO GET JEFF?

You know what?
I already know the answer.
When Jeff starts climbing.
Actually, the way it popped in my head just now was "when Jeff starts reaching up".

*&^#$*%$*(#^%@^%&**^%(^

Amy, I truly wish that you could get to OK. I have followed your stich for almost 2 years and I have never seen anyone fight harder, want it more, and really bust your tail working for yourself, your H, and your family. I know that "life isn't fair" is one of the oldest catch phrases out there, but its so not fair to you. I honestly wish you the very best and hope that it can work for you.

Oh boy, Braveheart...I do appreciate your good wishes but I can't get on that "life's not fair" hobbyhorse. No, sireee. I'd ride that sucker into the ground and end up like my mother if I did. Which reminds me, my mom actually started going to a counselor about a month ago. So much for that "you can't counsel a demon" thing...Okay, okay, that was mean. I'm really rather proud of her and I resisted the urge to say "it's about damn TIME!".

Anyway, thanks.
Since I apparently ain't gonna be let OFF this ride, I reckon I will see it through to the end and just pray it's not bitter. I'm slipping already, though, I can tell...I just used "ain't" and "reckon" in the same sentence .