Cold differentiation, fusion and stuff.

[fearless]

Cobra,

I don't know how to judge whether someone is differentiated or not.

Then how could you say in your previous post that you have never seen someone who is differentiated??

My "judgment" about differentiation is based on Lil's therapist's list of descriptions.

I also strongly suspect that some can be very differentiated in one situation and not in another. Also, this idea of differentiation does not apply very well to friendships. When I speak of differentiated people, I am speaking STRICTLY about LTR relationships, husbands and wives.

Actually the process of being a differentiated person should be seen in all relationships - work, friends, family and spouses. The people that I think are differentiated are that way in general and not according to specific situations. The people that I see that are enmeshed/fused types are that way in most of their relationships.

My personal belief about differentiation is that it is about the person and not the relationship. If you are differentiated, then a relationship cannot "make" you fused.

When it comes to my friends, I could say that I am perfectly differentiated too.

That is interesting and I would be curious to hear more about how your characterize your friendships and why it seems so much easier for you to be differentiated in friendships and why you see it as healthy for your friendships but not for your marriage.

What I mean is that for ME to give freely, I need to have some element of altruism, at least on a conscious level. Subconsciously I think we ALL expect something back in return, whether that is see the happiness in the other person, feeling appreciated by the other, or simply expecting something in return. If the latter, then I agree with you that the giving was not purely altruistic.

I still don't completely understand what you are saying and what you believe. Do you mean that it is impossible to give to another person without any expectation FROM ANOTHER PERSON? When I choose to give I give from my heart and release others from expectations. It is extremely freeing and satisfying to do.

Sure you might give in the short run without expecting return, but I’m willing to bet that even you will grow tired at some point of giving and giving and never getting anything in return. If what you say is true, why did you ever D?

We've been through this. I am divorced because my XH left me.

I gave and gave in the marriage and am totally at peace with my giving. Given the knowledge that I now have about his issues, I could have done more and behaved differently but that is hindsight and neither I nor my XH had that knowledge at the time. He doesn't blame me and I don't blame me either.

I think you take this a little to the extreme. She has lately been trying to talk to me more about her work, as her way of opening more communication. I listen to her and discuss things with her. But at some point I have enough.

I'm just trying to point out an opportunity for you. She obviously, to me, has a need to talk with you and yet that need is something you judge as problematic - too annoying, too gossipy, not useful, etc. MAYBE you both have some work you can do to continue this line of communication in a way that is satisfying and useful to both of you. It just strikes me that you talk so negatively about her issues and it seems like it is something that is important to her. Her decision to continue to talk to you even when you are obviously put off by her shows how much she values talking to you.

Dieda says the man's purpose is to gain success in order to share those gifts with his woman, who in turn inspires him to succeed and provide more. It has everything to do with Dieda.

I'm still not quite so sure about this definition and I'm not sure how wanting your wife to need you and providing for that need is "a la Dieda." But I admit I am still trying to figure Deida out.

Cobra - It comforts me to know that she has a need for me and that I can provide for that need (a la Dieda).

Fearless - There is some disconnect between your earlier comments about disliking your wife's need to complain AND your statement that you are comforted by being needed. I am just curious whether you see it as a disconnect.

Cobra - No. These are my needs. Where is the disconnect in that?

The disconnect for me is that you say you want your wife to need you and that you want to provide for that need YET when she vocalizes a need (such as talking about work albeit in a way you don't like) you choose to not provide for that need. So it appears to me that you have a need to be needed in a way that you choose??

Needless to say she has just a little bit of trauma in her background.

Yes and I would say way more than a little. That's good that you can look back and understand that your mom did the best she could given her circumstances.

And I think you are doing the best you can too. Just trying to encourage you to look at things from some different angles if possible.